Max1 8k 92.04 original did well over the night. no AC Out Phase losses.
PV Startup did well at 90v and amps continuously climbed up.

But locked in (as expected) at 90v with 50% PV loss.
i will keep 92.04 until tomorrow to see what happens with F80

8:43 Grid breaker off
3P1 & 3P2 MPPTs jumped up double watts
3P3 MPPTS still stuck at 90v, stay at 15 & 33 watt, should be at least 80w each.

to be continued ...
 

09:39 Grid breaker on, 3P3 MPPTs went up a little
09:41 Grid breaker off, 3P3 MPPTs released from Lockin at 90v and went to real watts

Edited December 9, 20223 yr by mjmx8k

Version 92.04 Original:

Survived today without F80 but with known PV power deficits due to sticky 90v.

15:07 Grid Breaker on

15.59 PV down to 0 v w a

16:16 PV startup again from athmospheric reflections, go up to 100w

16:26 all 6 MPPTs rdown to 0,1 Amps each.
Exactly this moment AC Out Phase 2 and 3 Power loss for 10 seconds

13:34 all 6 MPPTs finally off for the day

So i think that already original Firmware 92.04 has this basic problem and the patches intensify the behavior somehow.

Maybe related to the newer DSP chip compared to Georgs chip.

Is there maybe a newer Firmware 92.xx for the Max1 8k 28066 available wotth to try?
I think it makes sense to first try with newer original firmwares to get system stability first before looking into 90v issue, or adding patches one by one and see what intensifies the 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

So i think that already original Firmware 92.04 has this basic problem and the patches intensify the behavior somehow.

Or it's a hardware fault. Fault code F80 is CAN bus comms failure from memory (I had one myself yesterday, the first one ever). It could be on the small paralleling board at the bottom of the inverter.

It might be worth purchasing a paralleling kit (these have one board and one or each type of cable). Mark the new ones (board and cables) and replace board and cables in various inverters to see if it fixes the fault.

These boards contain several opto-isolators; Voltronic seem to use a particularly cheap and nasty part that is quite marginal at times. Optos also seem to deteriorate with age, more so than other semiconductors.

Regarding the F80 error (you are right it is CAN bus comms failure) I had two inverters in parallel operation which started to throw this error gradually (like 6 months no error and then it started to appear more often) without any change in cabling and/or software settings with the same firmware they came from factory. When throwing an F80 error, the inverters went to bypass and stop working in parallel (this should be normal it avoids the risk of them working out of phase).

I also suspect a hardware failure on the parallel boards because in standalone operation there is no error whatsoever (parallel boards still installed). 

It seems that there is a component regarding to CAN comms that is gradually deteriorating. Maybe the opto-isolators, or maybe a faulty capacitor on the opto's supply line and too much noise on the rail which can also lead to comms problems. It's winter here and I have no means of investigating this further at the time. Will try to hook up my oscilloscope to the parallel board in spring/summer to see what is going on on this boards.

It may also have something to do with induced noise in the paralele cables. Extra shielding them seemed to improve it a bit. 

Does anyone has the schematics for the parallel boards and the CAN comms circuitry from there to the controller?

 

5 hours ago, mchiriciuc said:

It seems that there is a component regarding to CAN comms that is gradually deteriorating. Maybe the opto-isolators, or maybe...

My bet would be the optos.

5 hours ago, mchiriciuc said:

Does anyone has the schematics for the parallel boards and the CAN comms circuitry from there to the controller?

https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=6007&p=90479#p90479

Today was running stable.
Zero AC Out faults and zero F80
just strong 90v sticky issue snowfall weather.

there was no F80 yet with 92.04 Original
 

15 hours ago, Coulomb said:

My bet would be the optos.

https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=6007&p=90479#p90479

I think your bet is the wining one.

If the optos are degrading after less than a year of service.... damn, I just hope the invertes will work enough to pay for themselves. 

TI makes also great isolated can transceivers wich cost less ten 1$ more than the SN65HVD230D and are automotive grade and in four years of working with them in automotive environments none failed. It is really a shame. But without any competition in this price range there will be no reason to strive for an increase in quality.

Thank you for the link on the schematics and for all your effort. Greatly appreciated. 

Today F80 early in the morning after the first MPPT stop at 7:50, again when all MPPTs came down to 0,1a

@Coulomb
when sending Q7{: i get NACKss, tried 2 different terminal programs.

Is it theoretically possible to make in the Firmware a MPPT startup Voltage of 120v and a minimum 0,3a and disconnect MPPT below?

Both, the AC Out power losses and the F80 are always triggered exactly at the point where MPPTs come down to 0,1a

----------------

For testing i disconnected both CAN cables of 3P1 and lateron of 3P2 during running for almost a minute and did not get a fault...

I have 2 CAN boards here originally packed from my MKS4. They fit, so i could change them, but i do not think a optocoupler is worn out, especially as i already rotated 3P1 with a brand new inverter and only this one show Fault and F80 while AC Out losses are always on 3P2 and 3P3. 

so i am very confident that any "situation" of the MPPTs causes the F80 and AC Out losses and its not primary caused to the CAN boards but more to a power sag or similar to these boards in a certain situation.

On 2022/12/12 at 4:57 AM, mjmx8k said:

@Coulomb
when sending Q7{: i get NACKss, tried 2 different terminal programs.

Ah, I forgot that the display will get in the way, and censor any unapproved commands.

To see the result from either a QBOOT or Q7 command, you'll need to bypass the display with a special cable, details are in this post. [ Edit July 2024: It's far easier to use the ATE0 command; search AEVA for "ATE0" for details. ]

On 2022/12/12 at 4:57 AM, mjmx8k said:

Is it theoretically possible to make in the Firmware a MPPT startup Voltage of 120v and a minimum 0,3a and disconnect MPPT below?

Both, the AC Out power losses and the F80 are always triggered exactly at the point where MPPTs come down to 0,1a

.So you're saying that at least for your particular inverter(s), you want the MPPT to die at 0.3 A, so as to avoid the F80 problem that seems to always happen at 0.1 A?

If so, sure, it's possible. I'd like to wait for the MPPT stuck at 90 V to be sorted first.

Are you sure you want to change the minimum PV voltage to 120 V? It might curtail production unnecessarily.

Edited July 26, 20241 yr by Coulomb

i first do some more testing.

unfortunately i cannot go up the roof at the moment (snow) to modify Panels of 3P3

i plugged out all the modules of the PV overvoltage protective devices as they have common grounding to house and inverter earth, maybe one is leaking. also i keep disabled Panels of 3P3

hardly try to rule out any possible fault and find a point where system gets more stable.

Finally got a response with the attached zip file. The initial zip suggests that they've sent 57.60 for me to flash to. Haven't tested yet as I don't want to then be locked to the modern flasher. Also not sure if this fixes the issue as of yet. Should I flash?

 

I've removed the step by step as this took me over the 3mb limit.

Reflash.zip

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by JDAVIES94

5 hours ago, JDAVIES94 said:

Finally got a response with the attached zip file. The initial zip suggests that they've sent 57.60 for me to flash to.

Yes, it's firmware version 57.60 for the Axpert Max 1 11 kW. It comes with the older reflash tool, so that targets the older '2809 DSP chip. It seems hot off the press; the dsp.hex file is dated 13/Dec/2022, yesterday as I type, and that's only because it's now 2am here.

Of course, it still has the premature float bug, and the MPPT code at first glance appears identical to all the rest.

5 hours ago, JDAVIES94 said:

Haven't tested yet as I don't want to then be locked to the modern flasher.

This isn't the modern flasher, and if you use the wrong flasher, nothing too bad happens. (Unlike with display firmware).

5 hours ago, JDAVIES94 said:

Should I flash?

I think you should, to get a base line of behaviour. Hopefully soon we'll have a consensus of the best way to patch the MPPT part of the firmware, although that may be pretty solid already. 

@Georg594
@Coulomb

by reading your thread about plugging off the mppt cable from the help supply board:

could this MPPT voltage spike be related to the help supply PCB?
this spike is exactly the same time as the AC OUT power loss

shall i give it a try to plug off the cable from the helper supply board on all 3 inverters?
any way i dont care about batteryless as 3phase setup cannot work PV only.

hint about dessmonitor: changing language once to something and then back to english solves the missing parameter.name / real.language issue

 

20 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

could this MPPT voltage spike be related to the help supply PCB?

Yes, that's the point.

20 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

this spike is exactly the same time as the AC OUT power loss

It could be that the MPPT spike is a result, not a cause, of the AC out power loss. We know that the MPPT resets to not clamping at 90 V when you change operating modes (line to battery or vice versa), but that the MPPT sometimes tends to go back to clamping shortly after. So in your graphs above, it looks like the MPPT is clamping all the time, except for that one point, which might be related to a mode change, or some other event that has the same effect as a mode change.

 

20 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

shall i give it a try to plug off the cable from the helper supply board on all 3 inverters?

Yes, I think we can only learn from this. I can't see harm from it. Although I confess to not fully understanding the high voltage SCC hardware or firmware.

OK, tomorrow i will flash all 4 to 192.04 175v and plug off cable and report what i will get.
as panels are covered with snow its perfect for 90v testing at the moment

I am since yesterday afternoon on 192.04 175v and Solar cables plugged off from Helper PCB and it looks veeeeery promising.

Its snowing and this is how the panels look. they do in this situations 680 watts!

AC Out is stable
No F80

All in all, it looks like a HUGE improvement already now...

 

As we have very stable "bad" weather and guaranteed no sun irradiation changes, i think there is still some kind of "locked in by amps" and not locked in by volts:

in this chart - for absolutely no weather related issuse - suddenly the watts jump from 70 to 177
it looks like the MPPT did not find a better point for long time and suddenly found.

so maybe there is still space for more optimizarion of the MPPT code

 

4 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

All in all, it looks like a HUGE improvement already now...

Great to know.

4 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

Its snowing and this is how the panels look.

It's amazing to me that any light gets through that snow.

4 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

As we have very stable "bad" weather and guaranteed no sun irradiation changes, i think there is still some kind of "locked in by amps" and not locked in by volts:

But that's not how solar panels work. The available panel current is essentially proportional to the light intensity, and doesn't vary much with load. The voltage however depends on how much you load it.

The fact that the voltage remains fairly constant and well above 90 V is a great sign. The sudden apparent jump in PV power comes from the sudden jump in PV current. The data are affected by the current being reported in units of 0.1 A; with these low power levels, the reported current is very quantised. Despite this, I think that the sudden jump in current is caused mostly by a change in usable light. Even though it may look like it's constant to you, the panels may be seeing a sudden jump in usable light, and hence PV current.

In other words, I think you're now getting close to all the available PV power now. You were limited by the voltage previously, and now you're no longer so limited.

Edit: As a point of interest, is it feasible to melt the snow from the panels with a garden hose? Or would the water from the tap be frozen anyway? Or maybe it just takes too long, or it's just too miserable outdoors to attempt such a thing. You can maybe tell that I live in a vastly different climate, where we never see snow.

Edited December 16, 20223 yr by Coulomb

I looked on the panels again and It looks like snow slipped downwards on the panels and opened them partly. maybe this caused the sudden amps change. i will closely monitor this the next days.

currently snow falling down from sky is faster than me with a water hose and i should use salt water.
hopefully the weather to become a bit warmer the next some day and maybe will melt down a bit.

sorry, there are no kangaroos in Austria 🙂

stressed the system today a bit for almost an hour. at the time when pv is close to problem time i used 8kw load on 3P3, some AC Units heating on 3P1 and 3P2, Computers running on P1, ... 15kw peak load.
switched grid off / on, to BATT, to SBU, ...

ALL WAS WELL! no AC OUT losses even on SBU SUB changes, no F80
I really hope the system continues perfectly stable like today.

2,9kwh today in worse weather compared to 0,9kwh yesterday




Thank you @Coulomb
Thank you @Georg594
 

9 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

ALL WAS WELL! no AC OUT losses even on SBU SUB changes, no F80

That's great, but I don't see any connection between our MPPT tinkerings and fault code F80.

I suppose that there might be a connection with removing the power supply connector, but that's a really big stretch.

I hope it continues to work for you.

if the helper supply board or the mppt board is buggy and gives spikes to the MPPT this results in changes of the bus voltage.

such sudden changes managed to create AC OUT losses and in this case the F80 is even a correct reaction.
i think it just needed enough millisecond of AC Out loss to make F80

just a theory

still working well

The Grid "power on" is still blocking the MPPT:

see the chart pink line.

grid off, Panel voltage and watt up,
grid on, panel voltage and watt down:

its a 100 volt difference!

another cable to pull?  🙂

ARGHH, and this power switch caused now an F80

Correction:
the reason for this F80 was not the Grid Off ON but it was another Spike +95v in MPPT1 of 3P3

Edited December 17, 20223 yr by mjmx8k

5 hours ago, mjmx8k said:

The Grid "power on" is still blocking the MPPT:

Is this factory or patched firmware?

16 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

Este acest firmware din fabrică sau corecţionat?

Look, first photo, yesterday, with the connecter in, the voltage goes up and down, 2nd photo, today, where is the red line, there i disconnected the cable, working awesome. The mppt closed with 1 hour late then yesterday.