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Sunsynk 2 x 5.5kW, Freedomwon 30/24, 28 x CS 420p Panels.


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Good evening from a new member.

So, the journey has started for us too. Our roof faces 12° West of North and a slope of 40°. Split level. I planned the roof layout on Cad and started the painstakingly slow process of attaching the hooks to the trusses. Using the Variosole railing system. Due to the slope of the roof I had to be very careful to prevent ending up in hospital with a broken something. After two weeks of working for an hour or two after work it was done. Those huge PV panels were glaring at me from a distance. I devised a lifting & sliding mechanism with a rope on a pulley to hoist then pull the panels up against the roof. (I am doing all this alone - so it's up and down the ladder 10 times per panel...) At 51 years of age your body feels the aches after a while.... The panel installation went smoothly - took another week or so to get them all up. I reticulated the wiring in Bosal conduit fixed to the railing. 4 strings, 8 & 6 panels grouping x 2. The reason for the unequal numbers due to expected shading on part of the roof. I decided to group the shaded panels in the two sets with 6 panels each. When I was about 3/4 done with the larger roof section I noticed the panels are slightly miss aligned and are dropping off on one side. I had to work from one side and do both rows in one go due to the slope. When all the panels were up I had to go back and do adjustments to align properly. I could not face looking at skew panels every day. (I have been told that I do need to seek professional help for my problem and I will - but only when I'm finished and happy....)

I have now reached the point of mounting the electrical equipment and switchgear in the garage - and hence registering on this forum. I am not an electrician. I do however intend to install this system so that any worthy electrician will be envious. The equipment layout has been planned and I'm busy putting up the P8200 trunking to house the wiring. There will be two ducts alongside each other to split A/C & D/C cables.

I have a few questions and I am sure as I go along more questions will come up. I'm hoping some of you friendly folks will be able to assist with your experience and knowledge and help a mechanical man with electrical know-how please?

I will be connecting the two 5.5kW hybrid inverters in parallel to give us 11kW. I have read the training manual and watched Keith Gough's training videos. There is so little good technical literature out there! I find it frustrating sometimes. Anyways - The freedomwon battery has 4 power cables. Would I be assuming correct that after the inverters are connected in parallel that I can wire one set of cables to each inverter? I do realise this is a  stupid question - (and there will be many more!) I just want to make 100% sure that what I'm doing is right. Would really appreciate your feedback and tolerance for all the dumb questions that will follow. Oh, and if someone needs advice on how to install man alone against a steep slope - I can offer my experience and share pics of the devices I made to help make it easier.

Below a few sketches of the planning phase and how it turned out eventually. (Still need to make some alignment adjustments on the bottom row). Rest of the work is now in the garage.

2021-11-11 00_57_43-Autodesk AutoCAD 2018 - [Garage.dwg].jpg

2021-11-11 00_53_17-Document3 - Word.jpg

2021-11-11 00_49_42-Document3 - Word.jpg

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Hi Andre. Nice looking install. 

Maybe get some direction from Freedom Won as their warranty is void if it's not installed by an authorised installer or approved and commissioned by Freedom Won

 

The warranty is only valid and applicable if the Lite was installed by an authorized Freedom Lite installer or approved and commissioned by Freedom Won. Should the Lite need to be relocated this must also be done by an authorized installer. The warranty is also only valid if the Lite and all associated charges such as delivery costs is fully paid for by the installer or if necessary directly by the owner within 60 days of the final amount becoming due

 

 

Guarantee Document - Freedom Lite updated March 2020.pdf

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On 2021/11/16 at 3:11 AM, Leshen said:

Maybe get some direction from Freedom Won as their warranty is void if it's not installed by an authorised installer or approved and commissioned by Freedom Won

 

Thank you for that Leshen - my battery didn't come with any documentation. It's good you brought that to my attention. I will get directive from Freedomwon. Will post back on their advise for other's benefit as well.

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38 minutes ago, Andre Burger said:

Thank you for that Leshen - my battery didn't come with any documentation. It's good you brought that to my attention. I will get directive from Freedomwon. Will post back on their advise for other's benefit as well.

Anytime Andre. 

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FYI -

For advanced support please contact [email protected] or on WhatsApp at +27 60 968 5145 during office hours (08h00 to 17h30 CAT Monday to Friday). Assistance on weekends and public holidays may be arranged for urgent circumstances.

 

Let me know how you go.

 

You may need to rethink the positioning of the DC breakers on the board, might be a bit tight as is.

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On 2021/11/18 at 2:30 PM, shanghailoz said:

FYI -

For advanced support please contact [email protected] or on WhatsApp at +27 60 968 5145 during office hours (08h00 to 17h30 CAT Monday to Friday). Assistance on weekends and public holidays may be arranged for urgent circumstances.

 

Let me know how you go.

 

You may need to rethink the positioning of the DC breakers on the board, might be a bit tight as is.

Shanghailoz - thank you for your advise regarding those DC breaker positions - no amount of knowledge  beats experience. I moved them. The battery cables will now enter direct into the fuse box from below and I've got plenty room on top to bend the cable into the compression gland. I think you saved me from a lot of frustration....

I've sent Freedomwon an email as you suggested. I'm not impressed with their technical backup to be honest. Took them 3 days to read the mail and still waiting for a reply....  I'll wait till tomorrow then make waves. When you spend well over a R100k buying a product from a local company you at least expect a reasonable response time for a very simple query. Not so happy.

Now - 2nd question: the battery is fitted with 2 pairs of 95mm² cables. Sunsynk suggests a minimum cable size of 35mm² for these 5kW inverters. Ohm's law for 5500W and 48V suggests that the max current will be around 115A. A 50mm² cable rated for 207A and less than 3m should surely be ok to use?

 

Edited by Andre Burger
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I would be inclined to wire the battery cables and the inverters to appropriately thick copper busbars.  If one inverter fails, the other will be providing all the output.  Also, the max current of the cable is not as relevant as the resistive losses at high current.  The 30/24 Freedom Won is capable of supplying 30kW continuous, which is why it has such thick cabling.  Your inverters are capable of consuming much less (and charging at a much lower rate), so cabling to them should be appropriate for their power and the run length.  A run of 50mm2 cable will drop about 0.08V per meter at 110A.

Edited by Paulcupine
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12 hours ago, Andre Burger said:

Now - 2nd question: the battery is fitted with 2 pairs of 95mm² cables. Sunsynk suggests a minimum cable size of 35mm² for these 5kW inverters. Ohm's law for 5500W and 48V suggests that the max current will be around 115A. A 50mm² cable rated for 207A and less than 3m should surely be ok to use?

 

Paulcupine gave good advice. Should you go the copper busbar route, use both of those supplied cables and wire the two on opposite ends of the busbars if they long enough.  Else use them to feed the switches. One thing to consider, for every crimp and every connection there are resistances and they all add up. The net result are heat generation and efficiency drop. Every cable with two crimps have for extra resistances to be added up to the cable length resistance. So introducing more connections add up to more resistance and more heat losses.

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On 2021/11/23 at 11:22 AM, Guest Sarel said:

Paulcupine gave good advice. Should you go the copper busbar route, use both of those supplied cables and wire the two on opposite ends of the busbars if they long enough.

On 2021/11/23 at 11:14 AM, Paulcupine said:

I would be inclined to wire the battery cables and the inverters to appropriately thick copper busbars. 

Gentlemen, thank you for the good advice - I've decided to do just that. I've run two 30x10mm copper busbars behind my back board. The battery cables (all 4 of them) will however connect to the busbars in the centre and not the two sides as suggested. I didn't want unequal lengths on the battery cables. The backing board actually works very well to safely conceal the busbars and some other unsightly wiring.

When I've got the board down again I'll take a picture and post progress. Getting very near the point that I need to call my electrician to come inspect and sign off. I borrowed his crimping tool only to find its one of those old fashioned dimple ones. Went to Adendorf and bought a hex hydraulic crimping tool for R1000. So far I've done many 50mm² and a few 95mm² crimps. So far so good. Cannot fault the tool. It's not pretty but it works well.

I've read somewhere that people have a hard time finding cut length busbars. If you're in Joburg, google a company called Metal centre. They've done a lot of profile cutting for me on other stuff. I decided to give them a try for the busbars - and true as bob, they had the exact size I wanted and cut two pieces to 1.4m for me - no problem.

Thank you again for the guidance Paulcupine & Sarel.

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Almost there!

2 x 300mm² Busbars for battery connections behind backing board.

DC wiring done. A/C wiring next up.

I'm thinking to wire from the "load" connection in the inverter (essential power) straight into my house DB i.e. everything will be on essential load - with a changeover switch to grid supply if battery power is low. If I utilise the grid connection with CT coil on incoming live with zero eport set, the battery would charge via mains right? Not sure I want that to happen.

Any advise would be welcomed please. I'm uneasy with what to do next to be honest. Island (with changeover) / hybrid.

20211205_200916.jpg

20211202_200113.jpg

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Can you hear opportunity screaming out to all those people who cant find work? 

If you cant ... let me help you ... I dont want to install the panels on the projects I have lined up ... if there was a team of youngsters looking to install panels at a reasonable rate ... Use your head and send each person a pm offering to assist with the install. 

You dont need to be a master installation specialist ... if I wasnt so busy with work thats what I would be doing. 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

She's alive! 😀 (and working it appears)...

Only figured out late this afternoon that you have to set the time function in order make the system operate from the battery power.

Also received an email from freedomwon today - I invited them to free and verify the installation / commission for their warranty clauses to be validated. Apparently they don't do that. They will however put me in touch with an accredited installer in my area. Looking forward to test the guys knowledge. Have soooo many questions....

Anyways, just finished a reasonably heavy evening with the washing machine, stove, a/c and geyser on. Total draw approximately 7kW at one stage. System seems to cope well.

Looking forward to see the pv yield tomorrow.

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This is so much fun to watch as it's happening. SOC up to 75% at 11:00 after draining to 36% overnight.

Current rate of charge: 7.6kW

Production: 8.02kW (My panels are at 40° - Should be at maximum efficiency in June / July. Quite happy with a summer day yield so far)

Consumption: 278W

Grid feed in: 89W.

Can live with this.

2022.01.10 - Day 1.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Andre Burger said:

This is so much fun to watch as it's happening.

It is truly addictive isn't it 😀 And even more so when you realise the power you are using during the day is all for free essentially - gave me a complete mindset change.

Enjoy the new system and your new found freedom 😆

Edited by MdF
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On 2021/11/11 at 1:01 AM, Andre Burger said:

I do however intend to install this system so that any worthy electrician will be envious.

On 2021/11/11 at 1:01 AM, Andre Burger said:

I could not face looking at skew panels every day. (I have been told that I do need to seek professional help for my problem and I will - but only when I'm finished and happy....)

An excellent approach to achieving your desired results - which, by the way, are very pleasing to the eye. (I'd also forego the opportunity to pay for advice from someone who thinks they know better how to be the best you.)

Thanks for sharing your info and the results. May that system serve you well for many years!

 

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  • 6 months later...

Feedback almost 7 months since start-up.

I am so happy with this system - especially now with the load shedding. Some may say I had inside information...

Have since added a few smart switches, re-kindled our underfloor heating system, threw out the original WiFi data sticks and bought the Sunsynk data sticks (still not 100% happy with servers going down every now and again - although so much better than the Solarman app. Thinking about the Raspberry Pi option for real time data. Happy users out there? Any recommendations? Oh, and converted to pre-paid to save on the network and surcharge garbage.

We have not seen one day without power to run the full household - including geyser and air conditioning - what a pleasure it has been so far!

April saw a LOT of rain in Joburg and there were more than the usual number of days where I had to manage the charging of the battery very carefully.  Nonetheless, our grid usage is next to nothing. More a case of me preserving the SOC at above 35% instead of 20% to be honest. I want this system to last till I sell the property - and beyond.

Below a few energy generation graphs of the system.

Thank you to all who so kindly contributed with knowledge.

This is a wonderful forum.

 

Year.jpg

Month.jpg

Day.jpg

House.jpg

Garage.jpg

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  • 5 months later...
On 2022/01/09 at 10:03 PM, Andre Burger said:

She's alive! 😀 (and working it appears)...

Only figured out late this afternoon that you have to set the time function in order make the system operate from the battery power.

Also received an email from freedomwon today - I invited them to free and verify the installation / commission for their warranty clauses to be validated. Apparently they don't do that. They will however put me in touch with an accredited installer in my area. Looking forward to test the guys knowledge. Have soooo many questions....

Anyways, just finished a reasonably heavy evening with the washing machine, stove, a/c and geyser on. Total draw approximately 7kW at one stage. System seems to cope well.

Looking forward to see the pv yield tomorrow.

I would change the stainless steel bolts on the busbar to bronze/brass .

clean looking install. Did you cut the battery 50mm2 cable shorter and run a 100m2 single cable to the inverter.

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28 minutes ago, Colin Walker said:

I would change the stainless steel bolts on the busbar to bronze/brass .

clean looking install. Did you cut the battery 50mm2 cable shorter and run a 100m2 single cable to the inverter.

Agreed Colin. The brass is a better idea. Yes, I shortened the 4x95mm² battery cables to the busbars. The feed to each inverter is 75mm² each. The 95mm² cables were too much to bend into the position I wanted them in. 50mm² would have been fine too but wanted to keep voltage drop to a minimum.

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Andre I installed 2 x 12kw Sunsynk three phase inverters.

I have 2 x 15/12 Freedom Won lite batteries.
Started this 7 months ago ( had to change a flat roof) First phase was 15 JA  all black (38Ow) Second phase was 11 panels on the main roof.

I bought the second inverter because by new one had to go from Cape Town (uk company ) to Jhb for repair. This took 1 month.

I need redundancy on this investment as well as prepare for Winter.

Did you manufacture the large enclosure and is it out of PVC or did you build a smaller enclosure loser for the busbarB964028C-78B7-4C7B-8E7A-BF73983146A0.thumb.png.b020b11b224ac72e0f6c42a92655fba7.png

 

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32 minutes ago, Colin Walker said:

Andre I installed 2 x 12kw Sunsynk three phase inverters.

I have 2 x 15/12 Freedom Won lite batteries.
Started this 7 months ago ( had to change a flat roof) First phase was 15 JA  all black (38Ow) Second phase was 11 panels on the main roof.

I bought the second inverter because by new one had to go from Cape Town (uk company ) to Jhb for repair. This took 1 month.

I need redundancy on this investment as well as prepare for Winter.

Did you manufacture the large enclosure and is it out of PVC or did you build a smaller enclosure loser for the busbarB964028C-78B7-4C7B-8E7A-BF73983146A0.thumb.png.b020b11b224ac72e0f6c42a92655fba7.png

 

I also believe redundancy is key to each installs. We in fact design all our client's systems with the view on future expansion and redundancy.

I mounted the entire protection DB, AC and battery isolators etc on a back board / cupboard that encloses the busbars behind. It tilts open on hinges. Makes for a nice clean appearance.

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When you have two inverters in parallel if the master goes down both stop working . Why is it necessary to have two sets of fuse/breakers to the inverters. Could it not be cables from battery to busbar then thicker cable to fuse/breaker and then two cables going out of each fuse/breaker - one to each inverter.

The logic being that if there is a problem you would need to break the connection anyway for both inverters .

Not being an electrician is the problem the fuse size as with two inverters it can draw more amps from the batteries.

 

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