Hello everyone!

this forum seems to have a lot of knowledge around axperts!
I am in need of some assistance.

I have bought and installed a Voltronic Axpert MKS IV 5.6kw (not an easun nor any other brand, i bought it as original).
I have connected 6 JaSolar 405W panels in series (37 VOC) and AC IN, but not batteries yet!

With just the PV in Inverter powers up just fine and all looking good (200-215 PV voltage).
As soon as i try to turn it on the Inverter beeps every 3 seconds twice. (Derated output power ? )

No output at all from the inverter. Isn't this inverter supposed to work without batteries?
This happens with either AC IN and PV  connected or with PV alone. 

If i leave AC in without PV in -> Load powers just fine
If i connect a 48v battery (i had one from a scooter laying around) with PV connected - > Load powers just fine.

No errors visible on the LCD screen. Just beeping twice every 3 seconds.

Also although my Inverter is new, i see 1664kw in total generated PV in the display.
Shop tech i bought it from has not seen this problem again.

Any help will be appreciated as i can't afford right now any batteries.

 

Edited October 18, 20223 yr by Leog
resolved issue

@Steve87 is the guy to contact.

@Leog   short answer : yes you definately  can.

Long answer : yes you can, but understand some important constraints. 

I did same thing initially , kodak mks3 with panels only.  I will communicate with you here over the weekend should you not have answer by then. 

The first question i have is what are your expectations? ,what do you want to achieve? what  are the scope and type of loads you want to serve with this machine.? 

 

 

Edited October 14, 20223 yr by BritishRacingGreen

1 hour ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

@Leog   short answer : yes you definately  can.

Long answer : yes you can, but understand some important constraints. 

I did same thing initially , kodak mks3 with panels only.  I will communicate with you here over the weekend should you not have answer by then. 

The first question i have is what are your expectations? ,what do you want to achieve? what  are the scope and type of loads you want to serve with this machine.? 

 

 

Hey mate, yeah let me say what i am trying to achieve here.

My endgame is to have a system with batteries (around 10kw) and with panels up to 5kwp. Grid will be backup if batteries/solar is not enough.
I selected the Axpert MKS IV with that the above in mind and also because i can go gradually there.
I have setup a secondary load panel in my house which at most it will peak at 4kw, so the 5.6kw of axpert will be enough. My daily consumption is around 7-10kw.

I couln't buy batteries right from the beginning neither i could afford all 5kwp of panels. 
So i bought what i could for starters.

Without batteries the plan was to run it with the 6 panels (2.4kwp) and Grid supplement. 
Run the heavy loads during the day while the sun is shining so the panels do the heavy lifting, and power the house from the grid at night.
If the load is above what the panels offer the Grid is supplementing the load. I know the axpert does this.

Next i would either buy batteries or more panels to reach my endgame. But i would do this gradually as i save some money (next 12months).


Right now the inverter with 2.4kwp of panels can't even power a 70w lamp, as it constantly beeps and not gives any output (0v), and this is with AC in also connected. As soon as i connected the scooter battery it worked.



 

Edited October 14, 20223 yr by Leog

Hi, 

 

On axpert max 8 kW you will need to have a minimum of 320v pv input to work without battery, maybe same Limitations on your Inverter

 

 

55 minutes ago, Georg594 said:

Hi, 

 

On axpert max 8 kW you will need to have a minimum of 320v pv input to work without battery, maybe same Limitations on your Inverter

 

 

This would make more sense than anything else. Manual isn't saying anything of a minimum pv voltage to support battery less operation.

Look at this product description(8kw)

 

(In German )

There is an information that battery independent works for only for 320-450v solar input.

 

24 minutes ago, Georg594 said:

Look at this product description(8kw)

 

(In German )

There is an information that battery independent works for only for 320-450v solar input.

 

Yeah it does say so, do you have personal experience on this? 
Original Voltronic manual doesn't say anything on the Axpert MAX 8kw.
I have already ordered another 3 Panels going to 315-330 VOC from 205-215 i am now

Edited October 14, 20223 yr by Leog

Heya, so the 5,6kW has a min voltage of 120V, so the 207V on your PV should be ample to run the system... Have you got the battery type set to anything specific like "LIC" or "PYL"? Otherwise, do yourself a favor and connect to the unit with a PC and a Data USB. With Watchpower or Solarpower you should be able to get a readout of issue. There is also a Phone app, either way you should be able to extract the info you need from there.

 

I hope this helps!

Psy.

 

4 minutes ago, Psy said:

Heya, so the 5,6kW has a min voltage of 120V, so the 207V on your PV should be ample to run the system... Have you got the battery type set to anything specific like "LIC" or "PYL"? Otherwise, do yourself a favor and connect to the unit with a PC and a Data USB. With Watchpower or Solarpower you should be able to get a readout of issue. There is also a Phone app, either way you should be able to extract the info you need from there.

 

I hope this helps!

Psy.

 

I have the battery to user defined. But it should not make any difference i suppose as it no battery is connected!
Watchpower with WIFI , does have 2 alerts that don't make sense as i had no battery connected when recorded. 
 

 

15 hours ago, Leog said:

I have the battery to user defined. But it should not make any difference i suppose as it no battery is connected!
Watchpower with WIFI , does have 2 alerts that don't make sense as i had no battery connected when recorded. 
 

 

Hi @Leog  my  own pv input is 215vdc open circuit. Should be fine on your inverter too. 

What is your Output Source Priority set to, it should be SUB.? 

 

On 2022/10/13 at 9:11 PM, Leog said:

With just the PV in Inverter powers up just fine and all looking good (200-215 PV voltage).
As soon as i try to turn it on the Inverter beeps every 3 seconds twice. (Derated output power ? )

Even if there is no load connected? 

If you have pv only and no ac input, then if you have loads with inrush current demand, eg. Fridge or compressor etc the pv may or may not not be able to supply the surge. But if you have ac input, then the ac will blend and fill the valleys left by the pv. 

Example with my 4.6kw pannels i can run 3 or so  air compressors. BUT i cannot even startup one with pv only, because the surge demand is somethin the pv cannot cope with. It needs the ac or battery augmentation. 

Edited October 15, 20223 yr by BritishRacingGreen

11 hours ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

Even if there is no load connected? 

If you have pv only and no ac input, then if you have loads with inrush current demand, eg. Fridge or compressor etc the pv may or may not not be able to supply the surge. But if you have ac input, then the ac will blend and fill the valleys left by the pv. 

Example with my 4.6kw pannels i can run 3 or so  air compressors. BUT i cannot even startup one with pv only, because the surge demand is somethin the pv cannot cope with. It needs the ac or battery augmentation. 

Yeah beeps with no load and doesn't output any voltage.

Does the same with AC input and Pv. No output at all. Plan was to work it with ac Input and Pv together from the start in order to blend.

12 hours ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

Hi @Leog  my  own pv input is 215vdc open circuit. Should be fine on your inverter too. 

What is your Output Source Priority set to, it should be SUB.? 

 

Yes SUB

Sorry I don't get it. What do you want to achieve? Axpert MKS models are off grid and designed to work with battery. They cannot blend PV input with utility. It's either Utility or battery mode. Battery is a must if only as a buffer for load surges. But how about load shedding during nights?

5 hours ago, Beat said:

Sorry I don't get it. What do you want to achieve? Axpert MKS models are off grid and designed to work with battery. They cannot blend PV input with utility. It's either Utility or battery mode. Battery is a must if only as a buffer for load surges. But how about load shedding during nights?

I think I want to differ. The MKS iv is a 450V MPPT and can thus blend PV and grid. It does not need a battery. But as you say - what about night time. I would also use a small battery to be able to start items like a fridge.

5 hours ago, Beat said:

Axpert MKS models are off grid and designed to work with battery. They cannot blend PV input with utility.

That's only true of the MKS 1 models. From Axpert MKS II and higher, as well as Axpert VM II and higher, MAX and possibly other models, they have the ability to run without battery (unless paralleled), and can blend PV and AC-in power.

5 hours ago, Beat said:

But how about load shedding during nights?

Candles will be required until he can afford a battery, yes.

2 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

That's only true of the MKS 1 models. From Axpert MKS II and higher, as well as Axpert VM II and higher, MAX and possibly other models, they have the ability to run without battery (unless paralleled), and can blend PV and AC-in power.

Thank you for that information.

2 hours ago, Coulomb said:

That's only true of the MKS 1 models. From Axpert MKS II and higher, as well as Axpert VM II and higher, MAX and possibly other models, they have the ability to run without battery (unless paralleled), and can blend PV and AC-in power.

Candles will be required until he can afford a battery, yes.

Yeah its candles for me if Load shedding happens until i get a battery.
But does anyone have any possible idea why it doesn't work? 
Do i need more panels for batteryless?
Maybe i have a problematic unit?

I am waiting for an official response from the shop i got the axpert. Have contacted Voltronic directly.
I am already thinking i should buy a Deye already, and somehow return this to the shop.
 

2 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

I think I want to differ. The MKS iv is a 450V MPPT and can thus blend PV and grid. It does not need a battery. But as you say - what about night time. I would also use a small battery to be able to start items like a fridge.

 

@Scorp007I am proud of your statement. I have watched you defend its operations & all I can say is that maybe your have become a High Voltage Axpert fan 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Ok maybe I have taken it too far. 

@Leogpost your menu settings, I bet there is a setting preventing this operation. Post them here...

A Deye inverter cannot run batteryless without the Grid. The Grid must be present. It runs on a Grid tied Architecture. 

51 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

@Scorp007I am proud of your statement. I have watched you defend its operations & all I can say is that maybe your have become a High Voltage Axpert fan 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Ok maybe I have taken it too far. 

Thanks Steve. The HV Kodak has a place as you know the best. Although not in this game I just like facts and not fiction - HAHAHA. 99% of PPL won't get along with a Solis grid tied and 2.4kW Axpert but they serve me well.  Some members also rather upgrade an Axpert when the PV input is too low but I am happy using my external MPPT with lithium profile. Just today with LS I switched my Solis string into the Axpert and exceeded the normal PV input into it and used my micro and heat pump - NO PROBLEM.

1 hour ago, Steve87 said:

@Leogpost your menu settings, I bet there is a setting preventing this operation. Post them here...

Is there an easy way to dump all settings? Also the inverter had logged 1664kw in total Pv energy generated which doesn't make sense. Maybe its not a new unit and had some weird settings.

 

Maybe I should start from a factory reset.

OK, so we have 9 Axpert V IVs running in parallel to create a massive 3-phase inverter system that runs without batteries. With enough PV you will get supplementary power from  the system and it should work without issue. Don't get me wrong, we do get the odd error related to "Host loss" or "CAN error" but usually there is at least some kind of error code or log to narrow down the issue. If the source alarm is disabled as shown below, then I'm not to sure what the issue is without looking at it in person:

 

PS. If you want to show all the settings, the PC version of Solarpower does put all these settings on one convenient screen that can be screenshot...

4 hours ago, Psy said:

OK, so we have 9 Axpert V IVs running in parallel to create a massive 3-phase inverter system that runs without batteries. With enough PV you will get supplementary power from  the system and it should work without issue. Don't get me wrong, we do get the odd error related to "Host loss" or "CAN error" but usually there is at least some kind of error code or log to narrow down the issue. If the source alarm is disabled as shown below, then I'm not to sure what the issue is without looking at it in person:

 

PS. If you want to show all the settings, the PC version of Solarpower does put all these settings on one convenient screen that can be screenshot...

I did change this 25 setting to ON after your suggestion. Also changed some battery related values, but i am sure it doesn't matter overall.
I tried again today to open the inverter and as soon as i put a load before it starts beeping it worked. 😂
Not confident it won't do it again. 

Dang this was unexpected! 

Now i am trying to find out the high Utility consumption. My PV array is 6x405W JaSolar in series.

Time was around 15.30 afternoon ( in 3hours sun has set)
House load -> 200w -> Utility 240 -> Pv 60 ( inverter consumption around 100w?)
House load -> 1000w -> Utility 150 -> Pv 950 
House load -> 2400w -> Utility 950 -> Pv 1650 (inverter consumption 200w?)

I am measuring the Utility Watts with a Shelly 3EM wifi meter. 


What i find hard to believe is that when load is low, it consumes most of the energy from Utility.
Also on high load the inverter seems to be having a consumption close to 200w (give or take).

Are these findings correct?
Will try to put a usb otg to dump the settings and logs later today.