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Kodak 5 Kva Inverter


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Hi Guys, I installed a Kodak 5kva Inverter and 2x 2.4kw Pylontech Lithium batteries for a client. The client has informed me that since the installation his electricity consumtion has increased by 400W daily, and he is concerned about this. I cannot answer this query for him, Does anyone have an explaination of why this is?

He has also mentioned that the Fan in the inverter runs most of the time, and why is this happening?

 

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Thank you Francois, Yes this is what I also mentioned to the client, However he has questioned, why should it be using electricity while there is no Load Shedding, surly it will only consumes when charging the batteries after load shedding etc?

Also questions why does the fan in the inverter run so much?

Yes Tariq it is used solely for back up purposes, Load Shedding. He is considering installing PV at a later stage.

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22 hours ago, David27 said:

The client has informed me that since the installation his electricity consumtion has increased by 400W daily,

Do you mean an energy consumption of 400 Wh per day, or 400 W of power continuously? I would not expect it to be as high as 400 W, more like 35 W if it's not working hard. That's some 840 Wh per day, or 0.84 kWh ("units") of electrical energy. It doesn't sting so much when you have panels to offset that self-consumption.

I assume you would be in ECO mode most of the time, so utility power just passes through. That would consume the least power. The power it uses is to drive the processors and electronics, including the relays that pass power through to the load.

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47 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

Do you mean an energy consumption of 400 Wh per day, or 400 W of power continuously? I would not expect it to be as high as 400 W, more like 35 W if it's not working hard. That's some 840 Wh per day, or 0.84 kWh ("units") of electrical energy. It doesn't sting so much when you have panels to offset that self-consumption.

I assume you would be in ECO mode most of the time, so utility power just passes through. That would consume the least power. The power it uses is to drive the processors and electronics, including the relays that pass power through to the load.

What I understand from the client, is his Electricity consumption has increased by 400Wh per day and this is his question as to why that is..?. And this is every day whether there is Load Shedding or not, so YES it would be in ECO mode most of the time, just the utility power passing through.

It does make sense that having Panels will offset the self-consumption.

Is it normal that the fan runs most of the time..? While the unit just has the utility power running through, the processors, electronics and relays are not working...??

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@David27, had a look at some of your other posts and seems like you are quite new to the solar/inverter thing but know your way around conductors and such but are in bit of tight a spot. So my quick 2 cents.

with the inverter currently running basically as a UPS there are a number of things that can still affect the inverter drawing power but you will likely need to post some of the current settings for those more knowledgeable about the Axpert type inverters (which I am not) to identify what (if any) the actual problem might be. 

Most likely the 0.4kWh is the inverter's idle consumption to keep itself going (maybe explain to the client that in the absence of solar power the inverter is still powered from eskom to "stay awake").  It could be things like a battery voltage settings that continually keep charging the batteries. The inverter might actually be set up to use the grid more easily than you think. If the grid is unstable (voltage/frequency) the inverter possibly disconnects from the grid and starts inverting for a while (even if power does not actually go off) and then charges the batteries (probably very unlikely at that small consumption level).

Unfortunately I have no idea how often the fan will come on, if at all, while "idle".

I suggest posting more detailed info about the install (single / three phase, inverter settings like SOl, SBU etc, any other peripherals (ICC monitoring/control), install location (small unventilated cupboard under the stairs) etc.

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18 minutes ago, introverter said:

@David27, had a look at some of your other posts and seems like you are quite new to the solar/inverter thing but know your way around conductors and such but are in bit of tight a spot. So my quick 2 cents.

with the inverter currently running basically as a UPS there are a number of things that can still affect the inverter drawing power but you will likely need to post some of the current settings for those more knowledgeable about the Axpert type inverters (which I am not) to identify what (if any) the actual problem might be. 

Most likely the 0.4kWh is the inverter's idle consumption to keep itself going (maybe explain to the client that in the absence of solar power the inverter is still powered from eskom to "stay awake").  It could be things like a battery voltage settings that continually keep charging the batteries. The inverter might actually be set up to use the grid more easily than you think. If the grid is unstable (voltage/frequency) the inverter possibly disconnects from the grid and starts inverting for a while (even if power does not actually go off) and then charges the batteries (probably very unlikely at that small consumption level).

Unfortunately I have no idea how often the fan will come on, if at all, while "idle".

I suggest posting more detailed info about the install (single / three phase, inverter settings like SOl, SBU etc, any other peripherals (ICC monitoring/control), install location (small unventilated cupboard under the stairs) etc.

Hi, yes I am very new to Inverters, Solar PV etc. I am however a qualified electrician, qualified in 1979 Olifantsfontein.

I was working for a Electrical Contracting Company, doing mainly Factory Maintenance work and Commercial Installations, and a bit of Domestic as well.

However I was laid off at the beginning of the Lock down in March, and being in my 60's it is not easy to find employment, sadly most companies want the younger guys. Therefore I decided to try doing Inverter Installations, of which I have already installed 5, all without any problems and fully compliant, besides of course this particular one that has some minor faults. 

The one I am currently installing, is required to have PV as well, and this is my very first PV Module Array Installation. (Solar Panels) I have been offered assistance, advise and guidance by Tariq in doing so.

All other advise and help is VERY Welcome.....

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10 minutes ago, David27 said:

besides of course this particular one that has some minor faults. 

Not necessarily faults. Actually occured to me that the most likely source of that idle consumption could be the fan/s, but I must say I doubt I would notice a 0.5kWh increase in daily electricity consumption! 

Hopefully some of the members with kodaks, axperts etc. will have more clarity on the frequency of the fan coming on. (also have a look through the forum for topics like Axpert inverter settings, Axpert and Pylontech etc. to get a comparison of what kind of settings/options there are and how that compares to this particular install)

slightly off-topic, but I suggest familiarising yourself with the CoCT approved inverter list, SSEG requirements etc. before hooking up inverters and PV for a client - when PV gets added into the mix where Eskom/City of Cape Town utility power is also involved the levels of complexity/rules etc. go up quite a bit.

hang in there!

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5 minutes ago, introverter said:

Not necessarily faults. Actually occured to me that the most likely source of that idle consumption could be the fan/s, but I must say I doubt I would notice a 0.5kWh increase in daily electricity consumption! 

Hopefully some of the members with kodaks, axperts etc. will have more clarity on the frequency of the fan coming on. (also have a look through the forum for topics like Axpert inverter settings, Axpert and Pylontech etc. to get a comparison of what kind of settings/options there are and how that compares to this particular install)

slightly off-topic, but I suggest familiarising yourself with the CoCT approved inverter list, SSEG requirements etc. before hooking up inverters and PV for a client - when PV gets added into the mix where Eskom/City of Cape Town utility power is also involved the levels of complexity/rules etc. go up quite a bit.

hang in there!

Great stuff, Yes I will do. Thank you so much.

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14 hours ago, introverter said:

Hopefully some of the members with kodaks, axperts etc. will have more clarity on the frequency of the fan coming on.

I have a pair of old PIP-4048s, equivalent to Axpert MKSs, and the fans on these are almost totally quiet (though still running at 30% of max output), until the inverter or the solar charge controller does some work (more than 30% of rated power). At 50% of rated solar power generation, the fans are at 50%, at 70% of inverter operation, the fans are at 70%, etc.

I assume that the King would be the same (but it would be great to get confirmation from an actual King user). So for the fans to come on noticeably, it may be that you're not in ECO mode, but in line mode. You can tell the difference from the LC Display; the dotted line from AC-in to load will come on, with the word BYPASS visible as well. If there isn't a direct straight line from AC-in to load, then you're likely in line mode, which will also have higher self consumption (the PFC stage and the inverter stages are then both switching and passing current, so you get switching and I²R losses respectively).

You want the straight line in the green rectangle, as opposed to the 4 kinked lines near the red arrow:

 

LC Display ECO v Line.png

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26 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

I have a pair of old PIP-4048s, equivalent to Axpert MKSs, and the fans on these are almost totally quiet (though still running at 30% of max output), until the inverter or the solar charge controller does some work (more than 30% of rated power). At 50% of rated solar power generation, the fans are at 50%, at 70% of inverter operation, the fans are at 70%, etc.

I assume that the King would be the same (but it would be great to get confirmation from an actual King user). So for the fans to come on noticeably, it may be that you're not in ECO mode, but in line mode. You can tell the difference from the LC Display; the dotted line from AC-in to load will come on, with the word BYPASS visible as well. If there isn't a direct straight line from AC-in to load, then you're likely in line mode, which will also have higher self consumption (the PFC stage and the inverter stages are then both switching and passing current, so you get switching and I²R losses respectively).

You want the straight line in the green rectangle, as opposed to the 4 kinked lines near the red arrow:

 

LC Display ECO v Line.png

Good morning, Thank you so much for the information, I will be going to see this client on Tuesday or Wednesday. I will check to see if this is in Line Mode, if so? how would I change it to ECO Mode?

I am trying to find information on settings for a system using this Kodak (Axpert) 5Kva Inverter and 2x 2.4 pylontech Lithium-ion Batteries, it is currently just being used for a Load Shedding back Up. The client is looking at installing PV Solar panels to the system.

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Operation mode
Description
LCD display
Standby mode
/ Power
saving mode
Note:
*Standby mode: The inverter is
not turne d on yet but at this
time, the inverter can charge
battery without AC output.
*Power saving mode: If
enabled, the output of inverter
will be off when connected load
is pretty low or not detected.
No output is supplied by the
unit but it still can charge
b atteries.
Charging by utility and PV energy.
Charging by utility.
Charging by PV energy.
No charging.
24

I think the above relates to the info you sent, ECO mode = Power Saving Mode, and Standby Mode = In Line Mode?  In this case the "Power Saving Mode" should be enabled..? 

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1 hour ago, David27 said:

ECO mode = Power Saving Mode

No, I don't even know if the King actually has a power saving mode. That's where it pulses the inverter on for about a tenth of a second every few seconds, and only starts properly if it detects more than about 100 W load. That only makes sense in really specialised applications, never for a home.

For ECO mode, I think all you need is setting 10 (Operation Logic) at ECO, and setting 23 (Bypass function) at byE (bypass enabled).

I see that the default for setting 10 is Aut, which will select line mode unless the frequency is unstable, in which case it goes to bypass. This is likely your problem. Bypass is enabled by default.

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40 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

No, I don't even know if the King actually has a power saving mode

 

25 minutes ago, David27 said:

as this is the Exact Inverter. Kodak

@David27 lots of confusion here, as you never said which model you have.  Kodak sells many Voltronics- the King, MKS, etc.  From the manual you linked to I think that yours is the MKS II (high voltage MPPT)

The settings that @Coulomb referred to are for the King, where Bypass/ECO is an operational mode that bypasses double conversion "line" mode.  The MKS II does not have this mode.

Edited by Calvin
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16 minutes ago, Calvin said:

 

@David27 lots of confusion here, as you never said which model you have.  Kodak sells many Voltronics- the King, MKS, etc.  From the manual you linked to I think that yours is the MKS II (high voltage MPPT)

The settings that @Coulomb referred to are for the King, where Bypass/ECO is an operational mode that bypasses double conversion "line" mode.  The MKS II does not have this mode.

Hi There, I do apologise for the confusion. I just received earlier this morning from my client that this is in fact the actual Kodak. And, Correct it is not the KING. I only found on Program 23 that the Bypass is set on Default. As you have mentioned that this Unit does not have this Mode.

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2 hours ago, David27 said:

https://artsolar.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/OGX-5kVA-Installation-Manual.pdf

(The Above) This is where I was looking up the settings, as this is the Exact Inverter. Kodak

Ah. So it's an Axpert MKS II-5K-48. Then my diagram doesn't apply to your client at all.

I don't know why the fans would be running more than 30%, which is barely ticking over. I would not want it in my bedroom, but otherwise, it should be quite quiet.

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On 2020/09/16 at 4:50 PM, Chris Hobson said:

Perhaps the newer inverters are more efficient

I very much doubt it.

Quote

or the quiescent consumption is lower in bypass mode.

They are. The DC-AC converter is a big chunk of idle consumption. I forget if it's about 1/3 or 2/3.

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On 2020/09/13 at 1:13 PM, Calvin said:

The settings that @Coulomb referred to are for the King, where Bypass/ECO is an operational mode that bypasses double conversion "line" mode.  The MKS II does not have this mode.

Good morning all, I called in to take a look at the inverter that was installed for a client of mine. I must apologise  to Coulomb and others for the confusion. The inverter is in fact a Axpert King as per Coulomb's. 

After cutting the utility supply, and only the inverter running, (He has a Gadget that records his electricity consumption)  it showed that there was if fact 480W of continuous power drawn by the inverter. Could it be that this inverter is faulty?. He is very unhappy about this and insists that the inverter is faulty and says I should replace it. It is also in fact NOT in bypass mode either. Is there any suggestions as to what else I can install for him?. He also said that a friend has a Victron and this only uses 30W. 

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