4 minutes ago, plonkster said:

causes a serious disconnect in my brain 🙂

at least you were 'connected' - i believe the present eskom chaos is the result of brains that have never been connected in the first instance - shocking to say the least 🤔

9 minutes ago, plonkster said:

I can't watch these Hitler-text-over things.

Ai, the ADD, SSD, DVD kicking in? Turn off the sound, read the text and have a laugh! 😜

12 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Ai, the ADD, SSD, DVD kicking in? Turn off the sound, read the text and have a laugh! 😜

Dude. I recently watched a series on Netflix that was originally in French. It had English subtitles. Then they dubbed it over in English... using different lines. Goodness, that was hard to watch. Even simple things like going to church and you're reading from the NLT but the pastor has his 83 out today... 🙂

Anyway, that Swiss guy who plays Hitler? Seriously good actor. Has since died of cancer unfortunately.

15 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Has since died of cancer unfortunately.

Hitler will do that to you...

I quote: “We have not been able to pay for our imports since October last year. There was curtailment of power by Eskom from 450MW to 50MW. HCB of Mozambique did the same. We are only getting 50MW as we speak. Eskom can give us 400MW that they don’t need at night. We owe $33m to Eskom and $35m to HCB,” He said. "Next week we are trooping to meet Eskom for a payment plan,” Chivaura told delegates.

From here: Zimbabwe to approach Eskom for help as Kariba Dam levels drop

So Eskom being in R500bn debt - and it is growing - supplying power to Zim to a tune of $33m ( R 475 990 350.00) - uhm, what the F..k am I missing ... YET AGAIN!?

On top of that ... if Eskom has spare power at night, why why why (!!!) don't they TELL big business to change from daytime usage to evening usage, mines don't care if the sun shines, smelters neither, bakeries, small porcelain factories ... have shifts to accommodate the schedules and IF the Unions bitch, send them to me ... I will Dictator their whatshallwecallit into a smelter / oven / shaft tjop tjop.

Solves the spare power, spreads the loads and potentially saves a shiite load of jobs that could be lost due to continuing failures.

O wait, we don't want to fix Eskom ... sorry, my bad, I forgot.

13 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

"Next week we are trooping to meet Eskom for a payment plan,” Chivaura told delegates.

now try that one with your bank for a mere R1mil... in any case, what is a 'payment plan'? it is 'new-speak' for 'write it off!

Just now, Gabriël said:

now try that one with your bank for a mere R1mil... in any case, what is a 'payment plan'? it is 'new-speak' for 'write it off!

... R33M... i'm sorry, this does not sound right, should that not maybe be R33B..

G

3 minutes ago, georgelza said:

... R33M... i'm sorry, this does not sound right, should that not maybe be R33B..

that most probably is 33m USD, not the zim worthless stuff they call money

Edited June 4, 20197 yr by Gabriël

5 minutes ago, georgelza said:

... R33M... i'm sorry, this does not sound right, should that not maybe be R33B..G

3 minutes ago, Gabriël said:

that most probably is R33m per day

You both are wrong. Nor Rand 33M - US Dollar 33M 🙂 

That is what we are told, it could be a lot more seeing that the ANC and Zim are close friends, some family ties, and Zuma and Mal-Emma aspires to be like Zim.

 

Edited June 4, 20197 yr by Guest

I personally have no problem with supplying Zimbabwe with free power when that power is sitting unused at 3AM in the morning. As long as it is not being done with the expensive Diesel peaking plants. Coal stations are like Diesel engines... they rev slowly. Dealing with peaks often means running a coal station uneconomically (ie heating up the boilers... but not spinning the turbines), and an argument can be made for giving such wasted energy away for free.

OK, so lately people have been telling me to chill... because the average person on the street don't have an understanding of electricity... but still I feel somewhat irritated when people argue so passionately against supplying our neighbours. It almost sounds as if people think electricity is like milk: If I don't have enough milk for breakfast, then my neighbour will have to drink black coffee, right? Sure, but electricity is not like that. It is difficult to store (when you don't have lots of hydro storage). And the power stations rev up and down slowly. Very often we have excess, and even if you sell the excess at a loss... it is better than just burning the coal and getting nothing for it.

The reality is that South Africa is part of the SAPP (Southern African Power Pool). This includes countries like Namibia, Mozambique, Botswana... and the black sheep Zimbabwe. Eskom is technically a net importer of electricity. It gets more out of SAPP than it puts in. People should be careful what they wish for when they insist that Eskom should withdraw.

</soapbox>

Edited June 4, 20197 yr by plonkster

I would rather have that power and pay a off-peak rate for it to charge my batteries.  I think the time needs to come where Eskom charges various rates depending on time-of-use.

I have no problem paying more between 18-21:00 and then almost nothing @ 12:00 to 04:00!

I'll then buy proper batteries not the "Draadkar" (@TTT) set I now have.

6 minutes ago, plonkster said:

</soapbox>

@plonksterPlease add an OPEN <soapbox>

So we know when the rant starts

6 minutes ago, Mark said:

@plonksterPlease add an OPEN <soapbox>

So we know when the rant starts

The open tag is implicit 😛

(in SGML there really is such a thing as an implicit close tag... not an open tag though. It was a nightmare to support in parsers).

... and they haven't paid since October... can imagine why they hoping this gets written off.

G

Perhaps my milk analogy is more apt than I thought, in the sense that milk goes off. There is a point where it makes more sense to give away the milk for free rather than pouring cheese chunks down the drain 🙂

😅

22 minutes ago, plonkster said:

... but still I feel somewhat irritated when people argue so passionately against supplying our neighbours.

I have NO problem giving free electricity away, I mean I made that proposal to CoCT.

But I do have a problem when:
1) We lose jobs in SA because we give free power away.
2) Because that free power given away could have been averted if big business was told to use it after hours. 
3) Using what Mark proposes, at a lower cost, seeing as the power would go to waste.

Then I have a problem that Eskom supplies Zim and Nam. 

We first sort ourselves out THEN we can help the rest ... or we all go down.

Edited June 4, 20197 yr by Guest

... not ok'ing the giving away, or the price or the lack of it being made available firstly to SA. But another way to see this, giving them some power keep some of them that side of the border, instead of the country collapsing completely and we ending with the entire caboodle on our front door step.

G

6 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Then I have a problem that Eskom supplies Zim and Nam. 

Zim maybe. You get to a point where you might refuse to do business at all as a way to force payment. I've worked for a company like that once... school holiday job... they refused to even accept cash until the bill was paid.

But Namibia... man... Namibia has 5% of the population of South Africa. They use less power than Soweto. They pay their bills. They have some of their own power stations. And as I said already... Eskom gets more out of SAPP than they put in. You have to understand that argument correctly: cutting the strings would HURT the country, not help it.

To understand what I mean, South Africa exports a small percentage of their electricity (the bulk is used locally) and get slightly more back.

Whether Zimbabwe should continue to benefit from SAPP without paying... that is another matter IMHO.

Can the electricity be sold locally at enough profit to make it worthwhile? The idea is that Eskom should make more money by selling it locally (because that is the problem they have... sales and debt). Again, that is a separate argument in my opinion. If such surplus can be sold locally for enough profit, only then can we start talking about contributing less to SAPP. And then there would be the other question: There are contracts in place for this sort of thing. I give you X units at price A, you give me Y units at price B. Withdrawing from SAPP will not be completely neutral.

3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

But Namibia... man... Namibia has 5% of the population of South Africa.

Ok, we can supply Nam - because I really dig the Namib and the north! And I fought there so my sweat has been left in Owamboland / Angola.

We grant you your wish Sire. 

But not Zim. They are poised to go solar. Have sold a bit of equipment there already and heard where the power is needed, where there is no Eskom power per se.

Built that network back up with a renewable backbone to a national decentralized grid. They have that chance now.

 

5 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Can the electricity be sold locally at enough profit to make it worthwhile?

Well, has anybody though to ask big business (mines / smelters / bakeries) to only start using electricity between say 9pm - 4am at a lower rate, and then made that happen?

Are the Unions too powerful ito overtime demands instead of shifts?

See, there are solutions:

How technology could help rural South Africa turn sunshine into income - brilliant! Same goes for Zim.

Solar power could stabilise Nigeria's electricity grid and save it money - Again, same goes for Zim.

Any country who can now implement decentralized grids, must do so with haste.

40 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Well, has anybody though to ask big business (mines / smelters / bakeries) to only start using electricity between say 9pm - 4am at a lower rate, and then made that happen?

I don't know. Again, it seems the average person on the street assumes that 1) it hasn't been done, and 2) it should be done. I honestly don't know.

What I do know is that Eskom hopes to sell more power to other countries. That is how it hopes to increase revenue. The opportunity is closing rather quickly, because Botswana already reduced their reliance and Namibia is likely next (but first they have a big drought to deal with). Despite all of the nonsense in Eskom going on, I rather doubt they are so stupid as to aim for export money when there is a local opportunity. I rather suspect the idea of cheap local power might be one of those nice-for-some-consumers-but-ultimately-not-worth-it things... though of course I would like to see some authoritative numbers/arguments on that.

Short answer: I am not convinced either way.

Edited June 4, 20197 yr by plonkster

5 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Short answer: I am not convinced either way.

And sometimes the answer is so simple, staring you in the face, and no-one saw it ... but Einstein did, Gallileo did ... 🙂 

But I have to agree with you Plonk, we just don't know what is going on.

7 minutes ago, plonkster said:

That is how it hopes to increase revenue.

I'm all good with that IF we DON'T have more job losses due to power cuts, or WE become bankrupt as a country!!!

That the monies are paid on time and not being "funded" from Gov pension funds, or at the cost of other dearly needed Government projects, pushing SA into a downgrade due to more power cuts and resultant even bigger debt.

Sort out your own house before you try and fix your neighbors. 🙂 

1 minute ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Gallileo did

Technically Copernicus did most of the hard lifting. Copernicus then delayed publication because he was fearing backlash (from academia, who were in love with the ideas of Aristotle and Ptolemy, not from "the church" as the modern narrative goes, in fact Galileo was actually paid by "the church"). Also, Galileo was kind-of an ass. When he didn't get his way he wrote a book called Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, where the "bad guy" was named Simplicio, a name chosen to insult those who disagreed with him, which happened to include pope Urban VIII, who was actually a friend of Galileo. This resulted in Galileo being placed under house arrest (not burned at the stake as some allege).

History is kinda awesome sometimes 🙂

28 minutes ago, plonkster said:

History is kinda awesome sometimes 🙂

If people watch soapies / movies / series they get upset when there are repeats ... but we don't even notice when history repeats itself. 😉