Why do you like INFINISOLAR?

 

 

@Blinkwater9

if you need to have 10kVA of power, then it will be a decent system with a bunch of solar panels and a truckload of batteries. In other words, such equipment will not be cheap at all and there's a risk of purchasing something that will not really suit your needs. Forum is great, but I would advice you to also visit some other solar owners from your area and have a face-to-face chat about their experiences.

Speaking of InifiniSolar, I have two units in my off-grid system, together with 72 panels, 20kWp total: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2322-youdas-off-grid-lab/

It works great and is really powerfull, but bear in mind that InfiniSolar has a much higher self-consumption than Victron, Studer or even Axpert inverters. Also the fans are pretty loud, so it's not a good candidate for a bedroom-installation

 

15 minutes ago, Mistral said:

Why do you like INFINISOLAR?

 

 

Please remember, I am also still considering which inverter will best suit my needs?

Everyone seems to be of the opinion, that the weakest link in this equipment list, is the inverter. Best advice seems to be, to rather spend a little more now, than to have to replace sooner than anticipated?

I generally tend to try not to purchase a product, that is already obsolete elsewhere, and simply available because a supplier was unable to sell all his stock, before the manufacturer offered a newer version. VOLTRONIC for arguement, has a large selection of different models available, and most of the ones I seem to like, are not available locally?  

I am not interested in feeding back into the grid, but I want my inverter to be able to use multiple sources simultaneously? I am not sure of all the technical terminology here, but I need the unit to supply my load, using the PV available, and then add any additional shortfall required, from either the grid or the batteries? Some of the AXPERT inverters on offer, only operate as a UPS would, and would shift the entire load back to the grid, should the PV not provide enough power? Obviously, setup would play a big part here, but the functionality needs to be there to begin with?

I want to be sure, that the inverter also has the PARRALLEL feature too? Some of the models DON"T offer this feature? 

Then the software available also needs to be compatible with the unit? I have seen YOUTUBE vids, of guys using a software package called SOLARPOWER from voltronic, which seems to be an advanced version of WATCHPOWER? This I have not been able to confirm as yet? I found a link for the SOLARPOWER Software download, but I cannot seem to get the files to open after unzipping them? Maybe some here with more hands on experience can offer some comment as what software will work on the AXPERT/INFINISOLAR inverters? The SOLARPOWER software seems to have way more functionality settings that one can access when setting the inverter up?

From what I have read when comparing features, the VMII/VMIII and INFINISOLAR version are similar, with the INFINISOLAR having the added feature of being BI-DIRECTIONAL?

Hopefully, by discussing these issues here, I can also get more information, helping me to make the best choice possible?

 

 

Best advice seems to be, to rather spend a little more now, than to have to replace sooner than anticipated?

Good point.

I have seen YOUTUBE vids, of guys using a software package called SOLARPOWER from voltronic, which seems to be an advanced version of WATCHPOWER? This I have not been able to confirm as yet?

WatchPower is a PC software for Axpert product line.
SolarPower is a PC software for InfiniSolar product line.
Since InfiniSolar has much more options and operational modes than Axpert, the SolarPower software is more sophisticated.

 

@Blinkwater9 Let me have a silly question - do you plan to undergo all the necessary procedures and want to have your system approved by authority, with the ability to feed-in to the grid? I got that you don't want to feed-in, but this does not rule-out that you might be formally allowed to do so.

@Mistral the Mecer and RTC brands are both from Voltronic to my knowledge as Rectron, who sells RTC, is owned by Mustek. Both inverters  appear to be from hell as far as C of CT is concerned. But lately it would seem that Victron owners,  the Blue  Brigade,  who have extolled the superiority of their equipment, also have problems with CofCT approvals. Something to do with change-over switches. Victron is unquestionably of outstanding quality but at a price.

I have 2 Proline inverters in series and a while ago one failed after more than a year. It was repaired free of charge in a short while by Pinnacle who unfortunately do not sell the inverters any longer. I guess  they are genuine Voltronics as I reflashed with all versions of @Coulomb and @weber firmware as it became available. 

Perhaps you should also look at Goodwe which seems to satisfy CofCT and is high quality, albeit about twice the price of Mecer/RTC. 

If you based your first proposal of Axpert and Solis combination as was proposed by Marius Fourie in his YouTube video, that would probably be acceptable but if the grid fails during sunshine hours, you will also loose solar power. 

 

Many thanks!

Why do you rate Goodwe as high quality?

34 minutes ago, Youda said:

WatchPower is a PC software for Axpert product line.
SolarPower is a PC software for InfiniSolar product line.
Since InfiniSolar has much more options and operational modes than Axpert, the SolarPower software is more sophisticated.

 

I suspected something like this? Thanks.

36 minutes ago, Youda said:

@Blinkwater9 Let me have a silly question - do you plan to undergo all the necessary procedures and want to have your system approved by authority, with the ability to feed-in to the grid? I got that you don't want to feed-in, but this does not rule-out that you might be formally allowed to do so.

Where we live(St Helena Bay) the local council doesn't seem to know what they are doing themselves, let alone the residents? We were required to register our boreholes, when the water restrictions were imposed to prevent day-zero. When I approached our local municipality to register my borehole, their response was that they would need to send the CITY ENGINEER out to see me, as they had no idea what I talking about? LMAO. Incidentally, the alternative water source, has been in full use now for almost 2 years, my municipal water consumption has been 0-liters in the same period, and I had no response 

As far as SOLAR LEGISLATION, I will simply carry on as I see fit, and I tend to over-engineer everything, until they contact me.

There are also warnings on the MPP SOLAR website of a cheap copy of the VOLTRONICS products, called MUST POWER or MUST UPS? 

Maybe this is karma catching up with CHINA? LOL. They have a tendency to copy anything?

Similar here in Europe

Okay, so if that's the case then keep in mind that the problem with ALL hybrid inverters is, that they are feeding-in back to the grid. Some of the hybrids are able to limit this feed-in somehow, but none can achieve a true zero. As a limiting device a CT clamps are being used, sometimes a separate modbus meter like Eastron or Carlo Gavazzi.

For a shame, some power spikes will eventually make it to the grid and your power meter will trip, or register this event. There's no 100% defense against that. Yes, you can run your hybrid electrically disconnected from the grid, but in that case you must have enormous batteries and truckload of solar panels. And - by running the hybrid disconnected, you are basically wasting half of the inverter's capabilites. Technically, you are making an Axpert from your InfiniSolar...

I'm running my system disconnected from the grid and for 11 months of the year, it's perfect. But when the snowfall starts it's a pain-in-the-ass and I have to switch back to grid for a day or two, at least.

1) If you are okay with running the hybrid in the mentioned off-grid mode, go for 2x InfiniSolar Super 4KW or 2x InfiniSolar Plus 5KW. Both support single phase, have built-in MPPTs and you can parallel more units together. They are loud, and have a bit high self-consumption.

2) The best option (in SA) is to go for 2x Victron Multiplus 5000VA. Costly, but silent and parallelable. You will need to buy essentials like CCGX or VenusGX etc. Needs to buy a separate set of MPPT charge controllers, too. The self-consumption of Victron equipment is very low, so you will spare some money on batteries.

3) If you want to start in a cheapest way, then go for 2x Axpert MKS 5K. Cheap, parallelable, flexible but a pure off-grid inverter.

4) A special choice is 2x Axpert King 5KVA. Cheap, parallelable. It's an off-grid inverter, but can top-up batteries continuously from the grid. Because of that, you can mix the solar power with the grid power. It's a very interesting device, with it's philosophy totally different from all the other devices. If you are interested, just ask some of the owners on the forum.

 

Based on my experience, and the needs that you've mentioned, the above options are the only ones that are making sense for you.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Youda said:

Similar here in Europe

Okay, so if that's the case then keep in mind that the problem with ALL hybrid inverters is, that they are feeding-in back to the grid. Some of the hybrids are able to limit this feed-in somehow, but none can achieve a true zero. As a limiting device a CT clamps are being used, sometimes a separate modbus meter like Eastron or Carlo Gavazzi.

For a shame, some power spikes will eventually make it to the grid and your power meter will trip, or register this event. There's no 100% defense against that. Yes, you can run your hybrid electrically disconnected from the grid, but in that case you must have enormous batteries and truckload of solar panels. And - by running the hybrid disconnected, you are basically wasting half of the inverter's capabilites. Technically, you are making an Axpert from your InfiniSolar...

I'm running my system disconnected from the grid and for 11 months of the year, it's perfect. But when the snowfall starts it's a pain-in-the-ass and I have to switch back to grid for a day or two, at least.

1) If you are okay with running the hybrid in the mentioned off-grid mode, go for 2x InfiniSolar Super 4KW or 2x InfiniSolar Plus 5KW. Both support single phase, have built-in MPPTs and you can parallel more units together. They are loud, and have a bit high self-consumption.

2) The best option (in SA) is to go for 2x Victron Multiplus 5000VA. Costly, but silent and parallelable. You will need to buy essentials like CCGX or VenusGX etc. Needs to buy a separate set of MPPT charge controllers, too. The self-consumption of Victron equipment is very low, so you will spare some money on batteries.

3) If you want to start in a cheapest way, then go for 2x Axpert MKS 5K. Cheap, parallelable, flexible but a pure off-grid inverter.

4) A special choice is 2x Axpert King 5KVA. Cheap, parallelable. It's an off-grid inverter, but can top-up batteries continuously from the grid. Because of that, you can mix the solar power with the grid power. It's a very interesting device, with it's philosophy totally different from all the other devices. If you are interested, just ask some of the owners on the forum.

 

Based on my experience, and the needs that you've mentioned, the above options are the only ones that are making sense for you.

 

 

 

Youda, thank you. I appreciate this advice. 

Just a quick question? Do the inverters in a parrallel setup need to be the same size(Kva)? Can you for example, start with a 4kva, and then add a 5kva later? Or do the inverters need to be matched?

Sorry Mistral?? Hope I'm not hijacking your post here?

1 minute ago, Blinkwater9 said:

Youda, thank you. I appreciate this advice. 

Just a quick question? Do the inverters in a parrallel setup need to be the same size(Kva)? Can you for example, start with a 4kva, and then add a 5kva later? Or do the inverters need to be matched?

Another benifit of the INFINISOLAR INVERTERS is i may not be interested in feeding back to grid now? But this may change if conitions in the grid change? Or legislation regarding this changes?

Inverters type and rating have to be matched. Even the firmware version has to be the same.
FW can be updated anytime, but you should start with a unit type that you will continue buying in the future.

9 minutes ago, Blinkwater9 said:

Another benifit of the INFINISOLAR INVERTERS is i may not be interested in feeding back to grid now? But this may change if conitions in the grid change? Or legislation regarding this changes?

Yes, that's basically the only valid reason why to go for InfiniSolar and not for Axpert. But check the price difference and estimate whether it's acceptable for you. I personally went that way, but can't just blindly give the same advice to the others. At the end of the day, you are the only one who knows EXACTLY what situation you're in

Edited April 19, 20197 yr by Youda

No hijack - this is all good info.

Thanks Youda

 

Is InfiniSolar higher quality than Axpert?

If I install a hybrid inverter without batteries - just using the solar and grid.

Let's say grid is down and solar is nil or too little for the load?

is this dangerous? Would it work. I am not concerned with load shedding at present.

My aim is to use solar during the day and grid at night if it is available.

From a cost point of view I would prefer to install lithiums later if need be. 

 

Edited April 19, 20197 yr by Mistral

On 2019/04/19 at 6:19 PM, Blinkwater9 said:

I want to be sure, that the inverter also has the PARRALLEL feature too? Some of the models DON"T offer this feature? 

Yes. Some don't parallel, because they have small processors without enough RAM and enough horsepower. In general, the VM series (VM II, VM III) are Value models (the M is for MPPT, the VP series are Value PWM models); the Value models can't be paralleled.

Paralleling is a little tricky. If you have identical firmware in both inverters, they will probably parallel, but it doesn't have to be identical firmware. For example, you can parallel firmware versions 72.70 (e.g. on an old PF0.8 5 kVA / 4 kW model) with firmware version 74.10 on a newer PF1.0 model (5 kVA / 5 kW). I have a post on parallel compatibility.

It turns out that 72.60 will parallel with 73.00 but neither of those will parallel with 72.70. I suspect that most people at Voltronic Power, MPP Solar, and the resellers don't know this. At least, it's safe to try; if the inverters and their firmwares aren't compatible, they'll just throw up fault code 71 (error 71). But by then, it's a major hassle to swap to the right inverter(s).

Edited May 14, 20197 yr by Coulomb

1 hour ago, Youda said:

FW can be updated anytime

Only if you can locate the correct firmware update files, or get them from your reseller. For some inverter models, you can get the files from this forum or from the AEVA PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS topic (see index in the first post). But for many inverters, these files don't exist.

Firmware update files were freely available for a time, until the advent of the clones.

2 hours ago, Blinkwater9 said:

There are also warnings on the MPP SOLAR website of a cheap copy of the VOLTRONICS products, called MUST POWER or MUST UPS? 

It's a minefield. See my post Do I Own a Clone (oh moan!). But if you stick to local (to South Africa) brands like Mecer or RCT, you should be fine.

21 minutes ago, Mistral said:

No hijack - this is all good info.

Thanks Youda

 

Is InfiniSolar higher quality than Axpert?

If I install a hybrid inverter without batteries - just using the solar and grid.

Let's say grid is down and solar is nil or too little for the load?

is this dangerous? Would it work. I am not concerned with load shedding at present.

My aim is to use solar during the day and grid at night if it is available.

From a cost point of view I would prefer to install lithiums later if need be. 

 

 

Is InfiniSolar higher quality than Axpert?

The manufacturer is the same. Same is the "technical support"....that is basically non-existent. An OEM with the best reputation and a working technical support is the MPP Solar. So, buy the equipment from a trusted local reseller and if you want to buy direct, then go for MPP Solar, I would say. From a technical point of view, there's a couple of nice treats tied to Inifini when compared to Axpert:

• better cooling
• hybrid (vs off-grid)
• MC4 input connectors (instead of plain screw terminals that are on Axperts)
• built-in high-voltage DC switch for a safe disconnection of solar panels (instead of hardwiring that is used on Axperts)
• higher voltage MPPT

Subjectively, it looks like InfiniSolar is a premium line, but I can't confirm whether the quality of the internal IGBTs or capacitors is fundamentally different. I would say that it's something like a difference between Mercedes C and E-classe: both cars can run 200 km/h, but when you're sitting in the E-classe, you feel better

If I install a hybrid inverter without batteries - just using the solar and grid. Let's say grid is down and solar is nil or too little for the load? is this dangerous? Would it work. I am not concerned with load shedding at present.

Yes, some of the Axperts and Infinis can run without battery, but there's a ton of limitations in this mode. For example, cannot parallel, grid must be online or the load has to be stable and WAY smaller then the solar power available. Everytime, you have to double-check the selected model and dig all it's limitations in the battery-less mode from the manual. Long story short, it's not a good idea. Put a small lithium pack, or a big old cheap Lead Acid battery to it, at least. Following the purchase, you can set the device to the battery-less mode and try it out, but be prepared that you won't be really satisfied with the results.

Hmm, did I wrote "Mercedes"!?

I was meaning "Huyndai"...of course

 

Thanks sounds like I have to go Pylons now.

1 hour ago, Coulomb said:

Paralleling is a little tricky

So I get this complaint from a customer. He's got two inverters in parallel and it is not working correctly. The system is always drawing about 30% of the power from the grid even with ample battery and PV available. When he removes one of the inverters and run on just one, the problem goes away.

We throw the data into a spreadsheet and plot the grid input vs consumption: Yes, it's a nice 30:70 split, more or less constant. Go into the lab, chat to a hardware engineer, even set up a demo to test it out, but then the hardware guy says the one thing that makes the penny drop so hard that it practically made a mental dent: The slave follows the master exactly down to the PWM modulation of the AC output.

That means if you have different impedance from the output of the unit to the common point, whichever inverter has the higher impedance connection will make less power (cause it is running at the same PWM ratios). If this is the master, a percentage of power is fed into the grid (cause the slave makes more power than the controlling unit), and if it is the slave a percentage of power comes from the grid.

So yes... paralleling is tricky... but it is also bleedingly simple!

5 hours ago, Mistral said:

Why do you like INFINISOLAR?

 

 

I've found mine to be very versatile - it just effortlessly pushes power around - panels to batteries, essential and grid.  Panels plus a bit of battery to essentials, batteries to grid - whatever you want... 

Better than Goodwe?