Just a note for anyone who finds there way here and has a similar problem with the Narada and the older (5KW) Axperts. The error I was getting was the BMS going into short circuit protection. This is most likely due to the instantaneous current draw when switching powers source if the capacitors discharge slightly. So .. running a single Narada is a bit hit and miss it seems .. probably going to order a second one to get it going properly

45 minutes ago, jetlee said:

Sure .. bought this one https://www.robotics.org.za/RS485-MINI , all the others I found were like 300 rand plus

OMG!!!! That is the exact one I have been fighting with for over a month! From the same place (they didn't bother to answer my emails). What drivers are you using for it? The site says CH340, but windows gives bsod when I try them. Windows shows it as a ftdi by default.

Good to know this cheap adapter does work, I'm going to have another go to see if I can get mine to do something. Thanks!

 

Edit: also, when you say you replaced the first one, was it the same kind? If so, then maybe it's my adapter that's also faulty.

Edited August 26, 20223 yr by jumper

2 hours ago, jumper said:

OMG!!!! That is the exact one I have been fighting with for over a month! From the same place (they didn't bother to answer my emails). What drivers are you using for it? The site says CH340, but windows gives bsod when I try them. Windows shows it as a ftdi by default.

Good to know this cheap adapter does work, I'm going to have another go to see if I can get mine to do something. Thanks!

 

Edit: also, when you say you replaced the first one, was it the same kind? If so, then maybe it's my adapter that's also faulty.

LOL .. isnt that amazing .. 

TBH I dont use windows, except for the Narada software .. and thats inside a VM .. 

My current setup is ubuntu 22 desktop -> virtualbox windows 10 vm with serial passthrough -> Narada software = working

Also working, is ubuntu desktop -> cutecom direct to battery .. 

The other adaptor I had was not a usb -> rs485, it was serial -> rs485, so not the same .. 

If you like, I can plug it into my wifes windows 10 laptop and run some tests and feed back when I get a gap on the weekend, but the adaptor def works via linux 

 

Just as an FYI, my linux machine sees it as "Future Technology Devices International, Ltd FT232 Serial (UART) IC"

 

39 minutes ago, jetlee said:

LOL .. isnt that amazing .. 

LOL, I thought it might be a gable, but turned out well 😁 Been scouring the forum for weeks looking for confirmation that someone uses this adapter.

6 minutes ago, jetlee said:

Just as an FYI, my linux machine sees it as "Future Technology Devices International, Ltd FT232 Serial (UART) IC"

Thanks so much for all this detailed info, it is a lot of help. Interestingly I've seen it come up as FT232 after bsod, but didn't work and only 'seems' to work when windows sees it as FTDI, even though it seems like the same device from your info. I'll see if I can find the right FT232 drivers and maybe it will work properly then. I'll also redo all the wiring to make sure I've not made some noob mistake somewhere along the line. At least I know now that RS485 to battery works with this 2 wire adapter.

OK, had a minute so git my wife to release her laptop

driver : ftdi (2.12.36.4) (2021/07/05)

driver files

ftser2k.sys, serenum.sys, ftcserco.dll, ftserui2.dll

worked fine with my batt, did a quick software connect to be sure

Hope that helps

I didnt search for the files, when it was unrecognized, I just told it to search online for a driver and it installed no problem

I used an old straight through cable, and it was wired as follows

Orange (pin 2) -> A / D+

Green and White (pin 3) -> B / D-

On 2022/08/26 at 3:51 PM, jetlee said:

driver : ftdi (2.12.36.4) (2021/07/05)

driver files

ftser2k.sys, serenum.sys, ftcserco.dll, ftserui2.dll

@jetleeyou flipping legend! I finally have it working and I think this is what did it. I had those 4 drivers, but found an extra one (hhdserial64.sys) which was installed with Device Monitoring Studio which I had installed to sniff the port, but it never worked. Removed the software and driver and I have connected to my shoto with the seplos bms software, it's a different battery and bms, so I won't clutter up this thread with all the details, but can confirm that this R30 adapter works for RS485 battery comms, so should work with any battery. Thanks again!

12 hours ago, jumper said:

@jetleeyou flipping legend! I finally have it working and I think this is what did it. I had those 4 drivers, but found an extra one (hhdserial64.sys) which was installed with Device Monitoring Studio which I had installed to sniff the port, but it never worked. Removed the software and driver and I have connected to my shoto with the seplos bms software, it's a different battery and bms, so I won't clutter up this thread with all the details, but can confirm that this R30 adapter works for RS485 battery comms, so should work with any battery. Thanks again!

awesome, glad its working .. good luck

Wao great 

can u know the make of narada bms from its serial number?

model is 48npfc100-y

https://www.exicom-ps.com/images/energy-qb.jpg

48npfc100-y this model also don't sync with deye/sunsynk inverter 5kw hybrid;

can u provide some input here ??

2 minutes ago, junkes said:

can u know the make of narada bms from its serial number?

model is 48npfc100-y

I like what they did on that battery, giving it a plug for balancing bypassing the bms, I wish all the batteries would have that.
 

hi any help for this model and what tools required for rs232 if bms is shinwa made?

is there any bms coming with something called lide company on these batteries

Edited September 1, 20223 yr by junkes

can u share the pinout of rs232 for this model, it is also having 2 rs485 all rj45

 

@SolarConvert & @WannabeSolarSparky

So a decent update from my side from lots of digging and chatting to people in the know.

1 - RS232 splitter. This is a problem as the inverter supplies power to the data logger where as a normal RS232 does not. I tried the hardware splitter which did not work as it was not providing power. I then also tried a software splitter from a windows machine with a physical port and USB to RS232 converters - None of which provide power... So unless we manually provide power / inject power into the RS232 plug, this will not work. I am going to look into this option but not immediately.

2 - RS485 splitting. This was explained to me by the guys at SolarAssistant as not an option. When Sunsynk is set to communicate with a battery on RS485, it changes the manner in which the port communicates and stops accepting read request.

3 - CAN monitoring. The team at Solar Assistant said that down the line, they are considering communicating via CAN. From there, the Narada batteries will communicate to Solar Assistant and Solar Assistant will emulate the battery back to the Sunsynk. This is similar to Solar MD and Hubble Cloudlink.  This will be an big advantage to all the Narada batteries that dont talk to Sunsynk and Deye inverters as well as all non-supported batteries


So where to from here... Lets band together and some decent pressure on Solar Assistant to expedite option 3 as this will have far reaching benefits to more than just Narada battery users

any update on narada bms tools ???

@WannabeSolarSparky & @SolarConvert

So some great news 🥳.   I got a bee in my bonnet and re-ordered the hardware RS232 splitter (https://www.takealot.com/mt-viki-1-to-4-serial-port-splitter/PLID60868931) after discovering that I did not read the manual properly and figured how to isolate the power for the Datalogger & reconnect if after the splitter.

My first original mistake was that I was using straight cables and not cross over / null modem cables. In the manual it shows that if you are splitting 1 computer to 2 devices, you use a straight cable. If you are splitting 1 device which the Sunsynk to 2 computers, which the Datalogger and Pi are, you need to use cross over cables.

Then I opened the Datalogger and saw which pins were being used for powering it.. I tapped / spliced this out in the cross over cable and reconnected it in after the splitter to feed and power the Datalogger

Connected it all up and voila!! It WORKS !!! I can now run the Datalogger and ICM both via RS232 while my Narada battery is using the RS485 😎

Now to top it all off, I am most likely going to order another Pi to run Solar Assistant on it and then have the best of all worlds... Why? Why not 🤣

Thank you all for the support on this thread... Not only did it help and allow me to get my batteries talking to the inverter, I now have all the monitoring too

7 hours ago, Jay-Dee said:

@WannabeSolarSparky & @SolarConvert

So some great news 🥳.   I got a bee in my bonnet and re-ordered the hardware RS232 splitter (https://www.takealot.com/mt-viki-1-to-4-serial-port-splitter/PLID60868931) after discovering that I did not read the manual properly and figured how to isolate the power for the Datalogger & reconnect if after the splitter.

My first original mistake was that I was using straight cables and not cross over / null modem cables. In the manual it shows that if you are splitting 1 computer to 2 devices, you use a straight cable. If you are splitting 1 device which the Sunsynk to 2 computers, which the Datalogger and Pi are, you need to use cross over cables.

Then I opened the Datalogger and saw which pins were being used for powering it.. I tapped / spliced this out in the cross over cable and reconnected it in after the splitter to feed and power the Datalogger

Connected it all up and voila!! It WORKS !!! I can now run the Datalogger and ICM both via RS232 while my Narada battery is using the RS485 😎

Now to top it all off, I am most likely going to order another Pi to run Solar Assistant on it and then have the best of all worlds... Why? Why not 🤣

Thank you all for the support on this thread... Not only did it help and allow me to get my batteries talking to the inverter, I now have all the monitoring too

Wow this is really great @Jay-Dee! Mission accomplished. I may just try to do the very same thing. Can you share the pins used for the data logger cable?

On 2022/08/31 at 9:26 PM, Jay-Dee said:

3 - CAN monitoring. The team at Solar Assistant said that down the line, they are considering communicating via CAN. From there, the Narada batteries will communicate to Solar Assistant and Solar Assistant will emulate the battery back to the Sunsynk. This is similar to Solar MD and Hubble Cloudlink.  This will be an big advantage to all the Narada batteries that dont talk to Sunsynk and Deye inverters as well as all non-supported batteries

Yes this is exactly what I wanted to attempt when I mentioned it a few posts back. This week I actually removed the SolarAssistant SD card from my PI and am back to my general purpose one. I created a very rudimentary Python script which can read the BMS parameters via RS485, so that works. Now for the hard part…to get the PI to act like a BMS when connected to the inverter CAN port and translate any inverter requests to the real BMS.

On 2022/08/31 at 12:45 PM, junkes said:

hi any help for this model and what tools required for rs232 if bms is shinwa made?

I have only ever tried reading BMS parameters via the RS485 port which uses an RJ45 connector. I assume that you’d need a cable with an RJ11 connector for the RS232 port on the battery but not sure of the pinout.

12 hours ago, SolarConvert said:

Wow this is really great @Jay-Dee! Mission accomplished. I may just try to do the very same thing. Can you share the pins used for the data logger cable?

Sadly the celebration is short lived 😪. After a few hours one of the two jams up... It seems that when they send commands to the inverter it conflicts and the non-sending one goes offline until it is rebooted.  I have tried cutting the RX cable to make it read only but as they are cross over cables this does not solve the problem either.  Going to have to dig a little deeper but at least the concept works even though it is only for a short period of time

 

 

12 hours ago, SolarConvert said:

Yes this is exactly what I wanted to attempt when I mentioned it a few posts back. This week I actually removed the SolarAssistant SD card from my PI and am back to my general purpose one. I created a very rudimentary Python script which can read the BMS parameters via RS485, so that works. Now for the hard part…to get the PI to act like a BMS when connected to the inverter CAN port and translate any inverter requests to the real BMS.

While I understand the logic here, the execution is well beyond my pay grade but I am happy to help in any way possible to get this option viable

1 hour ago, Jay-Dee said:

Sadly the celebration is short lived 😪. After a few hours one of the two jams up... It seems that when they send commands to the inverter it conflicts and the non-sending one goes offline until it is rebooted.  I have tried cutting the RX cable to make it read only but as they are cross over cables this does not solve the problem either.  Going to have to dig a little deeper but at least the concept works even though it is only for a short period of time

I worried about this with the splitter option. Each MODBUS request includes a transaction ID and the MODBUS response needs to include the same transaction ID. In theory, even if there are two senders (the PI and the Data Logger), if the inverter responds to each of them and includes their respective transaction IDs (which it must according to the spec), this should all work provided that each original sender ignores responses that are not destined for it (and of course the transaction IDs are different for each sender, which should hopefully be the case with randomly generated transaction IDs). That is the theory. In practice, however, I see two possible issues:

1. The senders may not check a response’s transaction ID matches their own request’s transaction ID, i.e. whether a response is destined for them. Blindly accepting/processing it would cause the processing of a completely incorrect response. I have found this to be true in some Python MODBUS libraries, but cannot comment on how the Data Logger would process the responses, or on which library is used by Solar Assistant / other monitoring tools. An example of this would be the Data Logger requesting certain info from the inverter and the response it receives is something that the PI asked for, or visa-versa, simply due to timing.
2. I am not even sure what the splitter does with the responses from the inverter - do both senders get a copy of the response? I’d assume so and if that were true, then point 1 above is still a problem. If not, then that is even worse where responses may get lost due to splitting / multiplexing. For example, the PI reads the response that the Data Logger is waiting for and the Data Logger never gets it because it was consumed by the PI.

The issues you are experiencing may be due to the above, though that is speculation on my part. Even so, I’d be curious to find out the answers to the above even if it were purely academic.

Edited September 4, 20223 yr by SolarConvert

hi this also same hardware 

https://www.tempestns.com/products/vestwoods-vt48100b-lithium-battery-module/