Evening all

Just stumbled on this forum recently and after spending a few days reading various posts on here seem none the wiser.

Contemplating an inverter/battery system for now , panels to follow later stage.

But with all the options and configurations there seems to be, i have no idea where to start

All i know is i have 4 bedroom property and need the usual things to work during load shedding eg tv, lights, etc

Would be nice if other home appliances could be operational.

Budget is i guess +/-R 60-70k im guessing with or without installation?

 

What other things must i look out for or places to purchase? 

Edited August 6, 20233 yr by maqsmaqs

4 Bedroom home I would say budget in the R100k - R120k region at least.

Have u got more info to share such as geyser type, stove type etc ?

As @Douw G. Gerber already stated, important considerations are what your long term planned outcome is.
If your primary concern is just to power the basics through loadshedding, then your budget is more than enough.
If you however intend to eventually get to near off grid then start thinking about the high powered devices, like geyser and stove. These can be replaced with Gas or you could get a stand alone solar geyser with element back up.
Stoves are one device where a gas hob is actually one big step towards reducing electricity demand. 
 

@maqsmaqs, the first thing to do is to get an idea of how much energy you are consuming on average per day. In kWh, not in rands and cents. You should get some help from your municipal/Eskom account.

Then consider your goal. When you have time and money for panels, do you just want to get through loadsheds, or do you want to start making a dent in the bill? Without solar you are not going to save any money, but you should be able to get through 2 or 4 hours of outage. Your bill may actually increase a little, because the process of converting AC from the grid to DC to charge batteries is not 100% efficient. Consider this NOW so that you get the correct battery, instead of buying more later or - worse - having to sell a 2nd hand battery and upgrade.

What MUST be backed up? Or, if you prefer, what will not be backed up? Probably you don't want to, or, at least, won't be able to back up geysers and and electric stove. 

Another helpful piece of information, though harder to quantify, is the PEAK power you want the system to provide even if only momentarily. Look at things that make things hot. So your kettle, the microwave, hair dryers, dish washer, washing machines (depending on cycle) etc. You may have to decide to restrict use of this whilst the house is running off battteries.

You're confused now, and that's understandable. But if you start putting some numbers on a piece of paper and start to figure out the requirement, a picture will start to emerge. 

On 2023/08/05 at 10:47 PM, maqsmaqs said:

Evening all

Just stumbled on this forum recently and after spending a few days reading various posts on here seem none the wiser.

Contemplating an inverter/battery system for now , panels to follow later stage.

But with all the options and configurations there seems to be, i have no idea where to start

All i know is i have 4 bedroom property and need the usual things to work during load shedding eg tv, lights, etc

Would be nice if other home appliances could be operational.

Budget is i guess +/-R 60-70k im guessing with or without installation?

 

What other things must i look out for or places to purchase? 

You would need to know what equipment you want to run and what power they use and for how many hours. 

Lights if LED you only need say 200W for 4 hours. TV can be 70W. We use any appliance but only 1 kitchen gadget at a time. Run the elec blanket through the night. Also a biggish house but manage the power used. 

Although my inverter is on I have build 2 change over systems where if there is grid then that is used. If power is off it used the inverter. This works great for some always on loads. No discharging the battery by running loads from it while there is grid. 

With management it is easy to get a system within your budget. 

3 hours ago, Douw G. Gerber said:

4 Bedroom home I would say budget in the R100k - R120k region at least.

Have u got more info to share such as geyser type, stove type etc ?

thanks

Have 2 100l geysers for 2 bathrooms

replaced one stove with gas stove little while back

oven though is electric 

3 hours ago, zsde said:

As @Douw G. Gerber already stated, important considerations are what your long term planned outcome is.
If your primary concern is just to power the basics through loadshedding, then your budget is more than enough.
If you however intend to eventually get to near off grid then start thinking about the high powered devices, like geyser and stove. These can be replaced with Gas or you could get a stand alone solar geyser with element back up.
Stoves are one device where a gas hob is actually one big step towards reducing electricity demand. 
 

guess initially to power through loadshedding as both kids need lights, power etc for studying

guess eventually would like to aim to be off grid

have the gas hob .. 

2 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

You would need to know what equipment you want to run and what power they use and for how many hours. 

Lights if LED you only need say 200W for 4 hours. TV can be 70W. We use any appliance but only 1 kitchen gadget at a time. Run the elec blanket through the night. Also a biggish house but manage the power used. 

Although my inverter is on I have build 2 change over systems where if there is grid then that is used. If power is off it used the inverter. This works great for some always on loads. No discharging the battery by running loads from it while there is grid. 

With management it is easy to get a system within your budget. 

ive looked at few options for inverter plus battery but there are so many options

brother in law has this set up and said maybe we should get something similar? 

3 hours ago, Bobster. said:

@maqsmaqs, the first thing to do is to get an idea of how much energy you are consuming on average per day. In kWh, not in rands and cents. You should get some help from your municipal/Eskom account.

Then consider your goal. When you have time and money for panels, do you just want to get through loadsheds, or do you want to start making a dent in the bill? Without solar you are not going to save any money, but you should be able to get through 2 or 4 hours of outage. Your bill may actually increase a little, because the process of converting AC from the grid to DC to charge batteries is not 100% efficient. Consider this NOW so that you get the correct battery, instead of buying more later or - worse - having to sell a 2nd hand battery and upgrade.

What MUST be backed up? Or, if you prefer, what will not be backed up? Probably you don't want to, or, at least, won't be able to back up geysers and and electric stove. 

Another helpful piece of information, though harder to quantify, is the PEAK power you want the system to provide even if only momentarily. Look at things that make things hot. So your kettle, the microwave, hair dryers, dish washer, washing machines (depending on cycle) etc. You may have to decide to restrict use of this whilst the house is running off battteries.

You're confused now, and that's understandable. But if you start putting some numbers on a piece of paper and start to figure out the requirement, a picture will start to emerge. 

thanks

think i need to sit down and formulate some numbers

 

1 hour ago, maqsmaqs said:

ive looked at few options for inverter plus battery but there are so many options

brother in law has this set up and said maybe we should get something similar? 

Can you share the inverter size and battery size of your BIL system. 

My comment is based on SVolt 9kWh DIY with a JK BMS and 2 x Luxpower SNA 5kw and enough for installation. Battery and BMS R27000 and R26000 for the 2 Inverters. This can later take 12kW of solar panels. 

Edited August 8, 20233 yr by Scorp007

I don't think you'll be able to install BIL's system within the available budget. If it's the system in the link, which it looks like, https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/batterys/products/copy-of-greenrich-u-p3686-lithium-battery-3-686kwh-51-2v , that's R113K right out the gate.

Not to say you couldn't find a decent comparable solution that fits your needs, but you're going to have to cut back somewhere.

Possibly two 5kWh wall-mounted batteries with a 5kW off-grid inverter (eg. a Luxpower SNA5000 with 2x Dyness BX51100).

Otherwise a single on-grid hybrid inverter with a 1C battery (eg Sunsynk or Deye 5kW inverter / 5kWh battery combo).

Edited August 8, 20233 yr by GreenFields

Here is another option borrowed from @zsde

that is within budget but for the installation. 10kWh battery and 10kW inverter if 2 units are bought. 

https://lifetide.co.za/product/5kw-growatt-load-shedding-kit-5120wh-lifepo4-battery/

Well it’s a big step and you need to get it right. I’ve just gone Solar and let me give you a few bits of insight. As everyone has mentioned you need to work out what your consumption will be and what you will draw, as that will determine your setup requirement and will point you to the cost layout it would require. When I installed I realised that it would cost me more in the long run if I just opted for a battery and an inverter connected to the grid. I have a 3 bedroom home, but I have no stove or geyser. That running in Gas. I do have and 2000w oven, a 1000w microwave and a 2000w air fryer.  Apart from that I run a fridge, a TV, coffee machine and I work from home. In my case that’s adds a TV studio with 2 or 3 computers with all kinds of gear. 
 

In a daily use scenario I pull around 4 to 6 kV from my system. On a heavy day up to 11kV, and that’s with no stove or geyser connected. I run a 5Kva Lux Power inverter with 2 x 5kv Dyness batteries. That is in the region of R110k without the panels and without installation. I added 10 x 545 Canadian Solar panels and that brought my total to just under R160k installed. That included a 34 page COC for the insurance.
 

in my honest opinion try and bite the bullet and get the panels at the same time. My system has effectively taken me off the grid entirely. I haven’t had Eskom in my house for a month or so. The system is able to generate enough power to run the entire house of solar alone - even on rainy and cloudy days and charge the batteries after an evenings use. My oven is connected to my inverters. We only use it on weekends but we do run the air fryer and the microwave at times in the week. When it’s a sunny day I can run the over for 3 hours at time and my batteries won’t drain at all. Runs entirely off panels. 
 

yes you can get away with a basic non PV connected system and it will help with load shedding, but if you truely want to benefit from the investment you will need the PV panel part. Your budget is a tight one which means you would probably only be able to get a 5Kv battery, this is not ideal. I think your budget is a bit low for what you looking at running. Just remember the old saying - cheaper will cost you more in the long run. Good luck with your install. It’s well worth it
 

 

 

Edited August 9, 20233 yr by Crazy Kaktus
Added info

The most important factor is the Inverter and Battery, if you install the wrong inverter and battery combination then the installation is going to cost more in the future because the installation would basically need to be done from scratch.

As pointed out in previous replies you need to know how much power you use on a daily basis a good indication would be to look at your utility bills for a couple of months and use the one with the highest consumption for the same billing days, to calculate the consumption per day take the monthly consumption and divide that by the billing period and then divide that by 24 to get the hourly consumption.

One of the best value for money inverters at the moment is the 7.2Kw Kodak OG available @ The Powerforum Store around 19K5.
One of the best value for money batteries at the moment is the Kodak 3.68kWh 48V Battery Module available @ The Powerforum Store around 23K5 and for the 7.2Kw inverter you would need 2 of these batteries if you want to run the full 7.2Kw for an hour long.
Other batteries which can also be looked at is the MAGNETO Lithium-LiFePo4 Rack Mount 48V 5.1KWh or the MAGNETO Lithium-LiFePo4 Rack Mount 48V 9.6KWh or the Greenrich U-P3686 Lithium Battery 3.686kWh 51.2V.

I am not sure if the Magneto rack mount LiFePO4 units can communicate with the 7.2Kw Kodak OG inverter over the RS485 port (maybe @MAGNETO RENEWABLE ENERGY can advise if their batteries can communicate with the inverter mentioned?), I can confirm that the Greenrich battery does communicate with the 7.2Kw Kodak OG inverter over the RS485 port with the Pylontech profile on the inverter.

I have seen on the forum that there are a couple of Topics that you must use a specific inverter/s if you live in the Western Cape province, I hope that you do not live in the Western Cape province.

Make sure that you use a PVGreenCard Installer found @ https://www.pvgreencard.co.za/reg/installers/inst-directory-a contact a few of the installers in your area and ask them if they have experience with the inverter I listed above and the batteries, if they say no they do not know either of the brands and they want to suggest other products like a Pylontech type battery where the battery power cable connection looks like a spark plug lead connection tell them no thanks - my opinion is that those type of connections cannot handle large currents and eventually melt and or burn.

The Kodak 7.2Kw inverter can be used in parallel with another Kodak 7.2Kw inverter if the need arises to expand - Ask the electrician who does the electrical install to install a bigger DB for the inverter AC input side and AC output side so that there are space for future upgrades.
Upto 8Kw of solar panel power over 2 inputs per inverter so for 2 inverters that double to 16Kw.

One factor to keep in mind with solar panels is roof space, make sure that there is enough roof space that receives sun so that the solar panel can generate the most power when there is sunlight available.
The best value for money solar panels at the moment is the 460W Seraphim SIV Monocrystalline Series Silver Frame available @ Megastar Products https://megastarproducts.co.za/products/seraphim-siv-monocrystalline-series-460wp-silver-frame @ around R2k7 per panel and for the Kodak 7.2Kw inverter you can go upto 8 solar panels per input so that would be 16 solar panels for both inputs per inverter.

 

On 2023/08/08 at 7:11 PM, GreenFields said:

I don't think you'll be able to install BIL's system within the available budget. If it's the system in the link, which it looks like, https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/batterys/products/copy-of-greenrich-u-p3686-lithium-battery-3-686kwh-51-2v , that's R113K right out the gate.

Not to say you couldn't find a decent comparable solution that fits your needs, but you're going to have to cut back somewhere.

Possibly two 5kWh wall-mounted batteries with a 5kW off-grid inverter (eg. a Luxpower SNA5000 with 2x Dyness BX51100).

Otherwise a single on-grid hybrid inverter with a 1C battery (eg Sunsynk or Deye 5kW inverter / 5kWh battery combo).

yes GF i think that's the one he has that you linked to

i see its over R110k without installation

its more than i anticipated to pay up front

is it a good set up though ie the one in the link?

I was looking around and i see FNB are giving me a discount on Sunsynk with ebucks? 

is the sunsynk option a relatively good one?

thinking of the 5kw for now with added battery? 

On 2023/08/08 at 7:38 PM, Scorp007 said:

Here is another option borrowed from @zsde

that is within budget but for the installation. 10kWh battery and 10kW inverter if 2 units are bought. 

https://lifetide.co.za/product/5kw-growatt-load-shedding-kit-5120wh-lifepo4-battery/

thank for the link

Are the components on this setup good.... it works out relatively cheaper than some of the things im getting quotes on 

On 2023/08/09 at 3:59 AM, Crazy Kaktus said:

Well it’s a big step and you need to get it right. I’ve just gone Solar and let me give you a few bits of insight. As everyone has mentioned you need to work out what your consumption will be and what you will draw, as that will determine your setup requirement and will point you to the cost layout it would require. When I installed I realised that it would cost me more in the long run if I just opted for a battery and an inverter connected to the grid. I have a 3 bedroom home, but I have no stove or geyser. That running in Gas. I do have and 2000w oven, a 1000w microwave and a 2000w air fryer.  Apart from that I run a fridge, a TV, coffee machine and I work from home. In my case that’s adds a TV studio with 2 or 3 computers with all kinds of gear. 
 

In a daily use scenario I pull around 4 to 6 kV from my system. On a heavy day up to 11kV, and that’s with no stove or geyser connected. I run a 5Kva Lux Power inverter with 2 x 5kv Dyness batteries. That is in the region of R110k without the panels and without installation. I added 10 x 545 Canadian Solar panels and that brought my total to just under R160k installed. That included a 34 page COC for the insurance.
 

in my honest opinion try and bite the bullet and get the panels at the same time. My system has effectively taken me off the grid entirely. I haven’t had Eskom in my house for a month or so. The system is able to generate enough power to run the entire house of solar alone - even on rainy and cloudy days and charge the batteries after an evenings use. My oven is connected to my inverters. We only use it on weekends but we do run the air fryer and the microwave at times in the week. When it’s a sunny day I can run the over for 3 hours at time and my batteries won’t drain at all. Runs entirely off panels. 
 

yes you can get away with a basic non PV connected system and it will help with load shedding, but if you truely want to benefit from the investment you will need the PV panel part. Your budget is a tight one which means you would probably only be able to get a 5Kv battery, this is not ideal. I think your budget is a bit low for what you looking at running. Just remember the old saying - cheaper will cost you more in the long run. Good luck with your install. It’s well worth it
 

 

 

thank you for the in depth response

think my property is similar

3 bedroom, 3 TV's, computer, laptops, 2 fridge's, stove is gas but oven isn't, microwave, coffee machine, router

i know my budget was low but i was hoping in the meantime to get away with inverter plus 5kw battery but im thinking that i need double that

 

is the Sunsynk setup plus panels the way to go? 

On 2023/08/09 at 6:47 PM, GerhardK83 said:

The most important factor is the Inverter and Battery, if you install the wrong inverter and battery combination then the installation is going to cost more in the future because the installation would basically need to be done from scratch.

As pointed out in previous replies you need to know how much power you use on a daily basis a good indication would be to look at your utility bills for a couple of months and use the one with the highest consumption for the same billing days, to calculate the consumption per day take the monthly consumption and divide that by the billing period and then divide that by 24 to get the hourly consumption.

One of the best value for money inverters at the moment is the 7.2Kw Kodak OG available @ The Powerforum Store around 19K5.
One of the best value for money batteries at the moment is the Kodak 3.68kWh 48V Battery Module available @ The Powerforum Store around 23K5 and for the 7.2Kw inverter you would need 2 of these batteries if you want to run the full 7.2Kw for an hour long.
Other batteries which can also be looked at is the MAGNETO Lithium-LiFePo4 Rack Mount 48V 5.1KWh or the MAGNETO Lithium-LiFePo4 Rack Mount 48V 9.6KWh or the Greenrich U-P3686 Lithium Battery 3.686kWh 51.2V.

I am not sure if the Magneto rack mount LiFePO4 units can communicate with the 7.2Kw Kodak OG inverter over the RS485 port (maybe @MAGNETO RENEWABLE ENERGY can advise if their batteries can communicate with the inverter mentioned?), I can confirm that the Greenrich battery does communicate with the 7.2Kw Kodak OG inverter over the RS485 port with the Pylontech profile on the inverter.

I have seen on the forum that there are a couple of Topics that you must use a specific inverter/s if you live in the Western Cape province, I hope that you do not live in the Western Cape province.

Make sure that you use a PVGreenCard Installer found @ https://www.pvgreencard.co.za/reg/installers/inst-directory-a contact a few of the installers in your area and ask them if they have experience with the inverter I listed above and the batteries, if they say no they do not know either of the brands and they want to suggest other products like a Pylontech type battery where the battery power cable connection looks like a spark plug lead connection tell them no thanks - my opinion is that those type of connections cannot handle large currents and eventually melt and or burn.

The Kodak 7.2Kw inverter can be used in parallel with another Kodak 7.2Kw inverter if the need arises to expand - Ask the electrician who does the electrical install to install a bigger DB for the inverter AC input side and AC output side so that there are space for future upgrades.
Upto 8Kw of solar panel power over 2 inputs per inverter so for 2 inverters that double to 16Kw.

One factor to keep in mind with solar panels is roof space, make sure that there is enough roof space that receives sun so that the solar panel can generate the most power when there is sunlight available.
The best value for money solar panels at the moment is the 460W Seraphim SIV Monocrystalline Series Silver Frame available @ Megastar Products https://megastarproducts.co.za/products/seraphim-siv-monocrystalline-series-460wp-silver-frame @ around R2k7 per panel and for the Kodak 7.2Kw inverter you can go upto 8 solar panels per input so that would be 16 solar panels for both inputs per inverter.

 

im in CT so is there something specific I need to use or do as per your comment?

And with installers is it best to get the whole set-up from them as opposed to buying parts and getting them to install? 

On 2023/08/13 at 6:50 PM, maqsmaqs said:

im in CT so is there something specific I need to use or do as per your comment?

And with installers is it best to get the whole set-up from them as opposed to buying parts and getting them to install? 

A] Go and read the following article at https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Graphics and educational material/CCT-Energy-PV-Brochure.pdf

 

B] Have a look at the inverter list at https://www.capetown.gov.za/City-Connect/Apply/Municipal-services/Electricity/apply-for-authorisation-to-install-a-small-scale-embedded-generation-system

 

If I understand the one point in article in A] correctly then from Oct 2023 then standby systems will no longer be allowed - they elaborate a bit more in the notes.

 

If you are going to use an installer then it is better for you to ask them to do the complete install otherwise they might complain if there are problems or they cannot help because they do not know the product\s.

 

The Powerforum has a store as well The Power Forum Store (https://powerforum-store.co.za/) and they are based in CT, I am not sure if they do installations as well @Energy-Jason please advise if The Power Forum Store do installations or do you work with installers in CT?

 

On 2023/08/13 at 6:47 PM, maqsmaqs said:

thank you for the in depth response

think my property is similar

3 bedroom, 3 TV's, computer, laptops, 2 fridge's, stove is gas but oven isn't, microwave, coffee machine, router

i know my budget was low but i was hoping in the meantime to get away with inverter plus 5kw battery but im thinking that i need double that

 

is the Sunsynk setup plus panels the way to go? 

Hi there sorry for the slow response been tied up with work. Sunsync isn’t bad. I know there were some issues with warranties and backup. If you’re budget focussed perhaps consider Luxpower. A bit cheaper and super solid. On the 5Kv units it’s the only unit in its category that allows dual PV connections as in two separate arrays on one inverter. Sunsync only has that from the 8kv and up. Also the app on the Luxpower is way better that Sunsync and a lot more intuitive 

3 hours ago, Crazy Kaktus said:

that allows dual PV connections as in two separate arrays on one inverter.

The SS 5kVA, Goodwe,Solis, provide 2 strings into the MPPT. Many 5kVA  inverters have this functionality.

5 hours ago, FixAMess said:

The SS 5kVA, Goodwe,Solis, provide 2 strings into the MPPT. Many 5kVA  inverters have this functionality.

We can add the higher power Kodak to this list as well. More and more inverters do have 2x MPPTs. 

10 hours ago, Crazy Kaktus said:

Sunsync only has that from the 8kv and up

No the SUNSYNK-5K-SG03LP1 has dual Mppt 13A + 13A 6500w even the SUNSYNK-3.6K-SG01LP1 has dual Mppt 13A+13A 4680w. To be honest i have installed both Luxpower Sna 5000 and Sunsunk-5k for the price diffrence i prefer the Sunsynk.

Edited August 16, 20232 yr by TaliaB

On 2023/08/09 at 3:59 AM, Crazy Kaktus said:

When I installed I realised that it would cost me more in the long run if I just opted for a battery and an inverter connected to the grid.

This is true. Batteries give you protection, but panels save you money because they enable you to generate your own power.

On 2023/08/16 at 12:37 PM, TaliaB said:

No the SUNSYNK-5K-SG03LP1 has dual Mppt 13A + 13A 6500w even the SUNSYNK-3.6K-SG01LP1 has dual Mppt 13A+13A 4680w. To be honest i have installed both Luxpower Sna 5000 and Sunsunk-5k for the price diffrence i prefer the Sunsynk.

Then they changed it. Because prior dual PV was only available on the 8Kv units. Nah I’m suuuuper happy with the Luxpower. Mate of mine has the Sunsync. His app gives continuous issues. Doesn’t connect… then had to reset… to much pain. Luxpower just works 😂