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Axpert Back to grid Solar voltages


viper_za
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Hi Thys

 

Since I am off grid I do not use Program 12 & 13. 

Program 29 is meaningless. At its maximum of 48V the DOD would be about 50% which does not offer any real protection. If this setting is changed from the default 42V it then screws with Axpert's reported SOC (also not very reliable) so you are between a rock and a hard place.

 

Chris

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Hi Thys

 

Since I am off grid I do not use Program 12 & 13. 

Program 29 is meaningless. At its maximum of 48V the DOD would be about 50% which does not offer any real protection. If this setting is changed from the default 42V it then screws with Axpert's reported SOC (also not very reliable) so you are between a rock and a hard place.

 

Chris

Hi Chris

 

I have the 702 for SOC so that is covered.

The problem I'm having is when I run on batteries at night and have a high load for a minute or 2 the Voltage drops too much and the inverter goes to grid mode

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And not to punt AICC again but that is why it was built. Because the voltage is like a rubber band and jumps back up after a load you can not use it to control the mode. I have my voltage set at 46 volts to go to grid. That way the voltage is ignored as I wil never get there.

Then AICC uses the 702 SOC to switch the modes.

I have my soc set at 50% and my time window is to go to grid from 4:30 to 11:00 pm. Then we go to about 70% SOC in the morning and the cycle repeats it self. Check my EmonCMS feed and you will see when we are on grid and what the SOC is. Everything runs like clockwork now.

Hi Jaco

 

Yes I'm running it like that too but you know we are working with Windows and bluescreens do happen and for that I having the voltage set on the inverter provides a kind of safety net :)

Will tinker the volts till I get one that works good enough

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Hi Thys

 

In the ordinary course of events do you need grid power to get through from sunset to sunrise? If not then set you back to grid voltage lower.

Hi Chris

 

I should be able to do this but still testing it out only day 3 of running now.

Well I know all is working because my neighbour called me and said did I know the power was out from the last lightning strike  :D

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And that boys and girls, is why I use a BMV to decide for me when to go to grid.

And if Eskom is off, continue using batts until a) batts are flat or b ) Eskom comes back on.

 

Relays do not blue screen (nor does Win7, 8 and 10 - unless there are hardware errors  :P ).

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... That's generally why I don't use windows for such things. Even Linux has the occasional crash, though I find that happens once every two years or so :-) More often the problem isn't that the machine crashes, it's a resource issue, disk space, RAM, or so busy that it misses interrupts and loses data. That sort of thing. So I agree, for reliability, better to use some kind of embedded system :-)

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

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I've had Linux machines with a 1000 days uptime. Not rebooted once even in three years. Then again, I've been messing with Linux since '97, when you had to recompile the kernel just to get sound to work, so I have probably developed a style of buying hardware, installing and managing that augments stability to some extent :-)

But as I said, this is not my primary worry. Any OS can run out of disk space, memory, and when that happens, your software isn't responding as fast as it should. For some things it might not matter, for others it might be critical.

When I was looking into anti-islanding I noticed this especially: These devices often have heartbeat systems that check the device itself to ensure that it's operating correctly, to guard against exactly that kind of thing: A crash, stuck in an infinite loop, or whatever...

I'm not dissing AICC, you have a huge market in windows running Lemmings out there, and they are all already used to paying for software :-P

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I suppose I should add that my final year project was a network driver for an experimental OS that was designed for embedded systems. It ran all the code in ring 0 (at the highest privilege level). The language and compiler for this OS was limited to instructions that could be easily fed to a model checker, so you would model check your algorithm and if it checked out, there was no need for any of the privilege levels and protection measures.

 

A model checker is a piece of software that maps out all possible states your software can be in and ensures that certain conditions hold (which you specify, for example some states might be illegal -- the proverbial green light in both directions on a traffic control system -- and you also don't want any loops in your state graph, for those are likely places where infinite loops could exist.

 

Another approach to this would be to use a functional language, such as Erlang or Haskell.

Anyway, I've digressed from the topic of this thread. I would hate to come back after a long December holiday to find that my computer -- no matter what OS it is running -- stopped working halfway through and my batteries was severely abused because of that. Conversely, if my logging stopped working halfway through December, I probably wouldn't care. So for me, this is an opinion, I would prefer things that will cost me big money (such as batteries) to be protected by a less complex solution.

I think this is why Victron implemented hub-4 the way they did. Hub-4 is the grid-parallel battery stuff. You have to communicate with the inverter once every ten seconds. When you don't... it switches to a failsafe passthru mode. Same idea... even if you're using their own CCGX, you want a backup plan in case it breaks :-)

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Hi Thys,

 

I have program 12 set to 46V as jdp indicates, that is what I find a safe SOC for the batteries, we all know that voltages do no indicate SOC but at least it is a rough indicator more or less like an analog fuel gage on old cars. 

 

I have Program 13 set to 56V, I feel that if this voltage is any lower the batteries have not charged enough since going back to the grid. And in case it went back to the grid because there was a very high demand and the voltages sagged under 46V, if the sun comes back and the battery are in a high state of charge (ie. over 90% in my case) they will shoot up from 46V to 56V in about 15 minutes. If the value is any lower it can get into a catch 22 of going into battery mode and then going into grid mode. 

 

I have program 29 set to 42V, there is a catch to this setting, if you set it any higher it will cut back to grid when the grid is available at this voltage + 4V, I have not found this in any of the manuals but I read in other forums that this is the case. Also when I started playing with the system I set this much higher ie. 44V and the system would go back to the grid at 48V (way to high SOC in my opinion). So in case the grid is not available, it would discharge the batteries to a lower SOC than 50%.

 

Just to add to the software or no software controversy, I have been using Mpp patrol for the last 3 months in a earlly 2000s laptop running windows XP and it has never crashed, since we are in the winter here my panels do not make enough energy to spend the whole night in battery mode so I set the timer there to go back to the grid at 12:30am and then back to batteries at 8:30am. 

 

I am working on installing the second inverter and 3kw of panels soon, but for now everything is just sitting in the garage.

 

That is why I have not installed jdp software yet, I want my system to be complete before I can use it and fully enjoy its awsomenes!!!

 

Lastly, using those values above I have never seen the system going to the grid in normal sunny days, so they are there just a a back up for cloudy days. Also I would not be afraid to use this values as the  Trojan 105RE can be discharge to much lower values without any worrying. I have a pretty similar bank but with tubular plates know as PsZ200.

 

Regards,

 

Gustavo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Guys

 

What do you have the following programs set to for 48V Axpert systems?

Using 8x Trojan T105 RE batteries (Thanks TTT  :) )

 

Program 12: Setting voltage point back to utility source when selecting

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Adding to Plonksters post. 

What if your HUB4, the BMV fails or the all in one inverter gets stuck in a mode? 

Eskom has failed, affecting an entire country.  ;)

 

In the event of one being away for weeks on end, protecting continuous disastrous battery draining, that is the main concern right?

Well, the safest I have seen, switch off your system when you are away for weeks.  :P

Or, reduce the load that it can run 24 hours non-stop, without draining batts completely.

 

The more simplistic a design, the less the risk.

 

I drew the line on a BMV batt monitor to change plain old expensive relays. No OS, no HDD nor RAM to worry about.

And in case the relay fails that goes back to Eskom, or BMV fails, and my batts are drained 100%, I have Trojans. They can handle a few substantial discharges, but they won't, for I reduce the load.  :P

 

BUT, sharing the above, I was reminded of the time my charge controller failed out of the blue. There was no warning, nothing bar the sound of batteries bubbling furiously around 12ish. It was a beautiful and ominous sound.

If I was not here, no-one would have known there was a problem.

Charge controllers failing, and not switch off, now THAT is probably the worst that can happen when you are not there.

How do you cater for that other than disconnecting controller from the panels? It is a manual exercise.

And how will you know the controller has failed, other than hearing the batts boil, for if your system is under load, it will influence the volts and amps?

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Hi Thys,

 

I have program 12 set to 46V as jdp indicates, that is what I find a safe SOC for the batteries, we all know that voltages do no indicate SOC but at least it is a rough indicator more or less like an analog fuel gage on old cars. 

 

I have Program 13 set to 56V, I feel that if this voltage is any lower the batteries have not charged enough since going back to the grid. And in case it went back to the grid because there was a very high demand and the voltages sagged under 46V, if the sun comes back and the battery are in a high state of charge (ie. over 90% in my case) they will shoot up from 46V to 56V in about 15 minutes. If the value is any lower it can get into a catch 22 of going into battery mode and then going into grid mode. 

 

I have program 29 set to 42V, there is a catch to this setting, if you set it any higher it will cut back to grid when the grid is available at this voltage + 4V, I have not found this in any of the manuals but I read in other forums that this is the case. Also when I started playing with the system I set this much higher ie. 44V and the system would go back to the grid at 48V (way to high SOC in my opinion). So in case the grid is not available, it would discharge the batteries to a lower SOC than 50%.

 

Just to add to the software or no software controversy, I have been using Mpp patrol for the last 3 months in a earlly 2000s laptop running windows XP and it has never crashed, since we are in the winter here my panels do not make enough energy to spend the whole night in battery mode so I set the timer there to go back to the grid at 12:30am and then back to batteries at 8:30am. 

 

I am working on installing the second inverter and 3kw of panels soon, but for now everything is just sitting in the garage.

 

That is why I have not installed jdp software yet, I want my system to be complete before I can use it and fully enjoy its awsomenes!!!

 

Lastly, using those values above I have never seen the system going to the grid in normal sunny days, so they are there just a a back up for cloudy days. Also I would not be afraid to use this values as the  Trojan 105RE can be discharge to much lower values without any worrying. I have a pretty similar bank but with tubular plates know as PsZ200.

 

Regards,

 

Gustavo

Thanks Gustavo

 

I will give these a go

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  • 3 years later...

Hi There,

@GustavoMalaga Thank you for your settings, where I live, Cape Town Brackenfell Protea Heights, the sun is potent this time of the year right up until May next year. My question to you is, I am using the latest version of WatchPower which has an added charging equalization values, as well, I updated the Mecer (model SOL-I-AX-5M  5000VA/4000V) Firmware to  AxpertMKS5K74.40P which has more settings up to Nr 38 probably in conjunction with equalization charging in WatchPower. If at all possible assistance with the Equalization Time and Period, the values in the picture is what the Inverter default is, on the right side Equalization Voltage and Timeout. With this in mind would I still need a battery equalizer? My batteries are 8 Deltec 105Ah 1250 deep cycle, two rows of 4 connected in Series. See pic below.

 

 

 

 

 

20190930_155052.thumb.jpg.2781ecb996e76fd72ab23c9254f88140.jpg20191006_085231.thumb.jpg.bea98c963cbb7a6366e852353adc6a17.jpg

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3 hours ago, Kawaman said:

I updated the Mecer (model SOL-I-AX-5M  5000VA/4000V) Firmware to  AxpertMKS5K74.40P which has more settings up to Nr 38...

As a point of interest, where did you get this firmware update from? From Mecer themselves?

Is it publicly available?

Does your inverter now show U1 74 40 (i.e. your main firmware version number is now 74.40)?

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So it's possible to update a 5 kVA / 4 kW (i.e. PF0.8) inverter to 5 kVA / 5 kW (PF1.0) with just a firmware update? And it's safe and approved?

If so, that's the first time I've heard of this.

I'm interested in the availability of this firmware update file.

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Hi Coulomb,

When I purchased my Deltec Batteries the Solar Expert from Deltec Paarden Eiland Cape Town told me the charging values up until Value 31 and we couldn't go any further due to my old Firmware, he told me to contact Craig Jacobs at  Mustek in Richwood they are Mecer agents I gave him my Mecer model etc. Craig then sent me a download link from https://wetransfer.com/downloads it expires tomorrow so download now, the password is "daily" (without the inverted commas) for a RAR file  AxpertMKS5K74.40P.RAR

Hope it helps if not I will upload the RAR file, I'm at work at the moment so will send after 8pm

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10 hours ago, Kawaman said:

I have uploaded the firmware update for you and to share with Axpert/Mecer Inverters specific to 5000VA/4000W Model SOL-I-AX-5M.

Thanks; I got it from the first link anyway.

10 hours ago, Kawaman said:

Would it still be advisable to use HAO2 Battery Equalizers as there is Equalization Management in the new firmware...🤔

 

You don't need to use the equalisation features. But they can be very handy to overcome the charge bugs; just set the equalisation voltage to the same as the bulk/absorb voltage. That way you can extend the higher voltage charge time, overcoming to a degree the lack of charging.

So yes, I'd say it would be fine. But be sure to get the correct voltage settings specific to that battery.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 2019/10/08 at 3:34 AM, Kawaman said:

I have uploaded the firmware update for you and to share with Axpert/Mecer Inverters specific to 5000VA/4000W Model SOL-I-AX-5M.

I've just noticed that actually factory firmware version 74.40 as in your link is actually for PF1.0 models, i.e. 5000 VA / 5000 W. In fact, if you look carefully at your WatchPower screenshot, you can just make out "Nominal output active power" is 5000 W in the bottom right corner.

The Mecer model number SOL-I-AX-5M is unfortunately not unique; it seems to usually refer to PF0.8 machines, but a few PF1.0 machines manufactured late in 2017 were called SOL-I-AX-5Ms. Later on they were called SOL-I-AX-5Ps.

[ Edit: but from your serial number, your machine was manufactured in June 2015; I'm pretty sure that this was way before the first PF1.0 models. ]

So have you in fact upgraded your machine from 4000 W to 5000 W, just with firmware?

Edited by Coulomb
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Hi Coulomb,

Yes, I saw that as well after upgrading the Firmware, it now shows 5000W. To be honest, I have not challenged the Inverter, if it's at all capable of ascertaining a higher level to 5000W.

To find out the correct answer, I will contact the person at Mecer who gave me the Firmware and ask.

I will report back soonest, as this interests me, yourself and would many others.🤔

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2 hours ago, Kawaman said:

Hi Coulomb,

Yes, I saw that as well after upgrading the Firmware, it now shows 5000W. To be honest, I have not challenged the Inverter, if it's at all capable of ascertaining a higher level to 5000W.

To find out the correct answer, I will contact the person at Mecer who gave me the Firmware and ask.

I will report back soonest, as this interests me, yourself and would many others.🤔

@Kawaman Interesting info . Please give us feedback if your problem is solved . Thanks

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