New to Solar, advise needed please

[Veebee87]

Hi All.

I am currently building a new home and about 3 months away from moving in. I am looking to invest in a good system upfront and have this installed before moving in.

I have been in discussions with a few companies in Durban, but I feel the advise from them is not all that great.

The house will be a 450sqm, 4 bed, with a pool, home office and gym. Gas stove, heat pump for geyser and a heat pump for the pool. Aircons in all rooms.

We are a small family, 3 of the rooms will be used, and not more than 3 aircons will be used at the same time.

 

What would be the ideal system for this.

I was given the below as a guideline. I am just wondering if this is maybe an overkill ?

I was told that if we use the batteries everynight to run the house, on days with low sunlight we will use alot of Eskom to top up the batteries and thats going to cost us alot more in the long run.

I would really appreciate some input as this is quite a large investment and I need to be sure its done correctly.

 

2x8kw inverters, Deye or Sunsynk

26x500w black panels, has to be black due to estate rules.

6x5.5kw Hubble AM2 Li

Edited May 8, 2023 by Veebee87

[mzezman]

Hi and welcome to the forum and all the best with the house build

Its not all that easy to give you a spec if we don't know how much energy you will use - maybe if you could give us a view of what you currently use (per day and per month) that could be a starting point. 

We would also need to know the size and type of aircons (inverter vs non inverter?) as well as the heat pumps. And your typical energy usage profile, e.g. do you use more during the day, morning or at night? And is the expectation to NOT have to change your habits or are you open to changing them (can you do more washing etc during the day to take advantage of the PV?) otherwise how long is a piece of string basically

[Eurard]

23 minutes ago, mzezman said:

Hi and welcome to the forum and all the best with the house build

Its not all that easy to give you a spec if we don't know how much energy you will use - maybe if you could give us a view of what you currently use (per day and per month) that could be a starting point. 

We would also need to know the size and type of aircons (inverter vs non inverter?) as well as the heat pumps. And your typical energy usage profile, e.g. do you use more during the day, morning or at night? And is the expectation to NOT have to change your habits or are you open to changing them (can you do more washing etc during the day to take advantage of the PV?) otherwise how long is a piece of string basically

Agree 100% above.

 

Context, the solar journey is a change, on many fronts, and one is the way you use electricity.

If you want to not feel any change, then you go get a 500k system, etc, and this is mostly where the companies out there get you, they ask what your daily consumption is, and let us say 30kW, they will base everything off that and do overkill.

But 

If you say 20kW, then it starts changing the picture.

Now personally, from a 22kW daily (I know it is not that much compared to others), down to 10kW per day Utility power, the rest we get from Solar (Really not that much, we have a tiny solar output system currently), but more on timers and habits.

Geyser - We switch on and off for set periods, saved roughly half of what it used to be.

Essentials etc, if we dont use it we dont need it running 24/7, etc etc

Everything covered by over under etc breakers etc.

So to your question, if you are able to make some changes and then expand later, then go with where you need it, battery is always great, but not really great if you cant charge them back up.

From what you listed above, seems like you use a lot, which is fine, but keeping up with that habit does come with costs.

mzezman - Is correct, how long is that string? And what do you want that string to do?

[Bobster.]

2 hours ago, Veebee87 said:

I was told that if we use the batteries everynight to run the house, on days with low sunlight we will use alot of Eskom to top up the batteries and thats going to cost us alot more in the long run.

What's the brief you gave them? And what's your anticipated load? 

Something that many of us here have gone through is learning to manage loads. I try to do as much as possible whilst the sun is up. So water gets heated during the day (make sure your geyser is well insulated), the dishwasher and washing machine only get run during the day, pool pump only runs during the day etc. Then we sit with 300 to 170W at night, and a 10kWh battery easily gets us through the night with something to spare. 

On an overcast day (like today in Jhb, actually) I do have to use some grid power, but on a really bad day that's 70% of what I use.

We don't have aircons. 

There is no one right answer here, because every household's priorities and habits are different, but to maximise anything that is "solar", you need to do as much as possible during the day.

So I agree with @mzezman: Try to get an idea of how much power you use and when. If nothing else, take the last 3 months bills, add up the kWh (not the rands), and divide by 90.

If you can afford that system, it should give you a high level of protection (well... unless your useage is on the high side) . My system is serving me well, but I probably couldn't weather a combination of a multi-day outage AND simultaneous bad weather. IE I am not living off grid. With 33kWh of batteries (and the ability to charge them at a good rate), I wouldn't pay as much attention to ESP or the weather. Two inverters gives some rendundancy too. You want that lot in the garage or some other out bulding, because there will be fans whirring.

[GreenFields]

It would  be useful to know what you consider to be a priority, which devices you want backed up by battery and solar as your critical loads, and which systems you could live without in the event of loadshedding.

Let's say you can live without aircons and the pool heating and the pool pump for a few hours at a time, but you want the home office, plugs and the geyser's heat pump to be backed up. In this scenario you'd be only partially independent of Eskom, you'd be content to be still buying power from Eskom when it's available.

Personal take, high-level guesstimate without knowing more detail, is that a single 8kW Sunsynk or Deye with initially 8kW of panels and 2 Hubble batteries will get you some way as a core system, and you can choose to expand later and back more devices up with more batteries, a second inverter and more panels (if you leave the space for expansion). Perhaps once you've gathered more data of your actual power usage in the new home.

[Bobster.]

2 hours ago, Veebee87 said:

I have been in discussions with a few companies in Durban, but I feel the advise from them is not all that great.

It's difficult because when we start we don't know much. I wish I knew then what I do know now. But still, you can try to find out about the installers. Ask around, ask for references, ask for recommendations.

There will always be somebody who can do the job cheaper, but often that involves cutting corners. So ask about protection. Will they include surge protectors to protect the inverter? Will there be protection against lightning strikes? It's not small change you are spending, so spending a bit more to have it done properly makes sense. 

Also ask them about the location of the panels. Some new systems have gone up in my neighbourhood with south facing panels. I would bet that those guys are not enjoying the full benefits of solar power.

Try to get an idea of the after sales service they provide and how long they've been doing this. My installer was doing this pre lockdown, kept on going through the lockdown, and 3.5 years after installation still gave me support. Not for free, but still helped me out. So that's worth something too.

[Veebee87]

Thanks for the replies.

So at our current place, my statement is showing usage at 34kwh/day. But here we are still on an electric stove and use it a few times a day to prep kids meals etc. Then its the washing machine probably 6-8 times a week.

3 aircons in this place, 2x18000btu and 1x12000btu. 2 of the 3 get used for probably 12 hours a day total in summer.

Day useage is high, at night its just 1 AC in summer.

So its difficult to guess what it will be at the new place, but we are willing to change and adapt to the system like using the high draw appliances during peak hours only, skipping washing on cloudy days etc. The heat pump and pool pumps can be on a timer to be used only during peak sunlight hours.

So yes, we are open to change our way of living.

[Veebee87]

In terms of the installer I am leaning towards, they have done like 70% of the houses in the estate. Furthermore the developers are good friends and they have used these guys for personal work also, so it seems they have a good track record.

Its alot of cash to dump in, like R450k+ , so firstly want to make sure that the equipment being used is good. I know Deye is good, the solar panels are coming from Art Solar and the Hubble AM2 may be something to reconsider after reading many negatives about them.

Will it be better to get Pylon UP5000c or perhaps Sunsynk ?

[TestTube]

41 minutes ago, Veebee87 said:

Will it be better to get Pylon UP5000c or perhaps Sunsynk ?

Given your requirements, I'd much rather go with either 3x10kwh or 2x15.97kwh batteries - Sunsynk or Freedom Won. They are of course massive items but it's so much better with regards to installation of cables and communications. Freedom won actually recommends going with the larger batteries instead of multiple smaller ones. Price wise it might also be cheaper I think. Just my 2-pence.
EDIT: The Pylons are just plain Lithium Ion whereas the sunsynk and freedom wons are LiFePo4 technology batteries. I choose the latter for safety reasons. YMMV.

Edited May 9, 2023 by TestTube
EDIT.

[Veebee87]

6 minutes ago, TestTube said:

Given your requirements, I'd much rather go with either 3x10kwh or 2x15.97kwh batteries - Sunsynk or Freedom Won. They are of course massive items but it's so much better with regards to installation of cables and communications. Freedom won actually recommends going with the larger batteries instead of multiple smaller ones. Price wise it might also be cheaper I think. Just my 2-pence.
EDIT: The Pylons are just plain Lithium Ion whereas the sunsynk and freedom wons are LiFePo4 technology batteries. I choose the latter for safety reasons. YMMV.

 

Thank you, I was thinking that also. I will look into 2 or 3 bigger batteries.

[Scorp007]

2 hours ago, Veebee87 said:

 

Thank you, I was thinking that also. I will look into 2 or 3 bigger batteries.

Many points have been covered. Just ensure you choose inverter aircons for their reduced and kinder starting power when on battery power. Also they use less during running. 

It might assist to get a Kill-o-watt meter so that you can for instance measure what power items like aircon, washing machine per cycle and fridges are using per 24h.

Try and record the actual readings and keep a log of them. This way you can build up info of time of use and be helpful. It is really the after sunset kWh per day that is important to guesstimate battery requirements. 

[Veebee87]

57 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

Many points have been covered. Just ensure you choose inverter aircons for their reduced and kinder starting power when on battery power. Also they use less during running. 

It might assist to get a Kill-o-watt meter so that you can for instance measure what power items like aircon, washing machine per cycle and fridges are using per 24h.

Try and record the actual readings and keep a log of them. This way you can build up info of time of use and be helpful. It is really the after sunset kWh per day that is important to guesstimate battery requirements. 

 

cool thanks.

the only big stuff that will be running at night is max 2 aircons [1x18000 and 1x12000] during summer and a fridge and deep freezer.

all outdoor lights etc will be solar spots.

[mzezman]

2 hours ago, Veebee87 said:

 

cool thanks.

the only big stuff that will be running at night is max 2 aircons [1x18000 and 1x12000] during summer and a fridge and deep freezer.

all outdoor lights etc will be solar spots.

Fridge and freezer are negligible if they were bought recently and are A rated 

18000btu inverter will run you approx 1.5-2kWh if working hard 

[WannabeSolarSparky]

On 2023/05/08 at 1:57 PM, Veebee87 said:

2x8kw inverters, Deye or Sunsynk

26x500w black panels, has to be black due to estate rules.

6x5.5kw Hubble AM2 Li

For a system this large and Bang for buck and simpler installation I would personally go for a high voltage system:
FoxESS 10.5kW IP65 High Voltage x2 ( Will handle those aircons like they not even there )
Fox ECS HV ECM2800, 16.59kWh ( 1x Master 5x Slave ) X2
And bonus is you can have your panels wired to 8 separate strings so can use all available roof orientations

[Veebee87]

14 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

For a system this large and Bang for buck and simpler installation I would personally go for a high voltage system:
FoxESS 10.5kW IP65 High Voltage x2 ( Will handle those aircons like they not even there )
Fox ECS HV ECM2800, 16.59kWh ( 1x Master 5x Slave ) X2
And bonus is you can have your panels wired to 8 separate strings so can use all available roof orientations

seems the Fox set up would be about R36k more than what I have been quoted on the Deye + Hubble.

But already not happy as they quoted on Hubble AM2...

What is the local back up and aftersales support like with Fox ?  I just need to find someone in Durban who supplies or is happy to work with them.

[WannabeSolarSparky]

45 minutes ago, Veebee87 said:

seems the Fox set up would be about R36k more than what I have been quoted on the Deye + Hubble.

But already not happy as they quoted on Hubble AM2...

What is the local back up and aftersales support like with Fox ?  I just need to find someone in Durban who supplies or is happy to work with them.

Fox ESS is one of the largest renewable energy companies in the world
Thier Head Office of the Fox ESS Distributers in SA is in Cape Town, they should be able to hook you up with their installers in Durban.
https://msolarpower.co.za/
 

Edited May 10, 2023 by WannabeSolarSparky

[Chris_S]

On 2023/05/08 at 1:57 PM, Veebee87 said:

Hi All.

I am currently building a new home and about 3 months away from moving in. I am looking to invest in a good system upfront and have this installed before moving in.

I have been in discussions with a few companies in Durban, but I feel the advise from them is not all that great.

The house will be a 450sqm, 4 bed, with a pool, home office and gym. Gas stove, heat pump for geyser and a heat pump for the pool. Aircons in all rooms.

We are a small family, 3 of the rooms will be used, and not more than 3 aircons will be used at the same time.

 

What would be the ideal system for this.

I was given the below as a guideline. I am just wondering if this is maybe an overkill ?

I was told that if we use the batteries everynight to run the house, on days with low sunlight we will use alot of Eskom to top up the batteries and thats going to cost us alot more in the long run.

I would really appreciate some input as this is quite a large investment and I need to be sure its done correctly.

 

2x8kw inverters, Deye or Sunsynk

26x500w black panels, has to be black due to estate rules.

6x5.5kw Hubble AM2 Li

I would do the 2x8kw sunsynk's and 26 panels but never the 6 hubble batteries. 

I would start with 2x 10kwh batteries. Sunsynk or freedom won. 

If you need more batteries it's easy to add more. 

That should drop the cost closer to 300-350k

[FixAMess]

On 2023/05/09 at 2:39 PM, TestTube said:

The Pylons are just plain Lithium Ion whereas the sunsynk and freedom wons are LiFePo4 technology

Are you sure about that?  There are no pure li fe batteries that I know of, they're all lifepo4.

Pylontechs are good batteries, C/2, built for 6000 cycles, 90% DoD, tested by AU testing facility and come out top of the pops.

[Veebee87]

So some feedback on the Fox, I have been quoted R500k for 2 x 10.5 inverters, 24 x JA 540w panels and total of 28kw battery storage. 2 x master 4.7kw and 4 x secondary 4.7kw.

Install etc for tile roof.

What do you guys think ?

My only other comparison at this level is 2xDeye 8kw, 26x500w Art Solar panels and 6 x Hubble AM2 which comes to R470k.

[craig shaw]

did you do that system?

i am looking at deye 20kw 3phase HV plus 24-28 panels and a deye bos 4x5,1kwh batts (to get to 204V)