February 21, 20197 yr Welcome PlanB, you've come to the right place. Re. singe and three phase, others will jump in. Re. the Multiplus consideration, watch this thread: Victron grid tied from Scratch as it applies to both grid tied and off-grid with lead acid. Later we will get to Pylontech as lead acids are a wee bit more involved. Cannot comment on Inifini's bar search on the forum for users experiences.
February 21, 20197 yr 5 hours ago, PlanB said: Good day. Just started on this journey. I'm staying on a smallholding outside Centurion. We have 3 phase power. I have a 3phase borehole pump but the rest are all single phase. The eskom box has 3 meeters, 2 are of the olde revolving wheel type and one is .?? "new type" I'm hoping to get an Hybrid type inverter [Victron Multiplus or InifiniSolar 3K PLUS Single Phase Hybrid Single MPPT Inverter Charger bi directional ] ANd maybe one Lition Iron Battery [PylonTech US2000B Lithium Ion] and pair this with 5 or 6 300W solar panels. These should just power my house during the day and a portion of the night when it should switch over to Eskom until the next day. I have a Solar geaser (with Eskom backup) What I hope to get from this forum. Some advise on my Planned setup. To read about the things I should not be doing , or should rather be doing. Maybe also advise on better alternatives to the Inverters or batteries that I have chosen so far.. Usually these forums also are the first to know and to "broadcast" new technology or specials. and in time maybe also contribute lessons that I have learned. Hi PanB, i´ll tell you my PlanA for this kind of installs. Here, in Spain, is a very repetitive case when someone who has a house and some trees, need a borehole to water. We are going to suppose your pump is a 1.5 kW 3X400 VAC motor. In that case, peak start current would be 6 or 8 times nominal current, so you would need a very powerful low frecuency, which use to be not cheap. SMA, Schneider... What I ussually do is to install an isolated transformer, which rises voltage from monophase inverter to 380-400 V, which feed a VFD, driver, which obtains 3x400 VAC from 1x400 Vac, that comes from the output of transformer. This scheme allows you to reduce start current to 1.5-2.0 nominal current. Also, it allows you to modify the frecuency of pump motor, in order to adjust solar power to pump power. As example, if your pump is taking 2 Kw at 50 Hz, and you modify frequency via VFD to 45 Hz, the power needed would reduce to (45/50)x(45/50)*(45/50)x2 Kw = 1.45 Kw. 80
February 21, 20197 yr Hi @PlanB Here is a thread I started when I installed my Infinisolar which highlights some of the questions I had when starting off with it and some answers. Infinisolar install Here is also a thread where I provided some feedback later. Comment I'm very happy with the Infini considering how much it cost, and with ICC running on Pi it give me most functions of much more expensive inverters. I now also have it running with a Pylontech battery and very happy, using for backup and cycling it in the early hours of the morning. When I bought my inverter I bought two as my neighbour was also interested, but then changed his mind, so I kept the second one as backup "in case", but it has run very well for the past 15 months with absolutely no issues, so will probably look to sell the second unopened one. There is a lot of valuable information on the forum and most of what I learned came from here. If there are specific Infini questions about running it in Off-grid mode I'll try to answer. Good luck!
February 23, 20197 yr Author Hi guys....managed to read on DIP switches for the blue inverter and I would like to share my settings so as you can offer me your wise words. my battery bank is made of 4 nxt ceil 12v @200AH sealed batteries... 1. Charge current (ds3/4-on in step 1) is 100%-35amps 2. Current input (ds6,7,8-on,on,off) is 16amps 3. Absorption, float and storage voltages (ds7,8-off,on in step 2) are 58.8v, 55.2v and 52.8v respectively 4. Absorption time (ds6- on in step 2) 8 hours 5. Adaptive Charging (ds5-on in step 2) on 6. Dynamic current limit is off, UPS is on My setup is for back up so regular cycling won’t be there...Thanks in advance for your inputs
February 25, 20197 yr Author Hi guys...what can I use to safely disconnect the battery bank....battery switches are not available locally. The sparks/arcing that occurs when I reconnect the battery is just scary...
February 25, 20197 yr 16 minutes ago, Aizen79 said: Hi guys...what can I use to safely disconnect the battery bank....battery switches are not available locally. The sparks/arcing that occurs when I reconnect the battery is just scary... HI there. I use this. In my case 80A fuses are fitted but you can get higher values. Its a pretty chunky unit and makes you feel pretty safe. I got it from thepowerstore.co.za
February 25, 20197 yr 49 minutes ago, Aizen79 said: Hi guys...what can I use to safely disconnect the battery bank....battery switches are not available locally. The sparks/arcing that occurs when I reconnect the battery is just scary... You can use a resistor, 2200 Ohm 2 W, and quickly reconect.
February 25, 20197 yr Author 33 minutes ago, Elbow said: HI there. I use this. In my case 80A fuses are fitted but you can get higher values. Its a pretty chunky unit and makes you feel pretty safe. I got it from thepowerstore.co.za Does it have a switch to disconnect the battery supply...?
February 25, 20197 yr 12 minutes ago, Aizen79 said: Does it have a switch to disconnect the battery supply...? Yeah - you yank on the big handle. it pivots at the bottom and pulls the fuses out of their connections. Any arc safely contained inside.
February 26, 20197 yr 7 hours ago, Javi Martínez said: You can use a resistor, 2200 Ohm 2 W, and quickly reconect. I agree with Javi. I had this in my box of tricks. Connect the battery to the charger for a few seconds, remove and connect the cables. No more sparks of doom.
February 26, 20197 yr The sparks is because the big capacitors inside the inverter has to charge up, and when they are completely discharged they behave like a dead short (hence the spark). What you do to avoid the spark is "precharge" it, that is charge it slowly through a resistor. And that is what @Javi Martínez and @Ingo is talking about. Once the caps are charged, you can connect the cables without any sparking.
February 26, 20197 yr Author The resistor idea is cool...will definitely try it. Have for the moment settled for a cutout switch used commonly in our meter boxes....rated at 80amps at 240v...will it have any problems in my setup?
February 26, 20197 yr Author 2 minutes ago, plonkster said: The sparks is because the big capacitors inside the inverter has to charge up, and when they are completely discharged they behave like a dead short (hence the spark). What you do to avoid the spark is "precharge" it, that is charge it slowly through a resistor. And that is what @Javi Martínez and @Ingo is talking about. Once the caps are charged, you can connect the cables without any sparking. How long do you precharge it?
February 26, 20197 yr 7 minutes ago, Aizen79 said: How long do you precharge it? A few seconds. Technically you can calculate it if you know what size capacitor is inside the inverter. A capacitor charges to two thirds in one time period, which is calculated as R times C (the resistance of your precharge resistor, times the combined capacitance of the caps inside the inverter). The cap is fully charged after 5 periods, or 5RC. Say there is 15 000 µF of caps in there (5 big 3300µF tanks), then the time is 5 times R times C, so with a 2.2 ohm resistor that's 5*0.015*2.2 ~= 200mS. So one second should do it. Edit: Oh hang on... the post above said 2200 ohms, Well that will take a thousand times longer. So 20 seconds 🙂 Edited February 26, 20197 yr by plonkster
February 26, 20197 yr Author 2 minutes ago, plonkster said: A few seconds. Technically you can calculate it if you know what size capacitor is inside the inverter. A capacitor charges to two thirds in one time period, which is calculated as R times C (the resistance of your precharge resistor, times the combined capacitance of the caps inside the inverter). The cap is fully charged after 5 periods, or 5RC. Say there is 15 000 µF of caps in there (5 big 3300µF tanks), then the time is 5 times R times C, so with a 2.2 ohm resistor that's 5*0.015*2.2 ~= 200mS. So one second should do it. Edit: Oh hang on... the post above said 2200 ohms, Well that will take a thousand times longer. So 20 seconds 🙂 😳😳😳😳😳😳😵😵....wow that was informative. Wish Victron would incorporate a switch in their fuse blocks to avoid this. It would make replacing the fuse an easier task...
February 26, 20197 yr 2 hours ago, Aizen79 said: Wish Victron would incorporate a switch in their fuse blocks to avoid this Why? It's not as if you do this all the time... Precharge is a nice feature, I will admit that. But this is implemented in some batteries as well which might cause other issues when you have two components both attempting to slowly connect to the other one, so I think it is just one of those things you have to implement yourself if you need it that often. I find that I don't disconnect/reconnect my inverter that often... if I do it once a year it's not worth the extra hardware. Edited February 26, 20197 yr by plonkster
February 26, 20197 yr Author 1 hour ago, plonkster said: Why? It's not as if you do this all the time... Precharge is a nice feature, I will admit that. But this is implemented in some batteries as well which might cause other issues when you have two components both attempting to slowly connect to the other one, so I think it is just one of those things you have to implement yourself if you need it that often. I find that I don't disconnect/reconnect my inverter that often... if I do it once a year it's not worth the extra hardware. Since am new at this....am disconnecting the battery bank many times....after the excitement is over...the disconnects will be minimal. A fuse block with a switch with a tiny led to show when it’s ‘on’...would be cool
February 26, 20197 yr On 2019/02/21 at 11:03 AM, Javi Martínez said: What I ussually do is to install an isolated transformer, which rises voltage from monophase inverter to 380-400 V, which feed a VFD, driver, which obtains 3x400 VAC from 1x400 Vac, that comes from the output of transformer. This scheme allows you to reduce start current to 1.5-2.0 nominal current. I am interested in how you supply a 400v VSD with only one phase. What you can do, is install a 230v VSD which then gives you 2 x 230V output. The motor then needs to be wired in Delta to change the windings from 400V to 230V three phase.
February 26, 20197 yr 27 minutes ago, anotherbrownbear said: I am interested in how you supply a 400v VSD with only one phase. I have done something similar, but not quite the same a few years back. Used a VSD similar to what this guy advertise. I used 220Volt single phase in, and had a 3 phase output 220V between phases. Connected that to the secondary windings of a 380-110 volt three phase transformer and used it to step up the 220 to 380 and drove a small motor off it. Was only for a couple of weeks while we waited for the correct motor to be delivered from overseas. CFP Technologies. 012 5673618 0828570324 Website: www.cfptech.co.za Run your three phase machine from single phase using a 220V single phase input, 220V three phase output VFD and have the advantage of speed control as well. (Motor needs to be connected in Delta for 220V three phase operation.Most motors smaller than 4Kw are compatible) We stock 220V single phase input VFD's and compatible motors up to 7.5Kw.
February 26, 20197 yr Author Hi guys....my mk3 to usb is taking too long to be delivered ...would a usb to rj45 cable be able to connect to the blue inverter.? Or does the mk3-usb has special doo-hickey in it? Edited February 26, 20197 yr by Aizen79
February 26, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, Aizen79 said: Or does the mk3-usb has special doo-hickey in it? It has a small micro-controller inside that interfaces with the VE.Bus. VE.Bus is timing sensitive, and that is why you may not connect directly to it. It's like the KBus vs IBus differentiation in a BMW... iBus has all the non-critical stuff on it, K-bus has the internal control stuff, eg engine control on it 🙂
February 26, 20197 yr 18 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said: CFP Technologies. 012 5673618 0828570324 Website: www.cfptech.co.za Run your three phase machine from single phase using a 220V single phase input, 220V three phase output VFD and have the advantage of speed control as well. (Motor needs to be connected in Delta for 220V three phase operation.Most motors smaller than 4Kw are compatible) We stock 220V single phase input VFD's and compatible motors up to 7.5Kw. That`s what i said. That is exactly how a 230V VSD will work, it gives you 3 x 230V output. He says though, that you take 1 x 400V input and get 3 x 400V output. Which is wrong. 400V VSD needs at least two phases to operate. We sell ABB drives, 230V VSD is limited to 2.2kW which is also where most standard motors start going to higher voltages. Instead of 230/400V windings they become 400/690V
February 26, 20197 yr Author 19 minutes ago, plonkster said: It has a small micro-controller inside that interfaces with the VE.Bus. VE.Bus is timing sensitive, and that is why you may not connect directly to it. It's like the KBus vs IBus differentiation in a BMW... iBus has all the non-critical stuff on it, K-bus has the internal control stuff, eg engine control on it 🙂 Well explained....will patiently wait for it..👍
February 26, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, anotherbrownbear said: That`s what i said. Thanks for clearing that up. It seemed like you were asking a question.
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