Don Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 That is not bad TTT. You are doing well. I have been welding most of the day in the garage or busy with the angle grinder. With lots of clouds my load has been all over the show today. I think I have been more on batteries than on solar for the day. I need some control to cut certain loads automatically if I don't have solar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Don said: That is not bad TTT. You are doing well. To note, I do not have any software managing it. no AICC, ICC nor SolWEB. Only use the BMV's relay to trigger the switching to and from Eskom ... mmmm, technically it is software ne, BMV software. Been like that since wot, 2011-2012 till today. System has paid for itself a long time ago I recon, not that I bothered to keep numbers for some was 2nd hand, parts donated not forgetting the fact that at first it was a need which then became a hobby and today it is just there because ... it still works. Once I have the BMV software sorted, ja, then I will rely on external software, I recon the numbers will be consistently high pushing the 930w as hard as the sun allows. I never bothered until @Chris Hobson recently showed interest in the performance of such a small system constantly at near max. So I though, aha, maybe I can use this to show what @plonkster and I are always on about by demonstrating on PVO how best to kill those constant small kWh usage using a small system, obviously at a much lower investment, by pushing said system to run at near or max performance all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: kill those constant small kWh usage using a small system, obviously at a much lower investment, by pushing said system to run at near or max performance all the time. Now that I added an extra 400W (more about that later), I can pretty much run solely from solar between 9AM and 5PM... except for the pesky tumble dryer. So today (since 9AM) I used a grand total of 2.5kwh from the grid, and almost 6kwh from PV. Also, right now (at 6PM) I still have the grid meter at zero: I'm discharging the batteries at 200W and still making around 300W on my North-West facing array. I'm doing this with a measly 1.6kva inverter, running at 1300VA when the tumble dryer is running (but the TD is 2200W, hence the grid usage). So, about the slightly odd 400W number. I bought 3 x 320W panels from Mike. They stood around in the guest room for a few weeks, and then we had actual human guests so I had to get them out of there. By that time I had the frame finished, so I put two of them on the roof: Disconnected. It took me another two weeks to get the rest of the stuff done, so as of last weekend I could start using the power. Only, the MPPT I planned on using didn't work, so I had to put in the small 15A unit I use for development work: That limits me to an extra 400W at present above the 900W I had before. So the picture attached, for all practical purposes, is a 1300Wp array and a 1600VA hybrid inverter, making about 6kwh. Could've done a tiny bit better, batteries was at 93% last night and I lost a bit of power when they became full and there were no other loads this morning... Best so far, with the new array, is 7.2kwh. Upgrading the MPPTs should push it above 8, adding the final panel should bring it to about 9 on a good day. Anyway, so yes, it works (the smaller inverter plan), but I still think the 3kva unit would be the better option. Also, because the hybrid inverter costs quite a bit more than that other popular thing... I think the argument pretty much falls apart when considered in terms of pure installation cost. I'm waiting for next year though. Then the first Axperts will be 5 years old... :-) Edit: legend for the chart, red is grid, yellow is PV, blue is battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 So shortly after 6PM I started to lose the war and the grid started to come back in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, plonkster said: I still think the 3kva unit would be the better option. Me, I so want a 1.5kw SMA SunnyBoy since I confirmed, if I spend the +-R5.5k on a device to not send power back, that I can keep my old meter with no min monthly fees. So the moment the ship arrives, that is happening. And the current systems? Main system will stay in place for the off-grid loads, the small system will fall away. EDIT: O lest I forget ... to make it really work, the household will have to change habits, again. Sug. A exercise I am not looking forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said: I never bothered until @Chris Hobson recently showed interest in the performance of such a small system constantly at near max. Mark and I have a friendly rivalry in that when we started logging to PV Output he was the closest system to me at the time (kom @Czauto). We also had similar weather. He use to have 600W of panels which worked near maximum output all the time. I disparagingly called it the "draadkar" but it was super-efficient and I knew I had had a good solar day if I was anywhere near the efficiency of Mark's system. Mark's system has grown and with it the efficiency has come down. Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 One thing I picked up, efficiency, the way MY systems are running, is not taken into account. The moment the panels stop producing, PVO stops calculating the efficiency yet I am still running on today's stored power. Should it not taken into account the kWh used every 24h with panels kWh generated during the day for my daytime generation is still being used at night. Or am I missing the plot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Wrong term I think. Utilisation (insolation harvested vs what was available) is what's really being measured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czauto Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I don't like to start any nighttime with half charged batteries simply because i won't be happy if we get a blackout and my batteries are flat. I use ICC's time control to switch to solar at 7am and back to grid at 4pm. My charge priority is set to solar first so if it's cloudy, like today, and yesterday and the day before, i get my batteries charged after 4pm with a 10A charge from the grid. The thing is I use only about 400w during the day so I've set my pool pump timer to run it for almost 4hours every day. Washing days i set the washing machine not to wash while the pool pump is running. I'm still fine tuning.....Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 11 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said: One thing I picked up, efficiency, the way MY systems are running, is not taken into account. The moment the panels stop producing, PVO stops calculating the efficiency yet I am still running on today's stored power. Should it not taken into account the kWh used every 24h with panels kWh generated during the day for my daytime generation is still being used at night. Or am I missing the plot? Efficiency is kWh/kW produced. Whether you consume the power immediately or store it the power has been produced by the panels. You buy ½ dozen doughnuts from the corner shop. You eat one while waiting in the queue in the shop, you and your mate eat one each in the parking lot, and you dawdle home and eat another on the way. Your mother is the moering because she was expecting you to come home with six doughnuts. Instead you only have two to tide you and your little sister over until tomorrow. Whether you save your doughnuts for tonight or eat them immediately you still only bought six doughnuts. How much power did you panels produce today? How big is your array? That's it. When and how that power is used is not the question. Think of your batteries as a concomitant immediate load. It solves this problem. The fact that you can use the energy stored albeit at a poor efficiency at a later time is something I am grateful for. ___ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 12 hours ago, Chris Hobson said: Instead you only have two to tide you and your little sister over until tomorrow. She ain't getting nothing. She baked a cake and never shared so mom said I can get donuts. Like in my case, the concomitant load is actually a real load because whilst the batteries are charged using the panels, the inverter is running at minimum load till they reached a set SOC. That is why I move up the lists every day after starting at the near end. Goes back to my BMV relay that I must switch earlier to run off inverter earlier whilst charging the batteries and still end up, same as Czauto, at the end of the day at my set min SOC for the evening. Not worried if it is not reached every day, as long as once a week it is at least once at 100% and preferably not below 70%, weather depending. If power failures return, then I adjust the numbers, till then I want to use the batteries for they will give me X kWh whether I use it or not for if I don't use them then their age will catch me before the time. 4000 or 1600 cycles or +-8 years - that is what I bought, that is what I want to use as best I can. I switch the relay manually sometimes, but most of them times, I forget to switch it back. Goes right back to switch on and forget system see. EDIT: And because my evening loads are so light, 12v Lithium may be in my future once the T105RE's said goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Goes right back to switch on and forget system see. I think most of us have set and forget systems. I got my settings right about 2 months ago and have not changed it since. I don't fiddle with my settings every day. My wife would ask can I switch on the aircon, I have a look at the my load and how much spare solar I have and say, yes, go for it. If she switched it on without asking and I did not have spare solar capacity, it might dip a little into the batteries, so what. You cannot change settings to fix it. My settings have been set optimally for my setup, whether I have no load or excessive load. Therefore I also have a set and forget system . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said: EDIT: And because my evening loads are so light, 12v Lithium may be in my future once the T105RE's said goodbye. If I every have a cash then I think the Lithium or one of those liquid batts is the way to go. For my "set and forget" system... although I do like fiddling and improving...(TTT ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 @SolarNoob 1)) Login to PVO, 2)) Click on Live Outputs, 3)) Then sort by clicking on Efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Don said: I think most of us have set and forget systems. My definition of a S&F (Set and Forget) system is one where no-one is aware of it like the only time anyone even knows there is a solar system is when the kettle / microwave / oven does not work due to a power failure. I vehemently refuse to put those loads on batts if I have cheaper than batts Eskom. And the only value I care for is the last 7 days min SOC values, I use that value only to adjust the loads 4 times a year. 5 minutes ago, SolarNoob said: I suspect it might be a paid for feature? Have no idea. Email PVO and ask them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 46 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: My definition of a S&F (Set and Forget) system is one where no-one is aware of it like the only time anyone even knows there is a solar system is when the kettle / microwave / oven does not work due to a power failure. If we start load shedding again, you will be reminded daily that you have a set and forget system. I also have 3 items that run straight from Eskom. The stove (not even sure if it still works, my wife only uses the snappy chef for the last year), oven (use it maybe 3 times a week), solar geyser element (have not switched it on in the last 6 months). Other than that, everything runs from the inverters. On solar panels during the day and from 24h00 till sunrise on batteries. The only time I will notice that we are doing load shedding is if happens to be between 18h00 and 24h00, otherwise I would not even be aware of it. Even if it does happen during those 6 hours, it will not affect me at all, as I can do 12 hours on batteries. That is what I call set and forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I hope it is going to be a great solar day today. I want to see if I can get Blackjack. Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I also don't have the Efficiency sorting feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sidewinder said: I also don't have the Efficiency sorting feature. I use this link that @Mark posted some time ago. Maybe he can update the link to include everyone from SA on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yes, that link does sort nicely. When I login, I can only sort on "Online", and use the "Filter" function, nothing else. Need to bookmark "Mark's" link. Thanks for the reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibiza Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Don said: I hope it is going to be a great solar day today. I want to see if I can get Blackjack. Did you try to generate the power without the tracker? That would be good to know if you spent the money well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Something is still amiss with Marks link. It shows only top 22. The bottom of the list is Efficiency of zero. Happens to be one of @The Terrible Triplett. My number is running @ 0.209, and nowhere on Mark's list. On the (complete) list if I login, shows one @The Terrible Triplett, (the one on Zero Efficiency is missing). Not complaining, but how do I "join" this exclusive sorted list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Not the whole day. I once left it on manual in the orientation it would have been if I installed the panels on the roof. I could immediately see the difference. An hour later I put the tracker in auto mode and the solar production increased immediately. 5 minutes ago, ibiza said: That would be good to know if you spent the money well It was money well spent. It will just take about 20 years to recover. ibiza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibiza Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Don said: Not the whole day. I once left it on manual in the orientation it would have been if I installed the panels on the roof. I could immediately see the difference. An hour later I put the tracker in auto mode and the solar production increased immediately. It was money well spent. It will just take about 20 years to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibiza Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Don said: Not the whole day. I once left it on manual in the orientation it would have been if I installed the panels on the roof. I could immediately see the difference. An hour later I put the tracker in auto mode and the solar production increased immediately. It was money well spent. It will just take about 20 years to recover. You are already making twice of my production with only 1/3 of my array Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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