I have an RCT-AXPERT MX2 TWIN inverter. I'd like to add PV. My roof space is small, I never intend to export to the grid. Am I going to have an issue registering my solar application with the COCT - I don't see any RCT/axpert inverters on their approved list. But if I understand correctly, the approved list only counts if you intend to export to the grid?

From the first of October CoCT will treat all applications as grid-tied, i.e. from then onwards your inverter will have to be on the list of approved inverters.

You've therefore got two weeks to file an application to add solar panels to your existing inverter under the "Passive Standby UPS utilised as a standby hybrid SSE" installation type. If you fail to do this now, you will not be able to (legally) add panels to it later.

Edited September 16, 20232 yr by PierreJ

Here is the notification CoCT sent out a week ago:

Edited September 16, 20232 yr by PierreJ

What a tragedy & short sighted view point...

Moronic, spiteful, short-sighted, self-important, anti-competitive, power-grabbing. Just stating the obvious, this pushes the entry-level for a backup system to around R20K-R25K for a 48V grid-tied hybrid inverter, plus another R25K-R30K for a suitable matching battery. They are basically forcing more people to sit without power when perfectly good cheaper off-grid inverter solutions exist, destroying livelihoods in the process.

Interesting that they say that this is a national requirement. 

This may be true and lots of us are going to find ourselves in jail. Or it may be buck passing: "it's not us, it's that nasty government". 

I would bet that they've had to deal with a number of cases where there have been arguments about what is or isn't grid-tied, or there's been cases where folks install a non-approved inverter as the heart of a backup system, then add panels later. But if an inverter can't feed back, it can't feed back. Sure it's connected to the grid, but it already was. 

They think that because it's NRS approved it safer. 

For to long all sorts of legislation enforced by government that is not constitutional and legal take for instance the E toll system in Gauteng it was upheld in court to be illegal and unconstitutional without public consent and input, but again they are at it. Like Bobster said if it can't feed back to the grid what is the problem? No Voltronic unit has any output on the input side at any stage in islanding and for the safety argument that is the reason for having it signed off and COC issued.

 

They think that because it's NRS approved it safer. 

I think their concern, and I think it's legitimate, is about what's connected to their grid. How then do they reassure themselves about the suitability of any particular inverter? They pick a standard (hopefully on advice from qualified folks) and say as long as your inverter meets that standard, and is properly installed, all is well.

The standard ultimately is likely based on an EU standard, where the market is bigger and legislation encourages manufacturers to submit their product for testing.

Says me, who has zero paperwork to show that my inverter is on the list (it is) and is properly installed (as far as I know it is, but there was never any approval/certification process because COJ then didn't require it.)

 

 

For to long all sorts of legislation enforced by government that is not constitutional and legal take for instance the E toll system in Gauteng it was upheld in court to be illegal and unconstitutional without public consent and input, but again they are at it. Like Bobster said if it can't feed back to the grid what is the problem? No Voltronic unit has any output on the input side at any stage in islanding and for the safety argument that is the reason for having it signed off and COC issued.

I do think they should have a list of inverters that CANNOT feed back and a way of accommodating them, but that still means testing and certification, and if COCT had the facility and budget for that, they wouldn't be piggy backing on somebody else's standard.

That said, they can say to importers, YOU get the certification. That's the cost to you of getting the go-ahead in COCT. 

But in many ways I am the Devil's advocate here. I think that cities and ESKOM do have a legitimate interest in what is connected to their grid.

I am waiting for the storm to break in Johannesburg when they realise how much solar is installed and how most of it has no certification, may not be properly installed, and certainly was not approved. That's largely their own fault for publishing such vague regulations. It seems that they subscribe to what COCT is doing, but have never actually written it into regulations. They have a domestic resellers tariff, but the qualification and approval process for that is unclear (it's unclear if there are even are such processes), and so if they decide to start implementing regulations they are going to find a large, unregulated mess already in place.

In saying that, I don't' cast aspersions on the installers in Johannesburg. Most of them will have been conscientious and concerned about safety and code compliance. BUT equally there are people who have gone to various stores, bought some bits and done it themselves, and there are lot of householders who never even thought of such matters, who signed up with one of these rental companies. Is the City going to give an amnesty to all systems in place by a certain date? Are they going to send engineers out to check all those systems to make sure that basic safety issues are taken care of? Already I am hearing anecdotal reports of the City or, more likely, their contractors simply disconnecting houses that go onto solar, probably because nobody knows what the heck is going on and what the regulations are. 

My own system is on COCT's list (which COJ say they agree with and are aligned with), and it's set to not export. But that setting can be very easily changed using an app on my phone. So should I be moved to the reseller's tariff? I COULD resell. It makes no sense to, but technically it could be done*. Is it properly installed? I have no reason to believe otherwise, but I can't prove it.

This is a conundrum for ESKOM and the Cities. And, potentially, for home owners.


* my system actually does export a little each day, despite settings. This depletes the credit balance on my pre-paid meter, so it punishes me to export. But technically I could do it, and the technical standards and billing are too separate issues.
 

The hilarious thing is that Phocos is also OEM Voltronics & is Grid interactive. So the OG7.2 & 10 & others have the capabilities it just not setup to do so from the firmware/ Software. This is exactly how it does it's Blending of power sources. The Phocos is, however, very expensive for a Voltronics. 

In my opinion & it's a humble one, The City of Cape Town take this too far. They can't dictate how you keep the lights on, especially when it cant Grid tie. 

They basically dictating what appliance you have. Because this is connected like an appliance. It plugs into the grid & cannot interact anymore than a fridge can. Now unless a fridge is interactive then I'm sorry their ignorance is potentially cutting ppl off. 

Edited September 17, 20232 yr by Steve87

I'm hoping they'll reconsider their lack of insight. Surely an off-grid inverter is the least risk to the grid. 

 

For to long all sorts of legislation enforced by government that is not constitutional and legal take for instance the E toll system in Gauteng it was upheld in court to be illegal and unconstitutional without public consent and input, but again they are at it. Like Bobster said if it can't feed back to the grid what is the problem? No Voltronic unit has any output on the input side at any stage in islanding and for the safety argument that is the reason for having it signed off and COC issued.

They primed for change, makes a person wonder if the type of expertise in that office...The E tolls was not obeyed by many, however, cape town ppl seem to be more obedient. 

 

I'm hoping they'll reconsider their lack of insight. Surely an off-grid inverter is the least risk to the grid. 

How much do you think Geordin Hill-Lewis knows about such things? Or the relevant MMC? They will have just consulted with (hopefully) engineers and/or other experts and interest groups, heard a whole lot of stuff they don't understand and then said "oh.. that sounds like the way we should go". 

I don't want to be unkind, but really, we don't elect these people for their engineering skills.

This all has more to do with revenue protection than safety.
Look at the bigger picture at play here...
Eskom fails to provide adequate power, citizens then make their own plan, result: less revenue for eskom and especially the municipalities.
They cannot or do not want to employ enough admin staff to handle the massive amount of applications, so they resort to weird rules to slow down the rate of applications.

Up until very recently everything after the meter has been the realm of the electrical and building codes and you could do whatever you liked as long as it was safe and certified with a valid coc.
Generators and ups systems have always been allowed as long as sans specs were followed and signed off. No PERMISSION required.

These rules (they are rules NOT laws) will backfire somewhere along the way.

1 - people will simply start "breaking the law" we mostly have no reliable power provided to us
2 - people with money will simply rewire their houses to have 2 circuits one "belonging to the municiplaity" and another backup circuit totally off grid.
3 - legal court challenges ( these weird rules are after all the only of it's kind in the world AFAIK )

4 - Direction I am headed with many of my clients. See what they say about inverter trollies "they consider them to be electrical appliances" i.e. UPS SYSTEMS = Electrical appliances, they are allowed as long as they plug in to a certified ( COC) regular wall socket. I have designed a solution for my clients/friends/family to comply with their stupid rules

So again, no matter what rules they make, they are going to lose revenues.
 

 

I'm hoping they'll reconsider their lack of insight. Surely an off-grid inverter is the least risk to the grid. 

with a valid coc - agreed yes

The inverter community/installers should take the CoCT to court...Now that will be interesting. 

 addressed the issue already in my topic CAPETOWN NEW RULING.

In the mean time I addressed them the following comment:

Just received the announcement of new ruling for approval of solar systems going onto effect by 1. October 2023. The context is to simplify and accelerate the approval process before installation. This is positive and welcome.

However from October 2023 Standby systems, we call them Off grid systems, shall no longer be allowed. That to me is bad news. The simpler, safer because no back-feed into the grid, less problematic, less expensive systems shall be prohibited! It revolts me. I operate now a 10kW Off-grid system for over 3 years in my home and would not want anything else.

As much as you cannot ban simple UPS systems, you cannot ban Standby systems, since Standby systems are basically and hardware wise UPS systems with a solar battery charger added.

Another thought: With more and more people going solar and installing only grid-tied systems, the grid will reach the situation where it will no longer be able to accept additional grid-tied solar systems. With a ban on Standby systems that would mean no more solar systems at all allowed. That would not be acceptable. It would be much more logic to ban the Grid-tied systems.

I plan to install a solar system on our rental property in Parklands but will definitely not install a Grid-tied system.

 

I'm looking forward to their response.

 

Perhaps it would be an idea that a lot of people write such comment to them - create a shitstorm. [email protected]  

 

Edited September 17, 20232 yr by Beat

 

This all has more to do with revenue protection than safety.
Look at the bigger picture at play here...
Eskom fails to provide adequate power, citizens then make their own plan, result: less revenue for eskom and especially the municipalities.
They cannot or do not want to employ enough admin staff to handle the massive amount of applications, so they resort to weird rules to slow down the rate of applications.

Up until very recently everything after the meter has been the realm of the electrical and building codes and you could do whatever you liked as long as it was safe and certified with a valid coc.
Generators and ups systems have always been allowed as long as sans specs were followed and signed off. No PERMISSION required.

 

The key difference is those systems didn't feed back into the grid (or if they did, they went bang). The ability to feed back is the game changer. Even if you don't feed back then that still, as you say, reduces revenues. I get that. But that doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate technical concerns. Both things can be true. 

Is anyone able to point me in the right direction.

I would like to apply for permission to install PV - as I understand it, you're supposed to apply for permission FIRST. So, my intention is to send my application for my off-grid tied inverter before 1 October (and then install PV at a later stage once approval comes through). How do I go about this - could anyone share a link for the "Passive Standby UPS utilised as a standby hybrid SSE" installation type, please?

Edited September 18, 20232 yr by Boomer

 

From the first of October CoCT will treat all applications as grid-tied, i.e. from then onwards your inverter will have to be on the list of approved inverters.

You've therefore got two weeks to file an application to add solar panels to your existing inverter under the "Passive Standby UPS utilised as a standby hybrid SSE" installation type. If you fail to do this now, you will not be able to (legally) add panels to it later.

How do I do this - could you share the link, please and thank you  

 

How do I do this - could you share the link, please and thank you  

I posted it in the thread "Cape Town new ruling: https://www.capetown.gov.za/Family and home/Greener-living/Saving-electricity-at-home/going-solar

I'm sure you will find there all you need.

 

 

I plan to install a solar system on our rental property in Parklands but will definitely not install a Grid-tied system.

 

 

 

Are these "rules" applicable to Parklands though? COCT seems to be steering the ship off a cliff but Parklands and surrounds is not on COCT but Eskom. That's been my only consolation all along. Eskom and their incompetence can't steer any thing anywhere and will turn a blind eye, indefinitely I hope, to it all 😄

 

Are these "rules" applicable to Parklands though? COCT seems to be steering the ship off a cliff but Parklands and surrounds is not on COCT but Eskom. That's been my only consolation all along. Eskom and their incompetence can't steer any thing anywhere and will turn a blind eye, indefinitely I hope, to it all 😄

Not currently applicable to Parklands, it is an eskom service area.
I am here in Parklands too and dread the day the coct take over the supply Eskom supply is a lot cheaper than the coct supply.
Coct is in negotiations with eskom to take over everything in WC. I will be vocal when I attend their public consultations when the time arrives as I have no interest in being forced to pay their draconian fees and abide by their draconian rules.

Edited September 18, 20232 yr by WannabeSolarSparky

 

Not currently applicable to Parklands, it is an eskom service area.

That's the good news to me.🙂