Had a quote declined today as the specified Kodak OG7.2 inverter does not appear on the list

These models are:

@Steve87

Hi @chriscfor an inverter to appear on that list the inverter must be grid interactive. Meaning it just be capable of Grid tieing. The OG7.2 is an off grid machine. Meaning it can power a load through it's load port and does have an AC input port. Most importantly that AC input port is not bi-directional. It can only draw power from the grid much like a user appliance. 

Grid tieing or Grid interactive machines can draw power as well as export power to the Grid. 

The OG7.2 cannot do this. Hence it's omission from that list. All the machines on the List are NRS097 approved and can Grid tie. 

Hope this clears it up. So how can you still purchase of use a Kodak OG7.2? Apply to the City of Caoe town for an installation that is not grid interactive & is Off grid in nature. Doesn't actually mean you are going off the grid and have a mountain of Batteries. Merely that the inverter cannot export power. That way your humble little OG7.2 will definitely be allowed to be used without the Scrutiny of the NRS097. The NRS097 is not a requirement for an off grid inverter. 

The customer was quoted using a Kodak OG7.2

He enquired wirh the relevant CofCT department about licensing the installation.  He was told quite firmly that this model will automatically disqualify his installation 

From the 23rd Oct this will be the case. However, in my opinion they cannot disallow this even after the 23rd of October. Provided this is done with a Valid CoC and signed off properly. One needs to complete the registration form properly. I might also add that because the Kodak range of Off grid inverters doesn't appear on the list of inverter approved for NRS097 doesn't mean it's an unsafe machine. 

I think the City of Cape Town have lost the plot on this one. I can name a long list of safety features that proves that the Kodak OG7.2 is safer than a let's say a Sunsynk machine. They are using an NRS097 approval & fast registration as a means to swiftly speed up registration. Now that is majorly flawed thinking. I can categorically say safety, and installation of an NRS097 Inverter as apposed to the OG7.2 is a massive knowledge gap on their side. 

A Sunsynk without a Neutral/ Earth relay Bond poses a much bigger safety risk than an OG7.2. The non approved OG7.2has this Bonding built in...But then again I guess trying to sort out incompetent installations can be remedied with a NRS097 approval these days.......

From what I've heard the CoCT will not approve an installation of a single unit above 5 kW. A friend told me he had to install 6x 5 kW Victron's to get a 3 phase 30 kW install approved by the CoCT. Absolute insanity. I don't live in Cape Town, so haven't confirmed this, maybe those in CT can chime in? 🤔

2 hours ago, Steve87 said:

I think the City of Cape Town have lost the plot on this one. I can name a long list of safety features that proves that the Kodak OG7.2 is safer than a let's say a Sunsynk machine. They are using an NRS097 approval & fast registration as a means to swiftly speed up registration. Now that is majorly flawed thinking. I can categorically say safety, and installation of an NRS097 Inverter as apposed to the OG7.2 is a massive knowledge gap on their side.

I have been saying that for ages now 🤪

Standby ( UPS ) Systems Will No Longer Be Allowed. ( their fancy info-graphics are not so disguised scare tactics )
They are e...ing insane, but I do understand why they are having this knee-jerk reaction ( nothing to do with safety as so many keep defending them on )
The rapid rollout of solar by all their normally good paying customers is threatening their revenue streams and they are sh$ng themselves as to where they going to find the funds to subsidise the non-paying users.

So for them simple - regulate the crap out of it to slow down the uptake, as least for as long as no-one challenges them on their rules.

IMHO - for UPS style non-grid-tied/interactive then as long as my/your installation is safe and electrically compliant ( valid CoC ) then their suggested rules seem to be a bit much of an over-reach.

@WannabeSolarSparkytheir reasoning is shambolic. For faster approvals sake...To get something done faster doesnt mean lets stop all the UPS style of systems. I mean logic says to get it done faster would maybe constitute getting more ppl employed to process the applications, or maybe just get more competent ppl or perhaps upskill within the department to allow their current staff, to be able to distinguish between an Off Grid installation and a SSEG application. 

But a Blanket NO answer is honestly going to hurt not only their reputation, but also the pockets of the end users whom have to buy an NRS approved inverter. 

There is a serious knowledge gap within the technical side of the solar game. Was listening to R702 the other day when an "expert" was talking on their show about solar and was basically a Q & A session. He was struggling to answer and deliver basic concepts. We in trouble in this industry. 

I honestly dont want to live in a glass house and throw stones because the task is not easy, however, we need to get a grip and fast.

 

5 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

@WannabeSolarSparkyWas listening to R702 the other day when an "expert" was talking on their show about solar and was basically a Q & A session. He was struggling to answer and deliver basic concepts. We in trouble in this industry. 

When asked about poly/mono he evaded the question. It seemed like he didn't know the difference. 

I also thought is this an "expert" 🤔

16 hours ago, chrisc said:

Had a quote declined today as the specified Kodak OG7.2 inverter does not appear on the list

These models are:

These approved Kodaks are all the rebranded Solis grid tied/hybrid models. 

19 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

There is a serious knowledge gap within the technical side of the solar game.

I dare suggest that is not limited to the solar game...

8 hours ago, TimCam said:

From what I've heard the CoCT will not approve an installation of a single unit above 5 kW. A friend told me he had to install 6x 5 kW Victron's to get a 3 phase 30 kW install approved by the CoCT.

Victron has been dragging its feet getting its larger inverters NRS approved. Currently the largest Victron inverter on the approved list is 5kW, so if you've got your mind set on a Victron setup and you need more than 5kW then you need to install multiple inverters in parallel.

There are >5kW inverters on the approved list from other brands.

Nevertheless, the end-user who is not technically inclined agrees that it would be madness to spend R150k on a system to have a CoCT inspector tell him it is illegal and have him remove it

Private people's opinions do not count there.  I can see the logic in the above arguments but you cannot rule against a municipal inspector

9 hours ago, chrisc said:

you cannot rule against a municipal inspector

But we can push hard against such incompetence & lack of understanding given the correct time & place. The conversation has already started. This may be a small forum of 25K odd of ppl but, the voice of reason often is small. Through Associations like AREP or even individually one must oppose such stupidity. 

Solar is not a one size fits all model. The problem of unsafe & non compliant Installations is not an inverter problem. It's an installation installer & Industry problem. But your point is very valid. Many that don't know don't care. Just glad in this case I don't live in CPT. Very frustrating rules on solar. 

CoCT generally provide excellent service and run a sound financial ship

But now and then you come across some very strange and ill-thought out ideas.  Today we received in the post a "Warning about water regulations"

They require consumers to fit a consumption meter to all boreholes and well-points 
This must be installed by a Council approved plumber who must show that he is qualified to do the work

Yout roof-mounted solar water heater also needs to be inspected for compliance and safety.  This again needs a suitably qualified person 

Sounds like a "make work" scheme

1 hour ago, chrisc said:

CoCT generally provide excellent service and run a sound financial ship

But now and then you come across some very strange and ill-thought out ideas.  Today we received in the post a "Warning about water regulations"

They require consumers to fit a consumption meter to all boreholes and well-points 
This must be installed by a Council approved plumber who must show that he is qualified to do the work

Yout roof-mounted solar water heater also needs to be inspected for compliance and safety.  This again needs a suitably qualified person 

Sounds like a "make work" scheme

I insist that CoCT is running regulated Ponzi scheme.  It may look legit and seem serving a good purpose. It is still a ponzi scheme. Money-making scheme in which CoCT residents are doomed with no other options

14 hours ago, chrisc said:

Nevertheless, the end-user who is not technically inclined agrees that it would be madness to spend R150k on a system to have a CoCT inspector tell him it is illegal and have him remove it

I thought the idea was pre-approval as far as possible. You say to them that you want to install X, Y and Z and it will be connected in this fashion. They say yea or nay, and at least you haven't broken the bank with a system they won't let you install. 

Obviously final sign off can only be done after install. 

This reminds me of my childhood. My dad was a brickie, and sometimes, when school was out, I'd go on site with him. Inspectors back then didn't mind kids on the site, but they'd look at the way the mortar was mixed and all sorts of things. Then the plumb lines & spirit levels came out. They'd check corners. If they didn't like it then down it came. Good brickies learned the rules and built to them.

My dad didn't get much trouble from the inspectors and word got around. Not that he got paid more (he led a little crew that you hired as a unit, so he had his own labourer who he knew knew how to mix mortar), but it got him near the front of the line.

My dad had a special rope that you could use to make perfect right angles. Knots gave him the markers for sides of 3, 4, and 5 yards. 

Customer is a non-denominational church in Fish Hoek.   They went to the Council with the technical drawings and specs of the proposed installation

It was turned down as

The cables from the PV panels must be enclosed in steel pipes, which must be bonded to earth
The Kodak OG7.2 inverter is not on the approved list
The electrician who is handling the connection, although a registered installation electrician, is not qualified to handle solar installations
The drawings showed that the 4 PV panels would share one earth cable
The drawing did not show that the battery would have a separate earth

They were told to go away and have these deficiencies remedied

Unfortunately the steel pipes is non negotiable especially if long cable runs are made in the roof. Bosal pipe is the standard. The other stuff is very nit picky. 

I have had to rectify an installation that was in the JNB CBD near the blast site where Siyayas were airborne. This system was installed a decade ago they ran a cable tray with PV cables left in the sun as well as MC4s. The results were that the cable survived the 10yrs. The poor MC4s were very brittle and some had suffered failure. Laying Bosal Galvanized pipe and running cables in them will make sure that the infrastructure will last 25yrs and that if a cable has an issue the sparks or fire will never spread. It's a pain but if you install this you will realize that that particular guideline makes heaps of sense. 

If these okes at City of Cape Town don't know why the OG7.2 is not on the list then I'm not inclined to trust anything else they may say. Not an easy situation...

The second pic is of a residential installation not the CBD one...