Axpert 5000VA 4000watt main board confusion

[Zimnismoboy34]

Hello all,

I would like to thank any one in advance for their response .

I have had the misfortune of plugging in two Axpert 5000va inverters and having them both blow, even though they were wired correctly and turned on the first one blew and came up with a error 53 inverter failure, the second one 10 seconds after being turned on smoke bellowed out the FET board section from input and blew our 135amp dc in line fuse?

Not sure if any one else has had bad luck with these, but I have written into the supplier and asked for a replacement board, firstly they keep referring to the inverter as a ups, and secondly they are asking me for a ME number that is written on the board to replace the current faulty unit .

Yes the units are under warranty but because I don't want to create tension with my supplier who migh at add is already pointing fingers miswiring etc or faulty installation, I refuse to believe this or accept it as I am proficient enough and more then capable of setting up a 48v system with my eyes closed .

so inherently who must I ask for from the dealers ?

How does one go about getting the right board for the Axpert SOL-I-AX-5M

 

Kindest Regards

 

[Guest]

O my word!!! What a misfortune. All I can add are my condolences.

 

UPS referral, jip, my experiences was that the IT companies that imported these devices initially brought them in primarily as UPS'es, for most of the UPS'es in the market at the time used the small 7 or 9ah batteries that could carry 3kva upwards for a few minutes, or was modified sine waves, big batts, all which costed a pretty penny, the good ones. 

And each one and his family climbed on that bandwagon to import and supply UPS'es. IF the power failures continued, I would be coining it round about now with battery replacements, for most got it wrong ito load and Ah's. 

So they brought in the Voltronic ranges, as UPS'es, with an option for solar panels ... first ones barely had enough MPPT capacity to even power the load ... and then it took off!!!

Today they are mainstream solar inverters, better MPPT's and the people love them, good value for money ... 

So it would be VERY interesting to see what transpires here, for I myself am not unfamiliar at all in letting smoke out of things. But I can only blame myself when I tried to make pos into neg and neg into pos or plug a small inverter into the light output of a charge controller ... and touching 220v AC, piece of cake man when you pick up the coffee over exposed wires or tripping the house, after burning a hole in my desk, when I tried to devise a new temp sensor to switch a pool pump on/off.  

Today I am a wee bit skittish. Must be the age. 

[___]

Knowing a little bit about how that bit works... It has a full bridge that chops a high DC voltage into AC, and as long as you leave all four switches off in that bridge, it doesn't really matter what you connect to it, so if it is connected to the AC output of another inverter it should be perfectly fine. When it operates in parallel with another inverter, the important bit is that those switches are in sync with the master unit. The bad stuff happens when they are not in sync and one inverter is attempting to swing the sine wave up while the other one is a couple of degrees out and trying to go the opposite way. So whatever happened here quite possibly had to do with an incorrect configuration, failed comms, bug in the software, or something...

[Coulomb]

So presumably you set the two units to "PAL" mode (parameter 28) before paralleling them? And verified that the parameter change stuck (seeing HS on one and SL on the other)? This before applying AC input.

It seems to me that the Axperts could do with a little more checking before they turn on their outputs. There is just so much to go wrong when paralleling. Certainly others have had misfortune paralleling them, for example:

http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=4332&PID=56636&title=pip4048ms-inverter#56636

Edit: granted, rather different error messages and behaviour, but both cases all the inverters were non functional.

[Zimnismoboy34]

Hello All thanks for the intuitive replies .

But these units were being used in a standalone setup, and each failed in a different manner .

The first switched on was left to charge batteries and then failed when I walked in the next morning .

The second Axpert 5000VA failed when I had it all wired in and powered the unit up it made the precheck beep and the next thing everything was a puff of smoke and the fuse blew at the same time .

so effectively these are not units that are being paralled wish I had got that far......

These are two separate occasions two separate units that have been plugged in with no AC LOADS connected not even a AC output cable, purely DC input in the correct manner Pos to Pos etc, and the first unit left us with Error 53 Inverter failure and the second unit a roast bag of IC components in the FET on the input side are faulty and split open ....

So sadly  Mustek quoted 5600ZAR ... abit steep id say and they don't look to be mistaken or prepared to reduce the price ... what is the best priced 5000 Va unit in South Africa, Please ops if I'm off sides please alter my post or ask me to alter it as I'm not too sure what I can write or not write .....

 

 

[Mike]

cheapest i can get right now is R6999excl...zero markup! ex Cape Town

[Guest]

Every time I have wired a UPS incorrectly to the battery, yea did that a few times to many, the guy that sometimes fixes them for me could guess quite reasonably what I did, based on what blew.

Is the same not applicable to the Axperts? 

For if they are under still warranty, as stated, and there is no evidence of them being connected the wrong way around to the battery pack, then Mustek should replace.

There was a Infini, Mustek I think I recall, and now two Axpert, also Mustek, not related in any way, but is Mustek maybe getting a wee bit cautious with replacements?

How many failures have they had on Infini's and Axperts, units sold versus failures? They should be asked the question.

Same for Rectron and all the other suppliers. Just to get a feel.

[Coulomb]

On 2016/05/19 at 5:33 AM, Zimnismoboy34 said:

so effectively these are not units that are being paralled wish I had got that far......

Oh right. Doesn't leave much room for operator error, really.

 

On 2016/05/19 at 6:36 AM, The Terrible Triplett said:

Every time I have wired a UPS incorrectly to the battery, yea did that a few times to many, the guy that sometimes fixes them for me could guess quite reasonably what I did, based on what blew.

Is the same not applicable to the Axperts? 

Hard to say. The Axperts have a circuit to prevent problems with reversed battery connections. I've never tried it (would you risk it intentionally?), but it's comforting to know it's there. Though it means that the whole battery current goes through four MOSFETs. On the older models, these were on a heat-sink by themselves, just 43 mm long, in line with the shorter of the two main heat-sinks and separated by a few mm from it.

The only thing I can think of is transients on the battery cables, through the power-on surge initiating ringing. But if this was a problem, or even if the suppliers were authorised to use it as an excuse to charge for warranty repair, then there should be a caution about this in the manual. I've never seen any mention of pre-charge in any of the Voltronic / MPP Solar / other manuals.

I always start mine with a pre-charge or some sort, either resistive (start with a roughly 5 ohm resistor, then short the resistor with a breaker or suitably rated switch), or I use the single cell method (useful only for Lithium batteries; start with 3.2 V, then 6.4 V (two cells), and move the red cable up the battery, moving quickly from one cell inter-connect to the next, until it's at the positive end. Most useful for temporary connections using car jumper cables, as when testing.

The battery management system we're using (our own design) has provision for a pre-charge resistor and associated contactor. It's more expense and wiring, but I feel that the lack of brutality on start-up makes for better longevity.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Coulomb

[Zimnismoboy34]

interesting note on the reversal protection, where would these be located the 4 isolated FETs that is especially on the revision of Voltronic inverter we have, bearing in mind that the unit we get in Africa is not with MPPT down the middle and is the older model with MPPT on the top of the inverter .

[___]

Look in the files section, a forum member has uploaded the service manuals for the Voltronics. That explains where everything is.

Edit: Here you go

 

[Coulomb]

14 hours ago, Zimnismoboy34 said:

where would these be located the 4 isolated FETs that is especially on the revision of Voltronic inverter we have

Looks like it's the same on all models. From the mentioned service manual.

 

[viceroy]

Highly unlikely that two units should blow up due to an internal fault.

If I was you I would double and triple check your wiring.

As with some of the other guys here, I'm quite familiar with blowing up my equipment, most notably one of my Axperts, and it was entirely my fault, and basically came down to wiring the AC IN into the OUT and visa versa. Needless to say one loud bang, and some white smoke later, I was an Axpert down. Opening up the unit showed the DC fuse blown.

As with you, there was no load on the unit, only batteries and grid being connected.

So as I initially said, double and triple check your wiring before anything. After my debacle, I now religiously disconnect EVERYTHING and remove all fuses before even thinking of working on my units. Before reconnecting everything I check everything with a multimeter turning switches on in stages to make sure nothing is untowards.

 

[Zimnismoboy34]

Hi all just an update tested the units and tested the FETS seems like the failure was definitely Surge(Spike ) related from batteries, pre charge is highly recommended when using these inverters, I would also say that the two inverters we had both were from the same batch and chances of two separate failures however unlikely are still high, technically the first failed in a different way while being switched off at the plug during a bulk phase charge, the second was on its first switch on that blew and took out the external 125amp fuse and the input fets as well .

So take care when powering these up, I think a precharge system /Switch circuitry should be installed at all your clients sites, simply put it will negate the long term effects on the Components from Transients.

Thanks Coloumb and the rest of the team for all your help, 16 Fets later and we are up and running again a good fixable unit for the cost .

[Zimnismoboy34]

PS viceroy I know that there are people out there that cant tell a Positive from A negative and really don't know how to wire in a inverter, but in our case the 4 Fets on the separate heat sink were all intact and required no replacing at all, indication that power was flowing correctly through the unit , not hard to ensure its used with in its voltage range too 48v is 48v its not easy to get that configuration wrong, so inherently there isn't much wiring that can go wrong, ac input is again a given if you have wired plugs all your life you would know that live and neutral are key components to ensuring the system works correctly, with a safety earth firmly affixed in the correct place. So to answer the question yes wiring was correct, I would go more into detail what I'm up to but at this stage don't want to stir the pot for fellow forum browsers or members . So for now just know that I'm dealing with systems of complexity much greater then just wiring in AC and battery into a inverter, not just a ugly/pretty face.

[viper_za]

26 minutes ago, Zimnismoboy34 said:

Thanks Coloumb and the rest of the team for all your help, 16 Fets later and we are up and running again a good fixable unit for the cost .

Did you upgrade the fets?

[Zimnismoboy34]

sadly didn't have time to get the upgraded units as they were out of stock from the components shop in the uk, useless farnell he he he any ways will try and get some a bit later, what makes you ask abouthe upgrade though have you upgraded ? and what differences have you noticed doing so ?

[viper_za]

12 minutes ago, Zimnismoboy34 said:

sadly didn't have time to get the upgraded units as they were out of stock from the components shop in the uk, useless farnell he he he any ways will try and get some a bit later, what makes you ask abouthe upgrade though have you upgraded ? and what differences have you noticed doing so ?

Have a look at this post. If you have a lot of time read the whole thread
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forums/pip4048ms-inverter_topic4332_post56103.html#56103

Coulomb that also pops in over here is the guy that I would say knows these units inside out.