Colin B Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 On 2021/08/13 at 12:45 PM, TonyH said: Here is a diagram that has passed COC Hi Tony, I am having Main E/L Tripping issues every time it rains, this is since my electrician installed an eath on my PV panels to an earth spike. Did you earth your PV panels ? My Sunsynk is currently Grid connected after the Mains E/L, not sure if this would be creating an issue. I have checked my pannels for leakage to earth, and there is none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 Hi Colin, the panels must be earthed to protect against lightning and a faulty panel. My panels are earthed. The Inverter input should be after the feeding EL from your main panel as yours is. For the EL to trip because of rain, water has to connect the earth to the live or neutral. That is unlikely due to the earth spike. Is your earth spike linked to the earth of your common earth for the inverter and house earth (Grid earth)? The earth spike should also be connected to the output of the ATS 240 relay to pull the Inverter output neutral to earth when the Inverter is on Island mode. This prevents a floating voltage on your neutral which can be 80VAC or more. Yellow Measure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin B Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 Thanks Tony, I came across this recommendation on the forum, and seems similar to your setup with the Inverter Grid connected before the Main E/L, so I'm going to give this a go. My house is old, and only has a combination OL-EL breaker wich is a 20 mA, so I will replace this with a 60 Amp OL Breaker, and a separate EL. Thanks for your response. TonyH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesDavis Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Hi Colin I see a possible change needed to this diagram ... The 2 25A MCBs on the lines to the 2 SPDs should not be there. The aim of the SPD is to protect the inverter from surges on the Escom and/or load lines. these 25A breakers will trip before the 35A ones in the inverter line, thus only disconnecting the SPDs from the system, the 35A MCBs should be the ones to trip in the event there is a voltage surge, to isolate the inverter as fast as possible. I trust that makes sense, and if I am wrong, will someone please correct me ... thanks CharlieD Scorp007 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta9 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 On 2022/03/13 at 7:28 AM, CharlesDavis said: Hi Colin I see a possible change needed to this diagram ... The 2 25A MCBs on the lines to the 2 SPDs should not be there. The aim of the SPD is to protect the inverter from surges on the Escom and/or load lines. these 25A breakers will trip before the 35A ones in the inverter line, thus only disconnecting the SPDs from the system, the 35A MCBs should be the ones to trip in the event there is a voltage surge, to isolate the inverter as fast as possible. I trust that makes sense, and if I am wrong, will someone please correct me ... thanks CharlieD Any confirmation on this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be4dawn Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Hey all so I installed an 5kw sunsync last night with a hubble am2. I saw that i have a floting n-e volt of about 110V.Im scared that this might danage alpliances ect. Already popped the surge protection plug. Im gonna install the relay tonight but my question is can i bridge straight to the Earth from the grid or do i definitely need to install an earth spike on the outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Be4dawn said: Hey all so I installed an 5kw sunsync last night with a hubble am2. I saw that i have a floting n-e volt of about 110V.Im scared that this might danage alpliances ect. Already popped the surge protection plug. Im gonna install the relay tonight but my question is can i bridge straight to the Earth from the grid or do i definitely need to install an earth spike on the outside? As far as I know, the earth can be bridged but the neutrals have to be separated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin B Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 On 2022/03/13 at 7:28 AM, CharlesDavis said: Hi Colin I see a possible change needed to this diagram ... The 2 25A MCBs on the lines to the 2 SPDs should not be there. The aim of the SPD is to protect the inverter from surges on the Escom and/or load lines. these 25A breakers will trip before the 35A ones in the inverter line, thus only disconnecting the SPDs from the system, the 35A MCBs should be the ones to trip in the event there is a voltage surge, to isolate the inverter as fast as possible. I trust that makes sense, and if I am wrong, will someone please correct me ... thanks CharlieD Thanks, agreed. I have not installed the SPD's on my install as the Sunsynk already has internal SPD's. The relay for the eath bond is a must though to het rid of the floating neutral when in island mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin B Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 On 2022/04/21 at 3:54 PM, PowerUser said: As far as I know, the earth can be bridged but the neutrals have to be separated. You cannot bridge the municipal Neutral and Earth even if it's to a separate Earth Spike, this will cause an earth trip on your Mains. Neutrals on the inverter input and output are bonded internally in the Sunsynk in "Normal" operating mode, so you cannot put a permanent earth bond on the inverter output Neutral. You need to use a relay so the Inverter output Neutral is only bonded to earth in when in Island mode. Hop this makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin B Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, Colin B said: Thanks, agreed. I have not installed the SPD's on my install as the Sunsynk already has internal SPD's. The relay for the eath bond is a must though to het rid of the floating neutral when in island mode. This is what have have installed now, working perfectly. pg2.pdf Tim003 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Colin B said: You cannot bridge the municipal Neutral and Earth even if it's to a separate Earth Spike, this will cause an earth trip on your Mains. Neutrals on the inverter input and output are bonded internally in the Sunsynk in "Normal" operating mode, so you cannot put a permanent earth bond on the inverter output Neutral. You need to use a relay so the Inverter output Neutral is only bonded to earth in when in Island mode. Hop this makes sense. I think, you misunderstood the question. @Be4dawn was asking, if he can bridge the municipal earth with the inverter earth. Even in your diagram, those appear to be bridged. Edited April 25, 2022 by PowerUser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin B Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 7 hours ago, PowerUser said: I think, you misunderstood the question. @Be4dawn was asking, if he can bridge the municipal earth with the inverter earth. Even in your diagram, those appear to be bridged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin B Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 On 2022/04/21 at 3:54 PM, PowerUser said: As far as I know, the earth can be bridged but the neutrals have to be separated. You are correct, earth can be bridged /common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRoDent Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 On 2021/08/07 at 4:34 PM, abeetude said: Step 1 - Ensure "Islanding Mode" is selected on the Inverter Step 2 - Remove the BLACK NEUTRAL wire which is currently screwed into the NC (Normally Closed) terminal Step 2 - Connect the removed BLACK NEUTRAL wire and connect it to the NO (Normally Open) terminal Step 3 - Connect from the Inverter ATS240V a cable to the relay pins 14 & 13 Step 4 - Connect N from the connector block to N on the Inverter LOAD and E to Earth on the Inverter Hope that helps. @Leshen Helped me figure it out a while ago so kudo's to him... This worked perfectly for me too. The instructions received from Segen Solar for their unit is entirely incorrect regarding numbering of the terminals and how to connect it. Scorp007 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_S Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) So when I do my install I must have the grid neutral and the inverter load neutral separated in my DB? So there will be 2 separate neutral bars? And then ofcourse install a relay. Does the relay earth have to go to a ground spike or can it go to the earth from the inverter/municipal DB earth? Edited September 27, 2022 by Chris_S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_S Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 On 2021/08/13 at 12:45 PM, TonyH said: Here is a diagram that has passed COC What software was this drawn in please? I need to get my drawings done aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 This was drawn with Microsoft paint. It is quite laborious but I had the time. Chris_S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GertJR Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 2021/08/13 at 12:45 PM, TonyH said: Here is a diagram that has passed COC Hi TonyH, Thanks for sharing. How did you bond your solar panels, I do not see this on the drawing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 8 hours ago, GertJR said: Hi TonyH, Thanks for sharing. How did you bond your solar panels, I do not see this on the drawing. I took the earths of the panels to the earth spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GertJR Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer barnes Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I'm an electronics engineer not a power engineer, so the following may or may not be relevant, but I've worked in several places around the world and this definitely happens. "Earth" is not the same everywhere, and it's not necessarily the same in any one place all the time. You can often measure a distinct E-E voltage between two earth spikes depending on their distance apart and the conductivity of the soil, especially between wet and dry. So quite where one binds earth and neutral in a distributed (eg farm) environment like mine always bothers me We have an earth spike at every DB (Eskom in, houses, shed, pumphouse etc) with EL units protecting everything. The one thing I haven't yet done on my new installation is install the E-N link relay, because frankly it bothers me. Not connecting netralsin a small system I get, but I've had some fairly serious tickles in my pump house because of untied neutrals, especially when drawing fairly large power across fairly long distances. Also, floating neutral voltages are a major potential source of RF interference (that used to be my field), upsetting TVs, radios, walkie talkies etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adri76 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2022/09/28 at 12:09 AM, Chris_S said: So when I do my install I must have the grid neutral and the inverter load neutral separated in my DB? So there will be 2 separate neutral bars? And then ofcourse install a relay. Does the relay earth have to go to a ground spike or can it go to the earth from the inverter/municipal DB earth? I have the same situation and would just like to confirm: I understand that the neutrals need to be separate and that the N/E bonding needs to happen when there is no grid (via relay/contactor), but my house has a N/E bond where the cables come into the house, so bonding Neutral to Earth when there is no grid connection will indirectly connect the inverter Neutral to the Grid neutral as they are bonded. Would this be an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Page Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Hi there, would this contactor not make this easier and simplify installation? Link below. MC1-20 Onesto Contactor 2Pole 20A 230V (12937) Step 1 - Ensure "Islanding Mode" is selected on the Inverter Step 2 - Remove the BLACK NEUTRAL wire which is currently screwed into the NC (Normally Closed) terminal Step 2 - Connect the removed BLACK NEUTRAL wire and connect it to the NO (Normally Open) terminal Step 3 - Connect from the Inverter ATS240V a cable to the relay pins 14 & 13 Step 4 - Connect N from the connector block to N on the Inverter LOAD and E to Earth on the Inverter Hope that helps. @Leshen Helped me figure it out a while ago so kudo's to him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tafseer007 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Good Day All I have purchased a Sunsync inverter and am about to have it installed but I need to ensure that i have all the components on hand for when it's being installed. While this thread is quite detailed, I have been hearing mixed information about a relay and whether it is still required for a 5kva Sunsync inverter which has an ATS240. 1. Is the Sunsync inverters sold in 2023, still require the relay if it has an ATS240? Seems Growatt's has it built in. 2. Is there a way to wire the inverter so that the relay is not required? 3. Which relay exactly is required? Please provide a link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp007 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) Good Day All I have purchased a Sunsync inverter and am about to have it installed but I need to ensure that i have all the components on hand for when it's being installed. While this thread is quite detailed, I have been hearing mixed information about a relay and whether it is still required for a 5kva Sunsync inverter which has an ATS240. 1. Is the Sunsync inverters sold in 2023, still require the relay if it has an ATS240? Seems Growatt's has it built in. 2. Is there a way to wire the inverter so that the relay is not required? 3. Which relay exactly is required? Please provide a link 1. Yes. Growatt is a off grid inverter unlike the Sunsynk 2. No 3. Any 10A or higher relay or even a small contactor. 220V AC coil with 2 N/C contacts. Edited October 2, 2023 by Scorp007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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