Jaco De Jongh Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Evening all, I have read through a post on a similar problem that someone else had, but just cant seem to find it again. I started up my system end of last week and between 9 and 10 every morning my Prepaid meter trips and shows a "Unsafe r" fault code. Monday morning I decided to switch of the supply to the invertor and have been running like that ever since, First had to complete some other work on the system and this morning I had time to look into that issue again, switched the power back on and about the same time it tripped again. I remember reading about some settings that needs to be changed and saw some screen shots of settings. Those settings are not available in my software while the Invertor is connected. Only in offline mode can I access those settings. I am using a 4KW Infinisolar V Axpert Can someone please assist? Thank you all in advance.. Jaco Edit: Update Just for someone that might need this info and don't want to read through everything. The Infinisolar V, for now, might interfere with some prepaid Meters in a grid-tie scenario. At first I thought my problem was caused by the Unit trying to feed back to the grid even though the setting to do so was disabled. With a lot of testing I realized that it only happens when a big load like an Iron or Microwave ext Switches off or cycles. It seems like the Meter then sense some kind of Back EMF, and this causes the meter to Switch off, showing a "Unsafe R" fault code. In my case its a Ecolec 570. Not good news if you've got one of these. Spend a big part of today on the phone with CBI who use to manufacture these units. Its been discontinued 8 years ago and has a build in Reverse current Protection. Spoke to 4 guys from 4 different CBI branches and all 4 had the same answer. There is nothing they can do, no codes no remedies. That protection can not be bypassed as is wasn't part of the design to ever allow reverse current. (I am going to try some noise filters and hope to solve the issue - Will update soon) Alternative options in Limpopo. Replace with PLC Prepaid Meter at your own cost for R2200. Asked them to put me back on a conventional meter and they refused. Too many people not paying their account. I read about problems with a CONLOG meters. For more on that, please look at the discussion below. Jaws 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 @Wetkit was the guy with the Infini and the Conlog meter. I looked into this last week because I also have a Conlog meter, and as it turns out, I have precisely the affected model. So this thing has a feature: It can detect back current. It can even measure it if so configured, but generally your supplier won't do that. If you push back more than 40 watts it will trip. It will turn back on after 50 seconds or so, I think. From a cursory reading of the manual, it seems as if overload/reverse decisions are made based on an average flow over a 10 second window, so that short bursts of push back (appliance turning off and the limiter requires a few cycles to react) should be manageable. I don't know this for sure, it just seems reasonable and possible. I believe Wetkit did something to his inverter's configuration, but it was a troublesome process of literally saving every setting once you made it and making sure it stuck. I believe the setting is similar to one found on the Microcare grid limiter: You can set whether it should aim for 0W, 40W, etc. By setting the inverter not to aim for zero (and potentially overshooting a bit) you avoid the problem. Pretty certain the search function should help you find it. viper_za and Jaco De Jongh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdiy Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said: Evening all, I have read through a post on a similar problem that someone else had, but just cant seem to find it again. I started up my system end of last week and between 9 and 10 every morning my Prepaid meter trips and shows a "Unsafe r" fault code. Monday morning I decided to switch of the supply to the invertor and have been running like that ever since, First had to complete some other work on the system and this morning I had time to look into that issue again, switched the power back on and about the same time it tripped again. I remember reading about some settings that needs to be changed and saw some screen shots of settings. Those settings are not available in my software while the Invertor is connected. Only in offline mode can I access those settings. I am using a 4KW Infinisolar V Axpert Can someone please assist? Thank you all in advance.... Jaco Hi Jaco Please give us more info about your inverter - the 4KW infini? On the 3KW infini there is a setting in the software where you can adjust the feedback calibration - if I remember correctly Wetkit fiddled that value until the meter stopped tripping. But I would really like to know more about the 4KW infini. ___ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 @superdiy It is a Axpert Hybrid 4 KW Inverter / Charger. It was re-branded by Full Circle Solar. Don't know what else I can tell you, If you need something more specific I will supply you with the info. I am also not sure about the Software. It arrived without a CD and after phoning the supplier I received an e-mail with a Download link. The software I downloaded is called SolarPower. They said that this inverter is from the newest range and that the software is still being developed. I am not sure what to believe. Is that what the other Infini or Axpert guys are using or Should I use something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If it uses SolarPower software it is a rebranded Infini rather than a rebranded Axpert. An Infini can grid-tie whereas an Axpert cannot. I think that is is a GTI feedback error. Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 @Chris Hobson Thanks for that info, I am confused about all the models. This is the full description under what it was sold to me. Axpert Infinisolar V-5K-48 - 4000W GRIDTIE Pure Sine Wave Inverter. I planned a glorified UPS with backup when I ordered this from Takealot, not having an idea of what this machine is capable of. When it arrived, my plans changed very quickly and now a little bit more than a month later, I am basically off the grid. Just my geyser still connected to Municipality Supply. I just wish I had done more homework before I started. Never planned to go solar until this unit arrived at my place. When I first googled the prepaid tripping issue last weekend, I saw this forum and decided to join. If I had done it before I started buying everything, I might have approached it differently, but i am not regretting my decision for one moment. I did mail Full Circle Solar as well, Hope to get some clarity on this issue in the next couple of days. Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said: I just wish I had done more homework before I started. Bit difficult when what you think you ordered is a UPS and you receive a Grid Tie Inverter (GTI) with battery backup. BTW what did the inverter cost? You have a very good system there. There are plenty of folk who would not mind installing your system by accident (me included). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 In Cape Town if you want to legally go grid tie the meter is upgraded to handle such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Chris I Bought it for R16074, and I might have not express myself correctly, I knew it was a Inverter , but only wanted to use it as a UPS with some batteries connected to it. I wasn't at all interested in going off the grid and did not really look into what it can do. The price matched my budget and I bought it. During the same time I chose the Trojan T105 without knowing how popular they are and I phoned around and accidentally reached one of the direct importers of Trojan. He sold it to me at a price that I could not match any where else. R14600 per bank of 8. TTT I will talk to the Local Municipality , maybe it can be done, but in Limpopo its not that easy getting any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said: ... but in Limpopo its not that easy getting any help. Best you guys then vote right next time ne. You have a chance in August. But the flip side of Limpopo: Don't ask for permission. Play dumb. Deny everything. Blame Jan van Riebeeck for installing the meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said: Chris I Bought it for R16074, Hmmm..... If that is genuinely a 5K that has just knocked TTT's Victron temptation on the head. I see your signature says 4k. If I could combine batteries and gennie to get 5k then I am home and dry I would need nothing more for my home install (5k inverter and a doubling up of my battery bank). The fortunate thing is that my current battery bank is eventually destined to supply my labourers' cottages so I can double up and will not lose the investment I have already made in my current battery bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 @Chris Hobson When I look here on Voltronic site it seems to be this rangehttp://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=172 If you compare them to the other infini we know they just use the same kind of MPPT as the Axpert not the one that uses high PV voltages like the other infini we have seen around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Chris just for your info. Maybe this can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 @viper_zaIs the lower MPPT voltage better in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 2 hours ago, viper_za said: @Chris Hobson When I look here on Voltronic site it seems to be this rangehttp://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=172 If you compare them to the other infini we know they just use the same kind of MPPT as the Axpert not the one that uses high PV voltages like the other infini we have seen around here To me that not a problem since my system is already set up for the lower MPPT voltages. I would like the bigger brother though the 5000w version which still has the lower voltage MPPT. I see there is a Infinisolar E 5.5kW unit but it has the higher MPPT voltages. The hassle would come if I were to expand. I have 6 panels per frame so a string of 6 would be a logical step. However I would then need six panels rather than the three I am contemplating adding to my install. On the plus side I would not be oversizing my array as the unit can take 4kW of panels. My only sadness would be losing Ed's software. Yes I am sure there will be an Infini version but I so love the "look and feel" of my current version. I thought Voltronic might follow this route when I was tossing up between the Infini, Axpert and Imeon a year ago. Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said: @viper_zaIs the lower MPPT voltage better in your opinion? I'm not 100% certain about it but I seem to remember people saying it's more efficient when converting directly from PV(DC) to AC volts. This I believe is true for most grid tied inverters but since the one you are using is a true Hybrid not just grid tied it needs to be best of both worlds. I don't see a problem with this. Did you set the inverter to not feed back to the grid in the settings on the inverter itself? Looks like option 9 if I have the correct manual http://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/files/manual/InfiniSolar V 1KW-5KW manual 20160517B.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 @viper_za I have disabled that function , but did not help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 @Chris Hobson Yes this one seems to be the same as the Axpert MKS 5kVA with the grid tied functionality and a very good price. Sure we can source this cheaper than what takealot can sell it for. Real tempting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 @viper_za Full circle Solar is supplying the units to Takealot and they are selling for the exact same price. If you find it cheaper, please let me know, I am planning to buy my second one. I believe in redundancy and sharing loads. Rather have 2 units running at 50% capacity than having 1 running at 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 34 minutes ago, viper_za said: @Chris Hobson Yes this one seems to be the same as the Axpert MKS 5kVA with the grid tied functionality and a very good price. Sure we can source this cheaper than what takealot can sell it for. Real tempting You telling me. If I were to design a inverter that is exactly what I would want. Will scout for the 5kW V series version. 4kW is hardly worth my while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Pakistan based solar supplier R21k rand equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 The 5k unit can take 2 PV arrays, 6000Watt if I am not mistaken. Also an attractive future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flltech Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 This model is like Infini but some differences exist. Infini model can work with or without batteries. In this model, batteries are compulsory just like Axpert inverters. In this model, you can connect up to 6 inverters in parallel. So effectively you can expand 4kW model to 24kW system. Jaco, what is the maximum load you have given to this inverter. Any other issues you faced apart from tripping with prepaid meter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco De Jongh Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 @flltech I gave it about 3600 watts for a test. the most that went through for a short period was the second day I was testing, I was doing around 2000watts when the Garden Services pluged in and started their Lawnmower, It took it just over 4000watts but gave 1 alarm for overload and that was it. Only other real frustration is the fact that I can not access My Power Manager with the Inverter connected. And my software does not record detail. cant go back and track stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flltech Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 @Jaco de Jongh Do you mean using SolarPower, you are not able to record data? or are you talking about another software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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