LLawrence

Ok Guys to answer your questions on how to be eligible for the Solis S6 6KW Advanced Hybrid giveaway Valued at R 22,994.25 Vat Included
You have to be a Power Forum Member obviously. @Energy-Jason will Post a Link to a Random Lucky Draw Application that you register on with your email address and contact details. We will deliver the inverter to you if you are not close to Pretoria or Cape Town however we will require a pictures of you unboxing the inverter. You will automatically become a real world product tester for Solis they will require some feedback from you from time to time they will also monitor your system. We will Require you to have the Product Installed by a qualified Installation Electrician because it comes with a 5 year warranty. We also request that you make a bit of noise about your prize on social media platforms sponsored directly by Solis South Africa and Powerforum Store (PTY) LTD To the Winner Congratulations !!!  The Lucky Draw is Completely Random we do not sit and pick and choose a winner it has to be completely unbiased so that is fair for everyone participating
Good Luck may this Awesome inverter find the right home!!  
 

Hey Guys Check the New Prices on the Magneto LFP Batteries price changes loading for the Super Caps soon... and solar panels etc... remember we don't yet list everything we can supply on the online store so if there is something related to solar power wind power and all accessories please don't hesitate to contact us we offer very good prices and also installers are welcome to get installer prices on a lot of the products like the Magneto Specials we are running.
www.powerforum-store.co.za 

During a cold winter, what more could we ask for!

During a cold winter, what more could we ask for!

Hey Guys so its that time of the year again and we have a whole Host of Giveaways lined up some to watch out for would be the New Solis S6 6KW Advanced Hybrid (Beast) we are busy with a long term review in real world conditions with the Solis S6 the Unit we are giving away has already gone through a preliminary review but we may give more of this brand away in the future. 
Magneto has given us some wonderful product to review and give away MAGNETO Lithium-LiFePo4 Rack Mount 48V 5.1 KWh also note the great prices on those units  and a  Magneto Thermo Tank also promise of more nice items to give away in the future. 
Then we Have the Revo Inverter and battery Combo (not listed on our online store yet but soon) there will be some terms and conditions on this giveaway however an exciting product squarely aimed at Sunsynk and Deye.
We are also receiving a very nice Battery from Halo Energy to give away the 113AH HALO Eclipse WM-5 48V 1C however this will only be in about 5 Weeks time but still a very nice compact battery.  
Power2SA is giving us one of their VTC Vxl5100W 5.1kWh LifePo4 battery 51V/100Ah Rack Mount to review and test this is also a very nice rack mount battery with Bluetooth and WIFI features decent cycle count compatibility and scalability and we will give this away to a lucky forum member. 

During a cold winter, what more could we ask for!

Hi all - yes click-bait like topic for good reason.
Before I decided to write this particular post I also scoured this forum and noted that various users are having quite frankly unacceptable levels of SOC issues with all kinds of batteries even Pylontech and other "reputable" brands - so I'm starting to think that the majority (i.e. not all but 50-60%+) of the batteries and new makes and models that seem to land on our shores every other day, are simply not suitable for our unfortunate and insidiously unique power problems here in SA - I'm talking about frequent loadshedding, multiple times per day for 2-6 hours at a time, depending on where you are fortunate or unfortunate to be in our country.
Those that would like to follow previous long CFE discussions can view them  here  and I have a very long (sorry) but complete view of my installation, how I use it and the dreaded SOC drop from 40%-10% in 5 minutes or less or worse still 40% to 0% almost instantly here
For those that don't to go read them, a very summarised version is bullet pointed below which doesn't give you 100% context - so if you're going to ask questions or tell me I'm 'stupid' without referencing important info in the original post(s) - be warned - I'm called the TheMafiaMan for a reason...🤣
8kw DEYE inverter 2x CFE 5100s batteries setup as 30% restart 20% battery warning and 10-15% Shutdown. Final Battery setup will be 20kWh of storage via 2 more 5.12kWh batteries to be added in 2023 still. The system is protected by 200amp keto fuses and each board has surge protection as well - the house sits behind the inverter because A) I want clean pure sinewave power to all my plugs, lights and screens and B) fridges and appliances with inverter type motors are all better protected that way too. Your electronics will thank you. I charge the batteries @40amps so roughly 2kWh have experimented with 20amps and even 75amps - for my use case for now 40amps is my sweet spot giving my inverter head room to still run other higher draw loads when the batteries are charging. No solar currently, only used as a storage system to facilitate work from home and a "normal" quality of life (8.1kWh solar array is being commissioned) 6kva diesel Genset (dedicated generator room for Genset and fuel - already wired in with manual change over) just finishing off sound isolation, ventilation and then will automate change over with the dry contact and Gen feed-in on the DEYE Inverter Finally Eskom connection will capped off once solar is in and run in my own "Islanding" setup where I am my own "Utility provider". Let me start by pointing out that my supplier for all my equipment mentioned is Solar Advice - solar.co.za and that they have been only helpful, support providing and quick to execute where CFE keep dropping the ball - silver lining they will be sorting out my problem without fanfare - the way a reputable business should and I keep recommending them over and over.
From my side I agreed to go through not one but 2 firmware updates with the "overseas - team" at CFE, resulting in about 75% of my frustrating 2+ weeks of irritability.
Let's get on with it - two plus weeks of frustration, hair pulling and plenty, and I do mean plenty of potty mouth later - I now have the latest CFE-5100s firmware on both of my batters and the great news is...
I am at least 50% worse off than before, cannot make it through 2hrs of loadshedding with 10.24kWh of storage and less than 2kWh load, and those that are good at math that means? Yup 79-80% and then 3% 3-5min later, and then off. Unacceptable by any standards - I mean are there a few AAA batteries inside my two 5.12kWh LiFePo4 units.....???
But this doesn't really paint the whole picture so let’s start in Nov 2022
November 2022 system is commissioned and installed. Batteries are charged from +-56% to full over about 3hrs at 30amps or roughly 1.67kWh - for the Mathematically/Electrically inclined, 1602watt to be precise - DC wattage and AC wattage are not 1:1 parity 30amps at 53.4v is 1602watt - I was not charging my batteries at 6.6kw - if you think that, then this thread is not for you! load$hitting had not hit its full stage 6 stride at that time, so think mixes of stage 2/3, 4 and 6. Batteries were being used and run down to about 80-85% in stage 2 over 2 hours with mixed loads ranging from 1-2.5KWh and 55-60% in stage 4 or 6. We had no interruptions and not a single error or problems. We had a 12hrs long load$hitting event twice in the Dec/January and batteries hit 41% with a very OCD (me)controlled 350-450w/h load on these specific occasions – again no problems. Then we got into full stage 6 load$hitting 3 times a day - yep, I live in an area where we got 9-12hrs per day, day after day. Finally but irrelevant to the SOC issue like many other CFE and Raytech battery owners I had the 100%-90% cycle which I didn’t particularly have a problem with – go read the long post I made, to understand why – batteries should not sit at 100% for hours and days on end – I hope you have a fire extinguisher near – more info about that in my long ramble as well – go read it! This is when the problem reared itself for the first time between 40-38% left in the tanks and the inverter would either throw anything from a F56DC_VoltLow_Fault usually followed by but no exclusively F58BMS_Communuication_fault to even one or two F59AC_V_GridCurr_High Fault – for this discussion the most frequent by an overwhelming margin is the F56DC_VoltLow_Fault just as or about when the system hits 11/5% or 3% whichever the Chinese battery lotto gods deemed fit that day and then off.
The First update which required the inter-battery comm cable to be disconnected - took less than 3 min OTA (over the air) – each battery has a WiFi Module and independent battery monitoring software that can only seem to report voltage correctly as confirmed with a Voltmeter - but is useless at doing anything else.
I was instructed to cycle the batteries a few times between 10/15% and 100% and Monitor it.
The looping 100-90% discharge had changed to a 100-95% loop but again refer to my first long post (yes this current one will probably become known as the longest waffle on this forum – hopefully I’m a little entertaining at the very least) I still didn’t take issue with that.
1 week later the batteries now don’t cut out at 40% but now “gracefully” (intended sarcasm) go from 80-60% in 3min flat, then on to 50% at a leisurely pace and then when they hit 43% descend rapidly form there to 30/20/10/5/3% and then dead in 5-10min.
CFE stop responding in our happy little WhatsApp group containing expletives of me telling them everything from "they don’t know anything about BMS implementation, firmware and code writing" to how generally useless they are in responding to real issues – this goes on for the rest of the week.
They then announce how sorry they are ("Sorry Dear"??? I'm not anyone's darling/dear), that there WhatsApp wasn’t allowing them to log back in but that they had triumphantly a “new” firmware that would sort out all my trouble 😊
Disconnect comm between the two batteries again, never hear form them for another day but during the early evening get plunged into darkness because the batteries are flat and now to add to my annoyance charge from 0-100% in 45min going form 40-80% in 5min because can you guess why? They’re completely unbalanced – remember the inter-battery comm cable is disconnected waiting for the firmware update that never happened, and I now spend the next 2 days manually discharging each battery – via voltage control not BMS (by now it should be apparent to you that the BMS is $hit) and then charging each one individually, paralleling them again and reconnecting comms etc.
Firmware the 2nd finally happened on Tuesday this week – remember the one that will solve all my trouble😊 – batteries turn off after a successful OTA - Firmware update complete.
100-95% cycle now replaced by 100% and no cycling – hmm not too happy about that but I have other things to do, like work… and then Load$hitting that night 6pm - and 18min later plunged into darkness – 100% to flat - yes my troubles are truly over!
By now some of you probably have an idea as to what is the root cause of at least one of the problems – their BMS is beyond $hit – how do I know? Read on…
With torch in mouth while hurling profanity (I am quite talented you can tell) I disconnect everything to a safe point, reconnect only the master battery i.e., 1 of them and start everything up – switch to voltage monitoring mode to bypass the BM$hit (see what I did there) and apply a 4.2kWh load which runs for a whole 50min before the battery enters a fault mode and the solenoid disconnect trips – Thank god that actually works. Inverter shows voltage dropped below 47.9 (my own setting) and therefore the battery is at 5% or less.
Wash, Rinse, repeat – do the same with battery 2, the slave – and run for about 70min with a mix of 2/3.5 and 1.1-kWh loads during that time and then click - solenoid disconnect trips at 47.8v.
This all after the BM$hit declared that they where both flat to my poor DEYE inverter almost 2hours prior. By now I'm sure the inverter has developed or is developing schizophrenia.
Luckily by this time the power is back on and both batteries are at 1-2% each so I reconnect, re-parallel the batteries and connect the inter-battery comms and let the unit charge up in BMS mode (shocked I'm using the BMS again? There is a method to my madness) @40amp so 2.01kWh and monitor.
3hrs later we’re at 61% - great that is more or less correct, but then it all goes to $hit once again as 61-83% happens in about 10min and then 83-100% took 45min further – confirming my “rubbish BMShit” hypothesis in both directions conclusively. I did this 2 more times in both directions to confirm. Confirmed – in case you’re wondering - exactly repeatable.
I worked out on some spreadsheet – because I have time to kill like that – TheMafiaMan remember. At best, I can get about 6.5 maybe 7kWh of usable power out of my 10.24kWh storage but not without a massive, probably warranty voiding and time consuming workaround as you've seen above. Sorry, not good enough – I allow for 10% DoD as per the manufactures spec or maybe that should be claims. I paid like many people, a lot of money for storage, one of if not the most expensive single components in your system and I will not accept 60-70% and of that completely unreliable capacity – neither should anyone.
Anyone who has read this far – congratulations – but you must also by now agree, enough and no more. Which is exactly what I communicated to SolarAdvice – who have been privy to my WhatsApp “consult” with CFE and agree that I’ve exhausted all options.
I have options that I will be exercising and that is getting rid of CFE off my property once and for all – but this is basically a warning to all and sundry.
STAY AWAY from the CFE product – A properly working, reliable and trustworthy BMS in a LiPo, LiFePo4 and the like is non-negotiable.
You shouldn’t have to wonder if you can make it through 2hrs of loadshedding because the data you get from one of the most expensive items in your alternative power solution is “wonky” at best.
Unless you like dancing with fire – literally - and have a few chemical fire extinguishers on hand – you should have at least one with any large Lithium-xxxx-insert-your-particular-battery-chemistry-here anyway, but right now – for me, these represent a substantial electrical and fire risk to my property and the vehicles in my garage. I’m 100% not prepared to roll the dice on either side. Besides the fact that if you’ve followed my rant this far (thank you) this is not a workable use case and why I’ve had to postpone the Solar Array until I have reliably working storage solution.
As my intro eluded, this seems to be a far wider reaching issue cropping up on other battery systems too – so like others I’m left wondering what my options for a reliable battery brand are. One that can provide a battery system suitable for the SA market with our unfortunately unique power situation that actually works…
My Short list so far is 10-15kWh, 1C discharge rate and 10yr warranty
SolarMD’s 14.3kWh battery. Freedom Won 15/12 battery -  but not so sure I'm onboard with Local-is-lekker - Solar MD are supposedly also local but I know of a couple of installations    with both brands that are more than 12-18 months old and have had zero issues with the batteries, so I'll need to investigate some more -  there is at  least one horror story which seems like a 5 year old model with 470+ cycles that is basically dead and FW cannot offer replacement cells because they're EOL(end of life) according to the comment placed this guy purchased 5 x 30/24 units which he must have sold organs for    LG Chemistry – I don’t believe I will be able to source or afford it – at the moment rated worldwide as one of if not the best, but a 16kWh unit is almost the cost of a Tesla Powerwall think €9,377.00 sourced international with shipping and then add what ever bend-over-tax when it gets to SA and I'll most likely be at R220-240k+ and that’s without the Tesla’s already built-in inverter. You also need an installer with LG Chem Installer Certification and I've only found the 6.5kWhunit locally but no pricing from SegenSolar who to date have not responded to email or phone calls - I might try again. DEYE – I’m hearing good things, but they are also expensive – R38k-R43k for 6.14kWh (R6.1-7k per 1kw vs R5.2k I paid) - in Fairness if you pair it with a DEYE inverter they extend your inverter warranty to 10 yrs from 5yrs to match the 10yr battery warranty,  in essence you're paying for the 5yr extra warranty on your inverter so this is looking like an option but only if I can get a higher capacity single module between 10-15kWh will I consider this Sunsynk which is DEYE vice versa have a 15.97 LFP wall mount unit for about R96k so that is priced in my opinion more inline but I'm not sure if you get the same inverter warranty extension for a DEYE inverter because you do get an extra 5yrs on the Sunsynk invert... I’m not really interested in Hubble for personal reasons (but feel free to change my mind - also in the same boat with local is lekker - but I see that actual capacity seems to be questionable), anything with ESS in the name – I think CFE and few others are all the same 5.12kWh battery in fact wrongly or rightly so they’re unheard of in Europe, the US and Australia, both large markets for Batteries, which aren’t accepting inferior LiFePo4 and the like batteries onto their shores and we should be asking ourselves why.
The Only exception here is AlphaESS which SolarAdvice use to carry but no longer do and in hindsight while I was told the systems cannot be paralled to each other the 5kWh/10kWh Storage & Inverter Combo Smile5, is well documented and supported in Australia, Singapore and in some parts of Europe and the paralleling issue can easily be worked around by creating separate 5kW circuits and running separate subsystems - if I had to do it all over again which I cannot afford to do now, I would go this route because I have an honest Sparky and that means I would have split my solar array into 4x 2.025kw Arrays (2xMPPT per inverter) feeding 2 separate 5kw circuits with 20kWh of storage between the two and cost wise, would have come out about the same as my 8kw Inv. 20kWh(eventually) storage and 8.1kw Solar Array - However, I wouldn't attempt this type of setup with the majority of unscrupulous 'electricians/installers' I have had the displeasure of dealing with over the years.
Rant over - For now...
 
 
 

I have heard that Altergrid is in the process of ordering a set of brackets and busbars. You can print them your self if you want , STP file provided here http://www.cleverbms.com/list_11/89.html
 

To add on I would recommend the Luxpower from a scalability perspective, often times when specing a system you have an idea of what you essentially need backed up but as you start using it you may find that there are additional items you may want to power.

Like mentioned by @GMAC when you find that you would like to add items with heating elements such as kettle, toaster, microwave if you try using the kettle and microware at same time you will quickly reach the limit of the 3KW Growatt inverter. At this point when you want to upgrade the system you will need to but a bigger inverter and battery which is the bulk of your initial investment wasted.

Another thing to consider is the voltage difference between the 2 units, the Growatt being 24v would use double the amperage supplying the the same load as the Luxpower 48v Inverter. Meaning your batteries in the 24v system is going to be working twice as hard when supplying the same power.

Lastly the price on the Growatt with battery and panels, does this include installation and mounting hardware for the panels? If not the initial cost would most likely be greater than the initial setup cost of first doing the Luxpower setup. At a later stage, save up for solar panels, mounting hardware and installation.

Sounds like some of these newer meters are "crap" designs 😉
New is not always better, my eskom PAYG meter works just fine with my inverter setup and is always on even when I run out of credits. Only thing it cannot do is credit me when i FEEDBACK ever so slightly from time to time when big loads drop.

So my setup is very simplistic, basically a glorified ups. I can run most essentials (tv, lights, wifi, fridge) from it. My issue is that i'm moving soon to a bigger place with a pool and borehole. And only now discovered that the 3kva inverter cannot handle the borehole pump start up spike, i realize there are ways around this, ie replacing the pump with a more efficient/solar pump, but those things would not have been needed if i thought my purchase through a bit better

So first off i realise all these decisions are dictated by budget, so this will depend on your budget. But personally i would go for the bigger setup, my reasoning for this is that i decided to go with a 3kva trolley setup with 2.56kw hubble batteries, for financial reasons as well as because i currently live in a apartment. But after using it for a while now (and it does work great), the more and more i realise i would have preferred a bigger option that i could upgrade in the future.
Combine that with that the current trend of loadshedding becoming just slightly worse each year, planning your system around future loadshedding stages is in my mind the most prudent coarse of action. And might actually save you money in the end.

To add on I would recommend the Luxpower from a scalability perspective, often times when specing a system you have an idea of what you essentially need backed up but as you start using it you may find that there are additional items you may want to power.

Like mentioned by @GMAC when you find that you would like to add items with heating elements such as kettle, toaster, microwave if you try using the kettle and microware at same time you will quickly reach the limit of the 3KW Growatt inverter. At this point when you want to upgrade the system you will need to but a bigger inverter and battery which is the bulk of your initial investment wasted.

Another thing to consider is the voltage difference between the 2 units, the Growatt being 24v would use double the amperage supplying the the same load as the Luxpower 48v Inverter. Meaning your batteries in the 24v system is going to be working twice as hard when supplying the same power.

Lastly the price on the Growatt with battery and panels, does this include installation and mounting hardware for the panels? If not the initial cost would most likely be greater than the initial setup cost of first doing the Luxpower setup. At a later stage, save up for solar panels, mounting hardware and installation.

These people just RIP me off for R40000. Do not use them as they are a scam.

Well, make sure you have some additional lights, those kind that flash, makes a loud bang and is gone until you switch on the next one.

I have to agree. So while we helping ourselves by having PV systems they want high fees because we use less power and help them and the country. Then they want to spend big on rural areas to buy votes. Not have a will to improve and create better systems. 
Here i feel I will use what I need when it suits me and change based of the time of use. Somehow I don't belief in just want want want from others. It has to be a give and take plan. 

Eskom are welcome to incentivise the behaviour change, and I'll gladly take advantage of that (which is exactly time of use tariff as mentioned above, though I know zero about whether this is available to us lowly individuals).
Without that, I'll not be lifting a finger to help a failed SoE out of the goodness of my heart.

I spend good money buying products. Once bought it is mine and exclusively mine out of warranty.
I should have the right of choice for maintenance and repairs out of warranty.
In the US the right to repair has come a long way with many lawsuites helping that right along.
Still an uphill battle though in SA, car maintenance has been through a similar court action which actually found in favour of the consumer over the manufacturers.
No a perfect result but definitely a move in the right direction.
As for phones locked for repairs, many countries have started banning devices that consumers cannot maintain themselves.
Not happened in SA yet but then again we usually behind he curve with these sorts of issues.
 

I'm glad you have seen Louis Rossman's videos, I follow him and he speaks about the matter very well. 
Right to repair is an extremely important topic and I believe it should be upheld. My experience of process instrumentation, solar and general consumer goods industries is that the manufacturer makes their money in the sale of the product. Service and repair costs more than it's worth for these manufacturers in most cases. Why they don't support it is because they want to make a new sale!
The biggest misconception is that the right to repair is about allowing users to repair their own goods. It's about giving them the choice to have their goods repaired and not be beholden to the whims of the manufacturer.
As a consequence of profit generation by new sales and prevention of repair several consequences arise:
More waste is generated, typically e-waste which can be harmful and difficult to deal with More need for more raw materials for new products, the extraction of which can be damaging to the environment and communities Affects small business, repair techs etc by preventing them from (legitimately) supporting end users and as such Passes more costs onto end users I am deeply concerned overall about the long term consequences that this wasteful ideology creates. The long and short I believe of the whole matter is that we, the end users, technicians and designers, need to do what we can to support the right to repair in our communities.

you answered your question there 🙂
similar to how chip manufacturers would have an i3 and i5 from the same silicon wafer but different bins.

3 weeks down the line, and today its time to investigate @ChristoSnake 5kw Infinsolar inverter. I have measured a dead short across the battery terminals. 
I dissasembled the unit in order to expose the DC-DC converter module and the main board (DC-AC plus MPPT).  Below is an image of the two boards, the main board at the top, and DC-DC board at the bottom. 

There are no documentation regarding this 5kw unit. So I had to figure out the whole DC and AC bus topology before I can even start debugging. 
This was very confusing until I at last realized that this is actual a split phase machine, when configured appropriately will deliver ac on phase S and phase R. That explains why we have two identical dc-dc converters as can be seen in the image.  They generate two seperate HV dc busses called BUS- and BUS+. And  they are tied together on the main board to the N (AC neatral). Because the DC bus is really now a split supply bus with negative and positive sources with reference to N, the AC-DC converters on the mainboard can now merely entertain a half-bridge IGBT arrangement to produce AC. But there are two supplies, so there are 2 half-bridges, one for S phase and one for R phase. 
BUT this machine is not configured for split phase, so it is my assumption that the DSP generates the two phases at exactly 0 degree difference (as oppose to 180 for split phase). Then the hardware combines the S and R phases on the AC output board. And yes I have measured a short on this board. 
MPPT follows suit by also generating a split supply. 
So this is actually now two 2.5kW inverters  running in parrallel within the same maxhine. This of course is a gross overkill. This 5kW machine has more heatsinks and power silicon  than a MAX 10kW.  Definately more silcon then Pamela Anderson had back in the day. 
The fault in this particular machine is blown IGBTs on one of the DC-DC converters, but there is 16 of them to replace.  
My first step will be to remove the faulty IGBTs, re assemble, provide no battery and test the main board in terms of solar supply  and exiting the DC-AC converter. This procedure is required to ascertain wether the low voltage battery side mess is isolated and hasnt cause any secondary failures on high voltage split supply circuits. Only then can we calculate the cost of damage and the viability of repairing the converter. 
EDIT: oh the two output are not not merely shorted together, theyy first pass thru individual large inductor, current transformer, filter etc. So I assume the DSP can make fine phase angle adjustment to  maintain load balancing. 
 
 

Below you can see the damage on one IGBT. This one wanted to explode, the legs were heavily bent, the screw helped from total explosion.this is what I like about an inverter, it fails in style, it announces its pain visually  and leaves a mess as to say : look no further, here is the problem. And if you cannot see it, you will smell it out.

I give up!  What inverter do you have, they aren't all the same
 

Sorry just see your reply. Mustek stock them


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Your concern is an easy one to solve. Herewith the results of a quick test with gadgets on the table.
Test of  7W and 3W LED bulbs. Even with the inverter AC/DC losses the 7W one only used 15.5W.
We ignore the current as measurements as such low currents are not accurate. Thus ignore the PF.