27 minutes ago, Hyarion said:

With the fixed monthly fee, in order to recover the cost of the prepaid meter in under 2 years, one needs to reliably export 14+ kWh per day (year round - so approx. 5,000kWh per year). 

And that's a lot if you also want to keep batteries charged. COCTs proposal would more attractive if we didn't have to mitigate against load shedding.

That said, I think they have pushed this about as far as it can go.

 

17 minutes ago, Mako said:

If I was a ruthless city engineer, I'd allow feedback and at a decent rate...........then in five years I'd point to the small print and cut the rate to very little and I'd have gotten everyone to install substantial solar with enabled feed back and enjoy the ride. The thought has crossed my mind that the feed in tariff may fall once everyone was on board. I think this has happened in other countries.

Yep. It's worth remembering that any proposal  that is put before us now should be filed under E for emergency. Once we get some stability, cities and Eskom themselves will shed regulations that don't suit them, and retain anything that does. The latter should also fall away, but they will take the view that it's up to you to hire bigger, badder lawyers than they have and pursue the matter through the courts.

Edited January 26, 20233 yr by Bobster.

Who wants to give their energy away anyway when so many people are just stealing it. 

If you rent out a garden flat though you can put your own meter in there and get full rate for your PV. 

1 minute ago, Chris_S said:

Who wants to give their energy away anyway when so many people are just stealing it. 

I've said it before, and I mean it: I would give my excess production away if it didn't cost me anything to do so. That won't hurt my pocket, and if enough people did that then maybe it would make a difference.

AFAIK the feed in incentive subsidy is only there until June 2025.  Thereafter the rate drops as the extra 25c/kWh will fall away. 

Furthermore, if you install solar now, you won't be approved before June 2023 - maybe even later (given how long my current approval is taking). So you'll have less than 2 years to profit off this incentive. 

So, awesome for people already feeding in. But keep this in mind in your calcs if you're installing a new system and calculating your ROI.

Consumption charge: Residential SSEG  & (1) 118.4420 kWh @ R 2.2856          270.71
Generation Offset     ( 1199.379 kWh X R 0.7898 )                                                 947.27-
Generation Offset Incentive   ( 1199.379 kWh X R 0.2500 )                                   299.84-
Service charge                                                                                                        185.00
& AMI access charge                                                                                                83.65

The council paid 707.75-

My normal account is between R3500 - R4500 if I only run on Council

Should I take R3500 lowest + 707 = R4200 per month saving.

3 months and meter is paid.  Think what no one should miss is THERE ARE NO LIMITATIONS.  to feedback

And soon we will get another 18% increase. Thus the 78 will increase to 92 next year another 13% or 104.0052 per Kwhr

In 2025 the incentive may be gone but the increase due to Eskom increase will compensate for that.

You can not beat this as the choice is very basic:


1    DO you pay Eskom and council

2   Load your roof and use their money to pay for your solar.

3 Years later and you smile

In my case my solar complete is paid in full in 3 years.  a Total of 15Kw inverter and about 30 panels (what ever) .

This means the the savings is cash in hand now that they can pay us back.  In my case after taxes ... it is about R1700 at this moment and then the next bit will be substantial.

It pays not to pay those that steel and miss mange the country poor.

If you simply do it to take money away from the useless politicians you have done a good deal for yourself and the country.

 

Regardless of what

 

 

 

.

Edited January 26, 20233 yr by NoJ

10 minutes ago, NoJ said:

 "Think what no one should miss is THERE ARE NO LIMITATIONS.  to feedback"

There are limits depending on your supply amperage and number of phases.

 

.

 

1 hour ago, Mako said:

If I was a ruthless city engineer, I'd allow feedback and at a decent rate...........then in five years I'd point to the small print and cut the rate to very little and I'd have gotten everyone to install substantial solar with enabled feed back and enjoy the ride. The thought has crossed my mind that the feed in tariff may fall once everyone was on board. I think this has happened in other countries

All CoCT has to do is announce that the introductory incentive will be coming to an end, and revert to the NERSA-approved tariff only. Poof, there goes your payback period.

32 minutes ago, Mako said:

 

Nothing stopping you to get a 3 phase supply @ 120A per phase.Then do the maths....

52 minutes ago, sgs said:

AFAIK the feed in incentive subsidy is only there until June 2025.  Thereafter the rate drops as the extra 25c/kWh will fall away. 

Furthermore, if you install solar now, you won't be approved before June 2023 - maybe even later (given how long my current approval is taking). So you'll have less than 2 years to profit off this incentive. 

So, awesome for people already feeding in. But keep this in mind in your calcs if you're installing a new system and calculating your ROI.

You have good faith in the politicians not to increase and steel.

If a 1000 homes put back 6Kw per day it is 6MW.  Its rain drops that fills the dams and the oceans. 

I think they estimate there are 2000MW PV available and climbing.

4 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

if half the houses sitting on the transformer you're connected to are trying to export, I see sparks, flames and smoke emanating around the neighbourhood in general

Sounds kind of apocalyptic.  My google search for such events came up with nothing.  Perhaps you can assist...

 

4 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

I have two mates, with whom I have discussed the feed in issue extensively, Rob from New Zealand and Ian from Australia

Gosh and there I accused you of making it all up! (I assume that they are both competent professional engineers...)

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

Sounds kind of apocalyptic.  My google search for such events came up with nothing.  Perhaps you can assist...

well, it depends on the gear trying to export, if they're happy to up the voltage to 300V or more, I think things will start smoking, so more likely no-one will be able to export since everyone's 50W feed in added up together is likely to get the line voltage up to 260V, which will make some inverters disconnect from the line already... but hey, try it and see what happens, please report your findings here...

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

Gosh and there I accused you of making it all up! (I assume that they are both competent professional engineers...)

Yes they are, and I guess I can add some more retired power plant engineers, all coal fired, I'm afraid, who also have had enough experience in this field, also from Australia and North America, so no local expertise, but I suspect electrons behave pretty much the same all around the globe...

On 2023/01/25 at 10:53 AM, Mako said:

CofCT feed in tariff appears to be R1.04/kWh. Depending on how one looks at it, it could be very good. ROI might take a while but it can be recovered.

Self consumption with a battery pays even more and no more load shedding.

Edited January 29, 20233 yr by system32

On 2023/01/26 at 5:13 PM, Mako said:

I think they estimate there are 2000MW PV available and climbing.

Based on my estimate on the value of PV equipment that were imported in 2022 about 58000 installations were done. Just in 1 year. 

On 2023/01/26 at 2:09 PM, Mako said:

If I was a ruthless city engineer, I'd allow feedback and at a decent rate...........then in five years I'd point to the small print and cut the rate to very little and I'd have gotten everyone to install substantial solar with enabled feed back and enjoy the ride. The thought has crossed my mind that the feed in tariff may fall once everyone was on board. I think this has happened in other countries.

 

I don't think there's anything in a published set of tariffs that implies that this is the way it will be forever after. Tariffs are updated annually, as the City decides.

Fully offgrid people aside

Why would you invest in a 10-12k meter and R100 plus per month fixed fee to get R1 per kWh, WITHOUT a long term contract protecting the R1?

If you can buy another battery (in my case 3.6kWh @ R20k) and save your extra energy for use when they charge you R3 per kWh and climbing?

I will consider this if the meter is free and the fixed fee is part of the current fixed fees. 
 

I am still trying to wrap my head around a smart meter at R12k that needs a R100 pm meter reading fee. How smart is that meter?

Edited January 31, 20233 yr by daniemare

33 minutes ago, daniemare said:

I am still trying to wrap my head around a smart meter at R12k that needs a R100 pm meter reading fee. How smart is that meter?

Can't speak for CoCT, but NMBM uses a bi-directional meter with SIM card and GPRS antenna regularly sending your data to the municipality's data centre.

As a side note, around 2 years ago NMBM suddenly stopped billing its solar users, and it turned out some admin oke at the muni seemingly couldn't understand why these SIM cards needed to be paid every month, so he stopped paying it, and the service provider duly cancelled all the SIM cards.

On 2023/01/26 at 2:02 PM, Mako said:

Most want to feed in to reduce their monthly bill and that's it. Anyone that wants to make money from feed in will come up against a hard limit depending on their supply rating.........

Yes. I rattle on about "making money". but you're right that a profit is not really the aim. Reducing your bill is the aim.

I still won't export here in COJ. Even if I'm not expecting to actually profit, I can't see how, with the cost of the meter and the current tariffs, I can export without it costing me money. 

Even if the requirement to be a net purchaser were waived in Johannesburg, there's still the monthly fees and the cost of the meter to overcome. I can't see how a person can do that unless they replace the swimming pool with a pebble bed reactor.
 

1 hour ago, daniemare said:

Fully offgrid people aside

Why would you invest in a 10-12k meter and R100 plus per month fixed fee to get R1 per kWh, WITHOUT a long term contract protecting the R1?

If you can buy another battery (in my case 3.6kWh @ R20k) and save your extra energy for use when they charge you R3 per kWh and climbing?

I will consider this if the meter is free and the fixed fee is part of the current fixed fees. 
 

I am still trying to wrap my head around a smart meter at R12k that needs a R100 pm meter reading fee. How smart is that meter?

Depends how you look at it. If your panels are never idle there is no point. If your panels do go idle for a significant part of the day then it may be worthwhile. CoCT have not indicated there will be a monthly charge for a bi-directional meter and they hope to supply it at R5k. Reducing the bill is the aim.

Do they also refund VAT on that 1.04 per kWh?

16 hours ago, Mako said:

Depends how you look at it. If your panels are never idle there is no point. If your panels do go idle for a significant part of the day then it may be worthwhile. CoCT have not indicated there will be a monthly charge for a bi-directional meter and they hope to supply it at R5k. Reducing the bill is the aim.

If you have idle, and resucing yiur bill further is your aim - Buy another battery and get R3 / kWh guaranteed (and with escalations). 
 

Yes a sub R2k meter might change the sums. But even at R5k, with monthly fees and no guarantee, why?????

What I also foresee when having this new meters is that a fixed energy availability fee is not to far off. A change that will be implemented last for traditional pre-paid meters. So there is these ifs and buts to consider too. 
 

I will bet good money, that once you are on that new meter, you cannot revert back to you old billing setup. 

Edited February 1, 20233 yr by daniemare

18 hours ago, Bobster. said:

Yes. I rattle on about "making money". but you're right that a profit is not really the aim. Reducing your bill is the aim.

I still won't export here in COJ. Even if I'm not expecting to actually profit, I can't see how, with the cost of the meter and the current tariffs, I can export without it costing me money. 

Even if the requirement to be a net purchaser were waived in Johannesburg, there's still the monthly fees and the cost of the meter to overcome. I can't see how a person can do that unless they replace the swimming pool with a pebble bed reactor.
 

So I just did some quick calculations. If you take the cost of the meter out of the equation then I'd have a small but worthwhile saving each month if I were on the domestic user tariff. The meter is the killer unless you can export a lot each day. OTOH if you already have the right meter installed...

I've been thinking about meters. My latest theory: the municipalities won't fit meters with the bi-directional feature enabled (even if it's built in to the meter) because if they did, folks like me would export all they can to force the matter to go backwards and thus effectively get refunded at the full price per kWh. 
 

33 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

So I just did some quick calculations. If you take the cost of the meter out of the equation then I'd have a small but worthwhile saving each month if I were on the domestic user tariff. The meter is the killer unless you can export a lot each day. OTOH if you already have the right meter installed...

I've been thinking about meters. My latest theory: the municipalities won't fit meters with the bi-directional feature enabled (even if it's built in to the meter) because if they did, folks like me would export all they can to force the matter to go backwards and thus effectively get refunded at the full price per kWh. 
 

Only asking and after the 18% this year & 12% next year?

I recon the payback  by 2024 "should be" R1.044 per Kw no subsidy and the low rate of the City should be R3.0264.

That is if they apply 18 and then 12%. 

I mean a 30.2% increase going to be something for many.

Not 100% accurate calcs but close enough.

Currently the more you can export the more they will buy from you.

I generate more 2MW per month and its quite something  if  you do the calcs.

I can buy a small car with insurance from the amount I am saving that I do not have to pay the council.

I can tell you your theory in the case of the COCT is for sure wrong.

Saying this I have a few more than 12 panels and 3 inverters

They never complained and I can assure you every .01C has been taken into account by the council.

On this I must credit the COCT regardless of who said what they have been more than fair with whats been put back not only for me but for those we assisted to push back and that is quite a few kw.

 

Edited February 1, 20233 yr by NoJ

For me the main point is that I want to oversize my PV generation so that I have enough to buy little to nothing from the city at nearly R3/kWh.  This means I will sometimes have excess generation capacity and I can either not harvest it (and get nothing) or sell it to the city for R1/kWh.  It doesn't make that much sense to me to install PV for the sole purpose of selling the power. 

The primary purpose is to meet my own needs as far as possible and then the calculation is R3/kWh for a substantial portion of the generated power and a R1/kWh "bonus" for power I can't use anyway.

Something I would like to say is over the past few years we have saved more than a R150 000 in cash.For me spending a few $ on a meter and a few on solar not everywhere where you get that for doing notting ey