PicHopper Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 I've been quoted for this solution together with solar panels to feed it! I specified that I may need the installation to be done outside under the eaves. The alternative was Tesla Powerwall 2 or this one: Fox Box 6 kWh with 10.4kWh batteries in one IP65 box! FOX Box – 6kW All in One Hybrid Inverter with 10.4kWh Battery Storage - M Solar Power Any info or experience on this option? Thanks Quote
Buyeye Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 No experience with the solution but I like it, I can't tell what oem is used for the inverter but the batteries look like pylontechs or dyness. The 10 year warranty is pretty good. Quote
Buyeye Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 1 minute ago, P1000 said: 10.4kWh with an inverter and weighs only 60kg? Missed that, it's a good point it should be 120kg. Quote
P1000 Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, Buyeye said: Missed that, it's a good point it should be 120kg. Yeah, I think it is probably the weight without the batteries. Quote
Bobster. Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 Don't be mislead by that nice picture. I assume you are going this route so that the system will be acceptable to your parents, will be be a better fit and look in their dwelling. Check out some of the other pictures of actual installations and note that they show trunking. Get clarity on what is going to be visible and share this with your parents. I can't speak about this particular solution, but I like the all-in-one idea. You have less hassles getting everything to work together. Quote
PicHopper Posted April 1, 2022 Author Posted April 1, 2022 7 hours ago, P1000 said: 10.4kWh with an inverter and weighs only 60kg? I am guessing that the 60kg is only for the enclosure, and that what goes into it will definitely weight more and do more! It is a nice looking option, and I will try to locate actual installations and see how its performing. Quote
PicHopper Posted April 1, 2022 Author Posted April 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Bobster said: Don't be mislead by that nice picture. I assume you are going this route so that the system will be acceptable to your parents, will be be a better fit and look in their dwelling. Check out some of the other pictures of actual installations and note that they show trunking. Get clarity on what is going to be visible and share this with your parents. I can't speak about this particular solution, but I like the all-in-one idea. You have less hassles getting everything to work together. The reason why I was looking for this was to try and identify a possible installation for outside their home. They have a very small space, and having big inverters and batteries cluttering stuff would not be a good thing. This is IP65 rated so can go outside in the rain! YAY.... Also I quite like the idea that this is all in one - with compatible equipment built in, and with a neat and tidy look, too. Will try to find locations where its installed to get real life feedback. Quote
PicHopper Posted April 1, 2022 Author Posted April 1, 2022 7 hours ago, Buyeye said: No experience with the solution but I like it, I can't tell what oem is used for the inverter but the batteries look like pylontechs or dyness. The 10 year warranty is pretty good. I also thought that a 10 year warranty is really at the top end of the market. Hopefully the price is not at that top end of the market....... Quote
Buyeye Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, PicHopper said: I also thought that a 10 year warranty is really at the top end of the market. Hopefully the price is not at that top end of the market....... It's cheaper than tesla by a lot considering it has an inverter included. I've seen the alpha ess for a bit less and we know the alpha ess uses a goodwe inverter. Quote
Steve87 Posted April 2, 2022 Posted April 2, 2022 Livoltek do the same in South Africa. They call I t the Hyper 5000. 5.1kWh battery and 5kW inverter... Jacques Ester, BritishRacingGreen and zsde 3 Quote
PicHopper Posted April 13, 2022 Author Posted April 13, 2022 On 2022/04/02 at 10:45 AM, Steve87 said: Livoltek do the same in South Africa. They call I t the Hyper 5000. 5.1kWh battery and 5kW inverter... Thanks - I will try to check them out! Quote
PicHopper Posted April 13, 2022 Author Posted April 13, 2022 OK - so I met with the Salesman yesterday regarding the FoxESS All in One. The technology appears to be sound - but I have a question or two: 1. The inverter is fanless...... they use a very large heatsink at the back of the unit to dissipate heat. I guess this is a way of reducing moving parts. What other inverters have a fanless system? 2. The system is proprietary - that means that you can't use a different type of battery or inverter in combination. This is a good and a bad thing! It means that the system will work together properly, as they are designed to do so. It also means that if for some reason, you are not able to import the parts, you have a very expensive cupboard! Can anyone tell me what the protocols are between inverter and battery?(I am still new to this so very much on a steep learning curve!) 3. They claim that the system contains a split between essentials (which are powered by the battery) and non-essentials that are split within the box. I assume that this means that if the mains is on, the non-essential load is still fed through the inverter as this is essentially the brains of the system. This means that if you want to have the lawnmower on a separate Mains-only system, it would also run through the inverter, adding to the load that it can take, possibly tripping due to a combined load with the washing machine, iron and,... The largest is a 6kW system with a max rating of 7800W (short time) - which might be limiting. 4. It is rated at IP65, so apparently it can live outside. I would much rather have it located inside for safety, and so that no tampering can take place. Pro's and Con's The salesman said that they had only installed 12 units in Gauteng to date, during the past 12 months or so. There are more installations in the Western Cape, so I am hoping that some people who have this might be able to reflect their experiences. Have a great day! old man joe 1 Quote
Steve87 Posted April 13, 2022 Posted April 13, 2022 @PicHopper 1) quite a few inverter manufacturers employ the heatsink design. Huawei do the same as does Deye but usually this is with their Grid tied inverters and not the Hybrids. The hybrids seem to have fans for some reason or another. 2) Livoltek employ the exact same Proprietary design and you are spot on. The battery will not output Voltage without the said name inverter plugged in. There are pros and cons but i see more cons. Because FoxESS will not share the protocol to keep the battery online to work with other inverters. I have been engaging with Livoltek and they have been extremely kind to share their protocol with me to enable the battery to be paired with any inverter but i had to sign an NDA and also i use this in a non official way meaning they accept no responsibility should anything go wrong. So far i have paired at least 3 Livoltek batteries with 3rd party inverters and it works extremely well. 3) Cannot comment because each manufacturer does something different depends if you happy with the arrangement. 4) I would also keep it inside...Tampering, ants, water...I know what IP65 means but this is an expensive piece of kit, piece of mind says keep it safe and dry. On a final note, these manufacturers with the all in one units look very sleek and compact, which is a good thing. They are extremely eye catching and they are not poorly priced and they work very well when it all works. But if it doesnt work Im not so sure how they would deal with warranty claims etc. The nice thing is that in essence its plug and play, no tinkering or misinterpretation of settings by an installer. But i can only give my perspective from my dealings with Livoltek because that is my only point of reference with an all in one manufacturer. They want to enable their batteries to work with other 3rd party inverters and this unfortunately takes time because of testing and approval. The development and deployment of the protocol is really not child's play. You will need a knowledgeable person in that field to assist you. Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted April 13, 2022 Posted April 13, 2022 On 2022/04/01 at 5:12 PM, PicHopper said: The reason why I was looking for this was to try and identify a possible installation for outside their home. They have a very small space, and having big inverters and batteries cluttering stuff would not be a good thing. This is IP65 rated so can go outside in the rain! YAY.... Also I quite like the idea that this is all in one - with compatible equipment built in, and with a neat and tidy look, too. Will try to find locations where its installed to get real life feedback. UUmmmm yeah, but this is SA, will be stolen in no time Quote
PicHopper Posted April 13, 2022 Author Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Steve87 said: @PicHopper 1) quite a few inverter manufacturers employ the heatsink design. Huawei do the same as does Deye but usually this is with their Grid tied inverters and not the Hybrids. The hybrids seem to have fans for some reason or another. 2) Livoltek employ the exact same Proprietary design and you are spot on. The battery will not output Voltage without the said name inverter plugged in. There are pros and cons but i see more cons. Because FoxESS will not share the protocol to keep the battery online to work with other inverters. I have been engaging with Livoltek and they have been extremely kind to share their protocol with me to enable the battery to be paired with any inverter but i had to sign an NDA and also i use this in a non official way meaning they accept no responsibility should anything go wrong. So far i have paired at least 3 Livoltek batteries with 3rd party inverters and it works extremely well. 3) Cannot comment because each manufacturer does something different depends if you happy with the arrangement. 4) I would also keep it inside...Tampering, ants, water...I know what IP65 means but this is an expensive piece of kit, piece of mind says keep it safe and dry. On a final note, these manufacturers with the all in one units look very sleek and compact, which is a good thing. They are extremely eye catching and they are not poorly priced and they work very well when it all works. But if it doesnt work Im not so sure how they would deal with warranty claims etc. The nice thing is that in essence its plug and play, no tinkering or misinterpretation of settings by an installer. But i can only give my perspective from my dealings with Livoltek because that is my only point of reference with an all in one manufacturer. They want to enable their batteries to work with other 3rd party inverters and this unfortunately takes time because of testing and approval. The development and deployment of the protocol is really not child's play. You will need a knowledgeable person in that field to assist you. Thank you for your clear and logical reply! Much to my surprise, you echoed almost every argument I had for the salesman! The issue with proprietary protocols means that it is "guaranteed" to work with their infrastructure (EG: Apple). The difficulty however is that since this is a new market, their support is probably not going to be great, and will deteriorate as they install more and need to support more. I am leaning towards going with a "common" inverter and battery combination that many people know how to install, commission and maintain, rather than needing one particular manufacturer's techies in China to support. Thanks for your help and guidance! Steve87 1 Quote
mzezman Posted April 13, 2022 Posted April 13, 2022 Adding my 2c Tech is evolving fast any by the time 5yrs has passed a newer more efficient battery might exist - with this system you are tied in to their range and upgrade cycle. With a split system or one that accepts other batteries you can just upgrade those (should one wish to do so) Steve87 and zsde 1 1 Quote
AgentMulders Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 I know it's months later but I figured it's worth replying here since it's the only FoxESS thread I could find. The battery and inverter system are a high voltage DC setup, so you can't swap batteries out for a Pylontech 48v for instance. They are standard rack mount type batteries though. Fox is owned by a large battery manufacturer that does OEM work, so it's more likely that their tech is in other products that we already know. I'm installing a Fox 10.5kw hybrid inverter and high voltage battery pack in about a week (in Pretoria), I was considering the FoxBox which is the 6kw all in one mentioned in the original post but I'm trying to get as close to off grid as possible so I wanted more power and more panels. The 10.5 inverter has 4x MPPT with a max of 15kw. old man joe 1 Quote
PicHopper Posted July 29, 2022 Author Posted July 29, 2022 Hi there I've had a Sunsynk 8.8kW inverter + Freedomwon 10/8 battery installed with 8x 540W panels. I have a low power demand because I have piped gas to my property but I am really close to being off-grid. I use around 1kWh per day down from around 20kWh/day. Either you buy into the concept of an all-in-one solution or you decide to mix/match and get the best out of the system. If you're looking at all-in-one, then my research showed that FoxESS was the better option out there. Good luck with your installation - enjoy the freedom it brings! old man joe 1 Quote
Smiles Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 On 2022/07/27 at 11:20 PM, AgentMulders said: I know it's months later but I figured it's worth replying here since it's the only FoxESS thread I could find. The battery and inverter system are a high voltage DC setup, so you can't swap batteries out for a Pylontech 48v for instance. They are standard rack mount type batteries though. Fox is owned by a large battery manufacturer that does OEM work, so it's more likely that their tech is in other products that we already know. I'm installing a Fox 10.5kw hybrid inverter and high voltage battery pack in about a week (in Pretoria), I was considering the FoxBox which is the 6kw all in one mentioned in the original post but I'm trying to get as close to off grid as possible so I wanted more power and more panels. The 10.5 inverter has 4x MPPT with a max of 15kw. I'm in the market for an inverter and battery pack, and were wondering what is your experiences so far with the installation that you have done. (Fox 10.5kw hybrid inverter and high voltage battery pack). Where did you buy from, and what is the after sales service? thanks! old man joe 1 Quote
CasaV Posted October 5, 2022 Posted October 5, 2022 @AgentMulders I was wondering if you might kindly share a bit about your experience after the installation of the FoxESS hybrid inverter. You have had it for 2 months now. Would you recommend the product and make the same decisions again? old man joe 1 Quote
AgentMulders Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 @Smiles@CasaV I had a great experience, and we've been off grid since about a week after the install, quite literally, our Eskom mains switch is flipped off. I started with the solar panels, looking specifically for glass-glass bifacial panels and I only found one supplier in South Africa that had content online (articles and YouTube videos). So I contacted M Solar Power in Cape Town and asked for a Gauteng installer recommendation. They referred me to Crown Technologies in Joburg. Crown then came out for a consult and quote, and mapped the panels in 3D space and did a simulation of the actual equipment using a tool called Helioscope - this is something that really set them apart from the other companies I spoke to, it resonated with me as a software engineer. They also made suggestions about how to reduce electrical loads and control them with some home automation. My final installed setup is a FoxESS K series 10.5kw single phase inverter (IP65 but mounted in the garage under roof), 12x JA Solar Deep Blue 3.0 P-Type Bifacial glass-glass panels for a total of 6.5kw over 2 MPPT channels (2 out of 4), FoxESS EnergyCube 4.1 with one BMS master and 3 slaves for a total of 16kwh battery storage. I had the installers leave space for another 3 battery modules and another 12 solar panels. In preparation I also painted my IBR roof white to maximize the bifacial ability of the panels, and it had a nice secondary effect of cooling the house down by 2 to 4 degrees in this crazy heat wave. So far it's been great, I can treat it like an appliance, it just works. I was watching the power graphs obsessively in the beginning but now I trust it to just work with zero intervention. We are fully electric: swapped our gas geyser for 150lt electric geyser with 2kw ceramic element and CBI astute DB switch running 10am to 2pm daily, installed a Bosch induction cook top that works better than a gas hob, and we can run the 18 000 BTU inverter aircon throughout the night set to 21 degrees. So far we've only gone down to 48% once (last night when we were cooking and baking till late and running the aircon all night) and usually only run down to 65%. We're fully charged by 9am on a sunny day and on a cloudy day last month I kept the geyser off till 12 to let the batteries recharge. As for the experience of the product, I can't recommend it enough, I'm sure my friends looking for solar advice are already sick of me telling them to get a FoxESS system. And I had a great experience with Crown Technologies. One of my 12 panels was damaged in transit so they had to wait for a replacement to arrive. In that time there was also a product recall on a 3rd party AC connector that had actually failed on my system as well. The same day that I sent them photos of my connector they already got notice of the recall and were awaiting shipment of replacement parts. Once the panel and the connector arrived they came out and installed the final panel and swapped out the faulty connector. As part of the service, Crown was also monitoring my system remotely to check for anomalies or alarms. They, along with M Solar Power have sent feedback to FoxESS South Africa and there was a software update specifically for SA clients to change how the system handles the return of power after loadshedding (for clients that are drawing power from the grid). Having now seen the product and experienced living with it, I believe high voltage is the way of the future for residential installs. It is after all technology trickled down from utility and commercial installations. Apparently what they've been seeing through their monitoring is as much as 15% more energy availability and also lower temperatures. The highest temperature recorded on my battery is about 2 to 3 degrees above ambient (39.9 at 14:20 on Monday 3 October). It's also much easier to add another module, I can fully DIY it without risking my life with high ampere DC cables as thick as my thumb. It's a simple process of switching off, lifting the top module off, placing the new module, attaching an earth cable, and putting the top module back on. Some stats: peak PV power: 6.7kw (Crown explained this as edge-of-cloud effect that happens on cloudy days) on normal days 6.48kw peak peak power usage: 6.57kw (I was running my Makita cut-off saw at the same time as the geyser being on, it has a huge start-up current spike) monthly usage before solar: 600 - 800kwh monthly usage after solar: 0kwh from Eskom, the only number that counts Some thoughts: It's silent - no fans anywhere! It's tidy - no exposed wires to touch It's IP65 - can be installed outside in the rain if it has to be I paid a bit more for something brand new and super cool and I'm happy with it, should also give me 5 to 10 years more service life than a generic solar install I initially only wanted 12kwh batteries but at the last minute upped it to 16kwh and I'm glad I did. Might add another module in 6 months, depending on how things run with the rainy season. WannabeSolarSparky, Y.Hoosen, Jacques Ester and 1 other 3 1 Quote
Solarbaby Posted January 17, 2023 Posted January 17, 2023 Hi. Would you be so kind as to post a update on your Fox 10.5. As it is so new to the market you struggle to find relevant information. Your experience so far has been very helpful. Thank you for sharing. old man joe 1 Quote
AgentMulders Posted January 23, 2023 Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Update after 4+ months of operation is that the system works like an appliance, haven't had to change anything or even draw power from the grid. I've switched the grid on about once a month just so it registers that I still exist but at most it uses 1kwh when I do. The inverter stays cool, the batteries stay cool, and I'm able to spend a night cooking and baking and running my slow cooker and air conditioner and still have about 50% battery remaining in the morning when the sun comes out. I was worried a few times when it was raining and cloudy but that just meant the batteries charged up slower with the latest charge up to 99% being 4pm. I haven't even updated my geyser schedule on the CBI astute, it runs 10am to 2pm every day no matter the weather. I'm really impressed with how it's changed our lives, with my house becoming the unofficial Pretoria office for my loadshedding-afflicted colleagues that don't want to drive to the Joburg office Only negatives are that the app isn't as simple or fully featured as the Sunsynk, but honestly once I had it set up and trusted that everything is working as planned, I don't even open the app or the web monitoring console anymore. Edited January 23, 2023 by AgentMulders mzezman, Solarbaby, WannabeSolarSparky and 1 other 4 Quote
mzezman Posted January 23, 2023 Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, AgentMulders said: Update after 4+ months of operation is that the system works like an appliance, haven't had to change anything or even draw power from the grid. I've switched the grid on about once a month just so it registers that I still exist but at most it uses 1kwh when I do. The inverter stays cool, the batteries stay cool, and I'm able to spend a night cooking and baking and running my slow cooker and air conditioner and still have about 50% battery remaining in the morning when the sun comes out. I was worried a few times when it was raining and cloudy but that just meant the batteries charged up slower with the latest charge up to 99% being 4pm. I haven't even updated my geyser schedule on the CBI astute, it runs 10am to 2pm every day no matter the weather. I'm really impressed with how it's changed our lives, with my house becoming the unofficial Pretoria office for my loadshedding-afflicted colleagues that don't want to drive to the Joburg office Only negatives are that the app isn't as simple or fully featured as the Sunsynk, but honestly once I had it set up and trusted that everything is working as planned, I don't even open the app or the web monitoring console anymore. This is the way old man joe 1 Quote
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