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New but need help


Leonc
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New to the forum and just got my solar system running.

My system has 6x330w panels linked in parallel, 5kw Axpert inverter and 2 Pylontech batteries.

Just got the ICC software up and running but only the battery info is displayed on Dashboard 2. The supplier gave me the ICC system but I cannot get it to work 

What must I change to get all the other info

thanks

Leon

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40 minutes ago, Leonc said:

My system has 6x330w panels linked in parallel

Apologies for not answering your real question, but I assume this will be in a 2s3p (two series, three parallel strings) configuration. A 330W panel will make around 45V open circuit, that makes 90V for two. Otherwise this is not going to work :-)

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In one or two occations over the years I had something simular. bmv shows data, but nothing ( or just static info...not updating) from the Infini's. I just pull out the USB cable from the Infini and wala....all good again. Rebooting pi doesn't solve, as inverter output stream gets it knickers in a knot.

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Thanks for the replies.

Chris yes all cables are in, the one that came with the Pi is in the console port to a USB on the PI, the other cable is in the CAN  port on the battery going to the inverter and then the usb cable from the inverter to the PI.It look as if the program sees the inverter but at the CPU  main and 2 it says ERROR READING DATA.

Sidewinder  I treid to unplug the USB but no luck.

I am not sure if this can be the problem but when i purchased my inverter I was told this is a new model as the previous models only had output of 4000w and this one now as a full 5000w

Thanks again for the help

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previous models only had output of 4000w and this one now as a full 5000w .

Could be the problem . After replacing my inverter with the new 5000 watt unit the data to the remote is also faulty . Still trying to sort that out . Thinking of replacing the com board with the old one . Could anyone advise . Thanks

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Just finished installing my new Pylontechs, initially had exactly same issue.

I have ICC on Raspberry Pi

Checked cable from Axpert output by connecting to PC and started WatchPower, again initially nothing, disconnected cable, and reconnected and suddenly the comms was back, not sure why though.

Plugged back into Pi and ICC up again.

So not sure what issue was, perhaps output from Axpert had Nickers in a know as Sidewinder suggested, and the unplugging and re-plugging a few times sorted it

Edit to above: It seems the Pylontech cable is the cause. When ICC restarts, again I get no comms from Axpert, if I then first unplug Pylontech cable, then unplug ICC Pi cable and re-plug it, I get comms back. Then I can re-plug Pylontech cable and still ICC working. Suspect this is either Pylontech or Axpert issue

Edited by Colin
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11 hours ago, Leonc said:

the other cable is in the CAN  port on the battery going to the inverter

Shot in the dark... but try removing that cable. Unless I missed something (which is very likely... I don't deal with this inverter nor want to), the RJ45 plug on the inverter is not a canbus connection, it's a serial connection. So connecting it to the can port on the battery will 1) not work and 2) possibly mess up the serial comms and explain exactly why it is not working.

Unless the axies has grown can capabilities, then you must please tell me.

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11 hours ago, Leonc said:

CAN  port on the battery

The can cable might be meant for other inverters. With a Victron setup you snap it directly into the back of the CCGX in the relevant RJ45 canbus connection and it just works. That might be why you have the cable.

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4 hours ago, Colin said:

Not sure how the Pylontech BMS should communicate with Axpert if no ICC though, perhaps it doesn't

Exactly. It doesn't communicate with the inverter. ICC can read voltage and SoC levels from it using the other cable though, which is where all the magic happens.

Even on Victron systems there is no CAN-connection between the battery and the inverter. The battery talks to the control computer (Venus-GX, CCGX) and that then relays the messages to all other units that needs it (the inverter and the solar chargers).

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Thanks Plonkster,

Very new to this and still learning. 

Am I correct in saying that the cable from the CAN port on the Pylontech is not required?

Was not at home yesterday, but will try it this afternoon.

Thanks again

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3 hours ago, Leonc said:

Am I correct in saying that the cable from the CAN port on the Pylontech is not required?

When used with this inverter, the can cable is not used.

For interest sake, this is what is sent on the CAN cable:

  • Voltage, Current, and State of Charge information (the things a BMV would also do)
  • Temperature information
  • Charge voltage and current limits (more about that later)
  • Warnings and Alarm conditions, eg voltage too high, charge current too high, temperature too high, cell imbalance detected

Importantly though, even if you don't do use this information, the battery still has its own protection built in, so if there is a serious cell imbalance, a high voltage condition, or any such thing, the battery will protect itself. This information is there for more intelligent setups, so such conditions can be avoided or warned against before the battery trips/disconnects.

For example the charge voltage and current feature: In a hybrid system, a hot battery can request of the inverter to discharge at a lower current and take the rest from the grid. Similarly, it can ask to be charged slower and rather feed the rest into the grid. Really clever batteries will lower the charge voltage if there is an imbalance, to accommodate the high cell. But very little of these features are useful outside of hybrid systems (in other words, with off-grid systems), and since that is what the Axpert is, you lose very little. I don't know if ICC can read the warning and alarm conditions, but it would be useful if it could.

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4 minutes ago, plonkster said:

When used with this inverter, the can cable is not used.

For interest sake, this is what is sent on the CAN cable:

  • Voltage, Current, and State of Charge information (the things a BMV would also do)
  • Temperature information
  • Charge voltage and current limits (more about that later)
  • Warnings and Alarm conditions, eg voltage too high, charge current too high, temperature too high, cell imbalance detected

Importantly though, even if you don't do use this information, the battery still has its own protection built in, so if there is a serious cell imbalance, a high voltage condition, or any such thing, the battery will protect itself. This information is there for more intelligent setups, so such conditions can be avoided or warned against before the battery trips/disconnects.

For example the charge voltage and current feature: In a hybrid system, a hot battery can request of the inverter to discharge at a lower current and take the rest from the grid. Similarly, it can ask to be charged slower and rather feed the rest into the grid. Really clever batteries will lower the charge voltage if there is an imbalance, to accommodate the high cell. But very little of these features are useful outside of hybrid systems (in other words, with off-grid systems), and since that is what the Axpert is, you lose very little. I don't know if ICC can read the warning and alarm conditions, but it would be useful if it could.

Thanks so much for the explantion, I will remove the cable this afternoon and see what happens.

What I need from the ICC is to see at what stage in the morning my batteries are fully charged as I want to add more load during the day, I believe the system is idling part of the day. 

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Plonkster/Colin

Yippie, I removed the cable from the CAN and everything is working now.

THANKS everyone for your help and input, really appreciate it, now I can see what my system is up to

Regards

Leon

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Another question about the Rasberrey and the ICC, is it possible to load the Axpert Watchpower software on the Rasberrey to run alongside the ICC software

If possible how do I install Watchpower on the Rasberry.

what I like from Watchpower is the log details not sure if the same is available in ICC

Thanks 

Leon

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1 hour ago, Leonc said:

is it possible to load the Axpert Watchpower software on the Rasberrey to run alongside the ICC software

Nope. Sorry.

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Hi Guys

I  have an older Axpert 5KVA with 60A MPPT. I need to replace my 4x100A/H  Batteries which are toked after 3 years abuse.

Can anyone recommend the Pylon packs? Do they work with the older Axpert?

The specs seem great on paper.

They look good with cycle life and apparently you can add packs as you can afford them.

Are they a better option than BYD plus or what would you recommend?

Any help greatly appreciated.

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2 hours ago, RobG said:

Are they a better option than BYD plus or what would you recommend?

About the same I think. BYD is 16 cells series, Pylontech is 15 cells series. I like the BMS in the Pylontech better (because it does not publish silly charge voltages*), but other than that they are pretty much the same kind of thing. Since the Axpert does not interface with the battery in this manner, it makes absolutely no difference to you.

* The BMS publishes a charge voltage of 56.5V, and usually a charge current of 35 amps per module in your rack (if my recollection is accurate). However, when you exceed 55V the BMS closes its "stop charge" relay and sets the allowed charge current to zero. So any system using the BMS published charge voltage ends up drawing a sawtooth voltage chart. Pylontech published 53.2V for charge voltage, and raises an alarm at 54V. Again... none of this matters to non-intelligent inverters that don't interface with the BMS.

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5 hours ago, RobG said:

Can anyone recommend the Pylon packs?

Hi RobG - Yes I can. I bought 2 in Dec 2017 and have recently bought another 2. I love them. Hassle free and now that I have a big enough bank my mother-in-law is unable to jinx them. With just 2 modules we were very close to 48V in the morning and time and again she would switch on the toaster or open a tap (causing the pressure pump to run) and trip the power. I have set the battery low disconnect to 48.3V which is high but I want to protect my investment.

 

5 hours ago, RobG said:

Do they work with the older Axpert?

Yes they do. I am busy with an upgrade and have two Axperts (2015 models with the black SCC heatsink at the top) that will share the 9.6kW  Pylontech pack.

5 hours ago, RobG said:

The specs seem great on paper.

They look good with cycle life and apparently you can add packs as you can afford them.

They cheat most other Lithium manufacturers quote cycle life to a SOH of 80% whereas Pylontechs quote a SOH of 60%.

Read @Zimnismoboy34 post http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1864-to-all-those-considering-lithium-batteries-read-this/

I still think they are a good buy but it would be amiss of me not to make you aware of this. If you take into account that the BYD is 2.56kW per module and knock of 20% for the Pylontechs dodgy SOH specs and the Pylontechs are still marginally cheaper.

The ability to add more modules as you can afford them won me over from Trojans (the other battery I was considering). I am not sure whether the Axpert is on the BYD's compatibility list.

 

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It's fair to say that Axpert is a bit dumb in terms of communication with the battery, so in order to utilize full potential of any lithium smart battery, including Pylon, you have to add ICC or some other monitoring that can read battery status over CANbus some smart bus and switch to grid when batteries are really flat (and not to switch prematurely, based on the voltage drop only).

The next thing that I don't like on Pylon is 15s, which translates to a higher current draw needed for powering the same load when compared to a standard 16s packs. And the recommended draw from a single brick is 25A, if I do remember, which is far from great. (I personally went for custom build-to-order LFP pack that has 100A discharge current per brick). 

The great features of Pylon is cheap and easy scaling, possiblity to gain 7yrs warranty and worldwide availability.

Over all, Pylon is a good choice and with 4 bricks it will work great for a typical home. But having just one brick sucks...

Edited by Youda
Strikedthrough CANbus as ICC does not utilize it
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