delemos6 Posted May 14, 2022 Posted May 14, 2022 (edited) HI Guys New here to the forum, as we are all tiring of Eskom I’m looking to get as much off the grid as possible , specking my own system I’m trying to get the most bang for my buck , it’s been a week of many different opinions and every time I make a decision it changes with new information that I receive . Details : Average Eskom usage : +/- 450-500 units per month (house is all LED , but I still have a stove and geyser wired in, will be changing stove to Gas ) Inverters I’m considering: 1 x Growatt SPF 5000 ES @ R11500 1 x Luxpower SNA 5000 @ R11500 1 x Deye / Sunsynk 5 KVA ( This is first prize but abit out the budget.) @R20500 Is it not potentially better to put 2 luxpower or growatts together for the same money as 1 Sunsynk? If I did this would the back feed(powering of non essentials) then be out weight by having the 10kva of power?( obviously I will add another battery as time goes on .) Does the Luxpower give non essential loads power if the battery is full and there is enough pv? Would the whole board not get power if I’m wiring straight to the board ? not sure what the big hype is when they talk about the sunsynk having this 'extra pv goes to the grid' feature? Doesn’t the lux power prioritise solar or solar and utility if there isn’t enough power? Thinking to place my geyser on a smart timer and only having it heat up from 13:00-15:30 Battery’s I’m between : 1 x Hubble 5.5 AM-2 1 x Pylontech UPC 5000 4.8 1 x Dyness 5.12 To me the pylon and Dyness are only .5c batteries and cat really provide the same power as the Hubble or be recharged as quickly? Hubble looks to be better built as well but I have read some horrors as well as some amazing stories of them being bang for buck. Pylon has the name but are they really all that they made out to be ? But the Hubble needs riot to reap the full reward and is another R2500??? Panels : Well I’m starting with 4 or 6 x 545w mono Canadian solar . House is facing NW. Any help would be greatly appreciated , my biggest thing is being able to upgrade long term and have the support should something go wrong as well as using the least amount of eskom as possible . Edited May 14, 2022 by delemos6 add on Quote
isetech Posted May 14, 2022 Posted May 14, 2022 (edited) From my little knowledge gained since I started doing research into solar. It is more about your requirements, there is no one solution that will suit everyone, even though most installer will tell customer that it is the case. They are learning the hard way. I have seen it on a few cases where a customer had a "standard" system fitted and now sit with a R100 k system which is pretty useless. Make sure you understand exactly what you want from the system, spending R100K on a rough idea of what you want is going burn you in the long run. You need to understand the capabilities of the inverter, you need to understand what the difference between a backup system and a true hybrid system. If you are just looking for a simple backup system with now feedback into the non essential part of the elctrical installation and there are no "special" requirements, then maybe a R11 k inverter is all you need, make sure the battery capacity is suitable for your application, this is another issue I see on a regular basis. Fortunately most customers just suck it and live with what is given to them because they dont know any better. Trying to find a person who knows better is a far bigger challenge than trying find the right inverter. The bottom line, make sure you fully understand what it is you are trying to achive. Edited May 14, 2022 by isetech delemos6 1 Quote
Sc00bs Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 The inverter is the key component in any solar installation IMO. As an overall percentage of the cost of the system, the R9k difference is relatively small compared to the extra functionality and flexibility you would get from the system. Unless you are going for an off-grid system then I would go for the Sunsynk due to it's better handling grid-power werner.potgieter, Yellow Measure, Nexuss and 2 others 5 Quote
Sc00bs Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 I noticed what I think may be an issue with your panel selection. Amperage on the 545w mono Canadian solar is 13.14A @ 41.45V according to the specs. Maximum amperage per MPPT on the 5kw Sunsynk is 11A. the panels will still work, they will however be throttled to 11A by the MPPT controller so in effect you will only be able to get 455W per panel. If you decide to go with the Sunsynk inverter you may want to consider getting a panel with closer to 11A max. The 420W Canadian Solar will give you the best watts per rand but if you want to maximise the power produced, the 455W Canadian Solar panels as they have an IMPP of 11A butr cost per watt is more expensive than the 420W panels. The 545W panels are the most expensive panels per watt to purchase BTW. delemos6 1 Quote
Nexuss Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Sc00bs said: I noticed what I think may be an issue with your panel selection. Amperage on the 545w mono Canadian solar is 13.14A @ 41.45V according to the specs. Maximum amperage per MPPT on the 5kw Sunsynk is 11A. the panels will still work, they will however be throttled to 11A by the MPPT controller so in effect you will only be able to get 455W per panel. If you decide to go with the Sunsynk inverter you may want to consider getting a panel with closer to 11A max. The 420W Canadian Solar will give you the best watts per rand but if you want to maximise the power produced, the 455W Canadian Solar panels as they have an IMPP of 11A butr cost per watt is more expensive than the 420W panels. The 545W panels are the most expensive panels per watt to purchase BTW. The 5Kw Sunsynk has 13Amp MPPT's . I have seen a user on here and installer accidentally paralleled 2 strings on the one MPPT and it was pinned at 12,8amps most of the day lol. delemos6 and Yellow Measure 2 Quote
Sc00bs Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 You can get 10 x 420W (4200Watts) panels for pretty much the same price as 6 x 545W panels (3270W) Do you have any East or NE facing roof available? If so, using 420W panels I would split the panel install over two strings with 5 panels in each string (200V per string) but get them to put extra rails and make sure the cables are long enough so you can just add extra panels later when the funds are available (up to a max of 10 panels per string @ 395V). delemos6 1 Quote
Sc00bs Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, Nexuss said: The 5Kw Sunsynk has 13Amp MPPT's . I have seen a user on here and installer accidentally paralleled 2 strings on the one MPPT and it was pinned at 12,8amps most of the day lol. Ahhh, thanks @Nexuss that would be with the latest firmware update I assume, the specs I have still say 11A The 545W panels still work out as the most expensive when you calculate the cost per Watt. You can still get 8400W of solar using the 420W panels so not really an issue. Yellow Measure and delemos6 2 Quote
Nexuss Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sc00bs said: You can get 10 x 420W (4200Watts) panels for pretty much the same price as 6 x 545W panels (3270W) Do you have any East or NE facing roof available? If so, using 420W panels I would split the panel install over two strings with 5 panels in each string (200V per string) but get them to put extra rails and make sure the cables are long enough so you can just add extra panels later when the funds are available (up to a max of 10 panels per string @ 395V). Something to remember is the extra cost for the rails and roof hooks /mounting hardware when you are going lower wattage panels,i was quite surprised how much this can add to the price. zsde, delemos6 and hoohloc 3 Quote
isetech Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 The Sunsynk inverter PV input current is 11A+ 11A PV voltage (100V-500V) VOC to be considered when selecting panels. MPPT range V - 125-425V delemos6 1 Quote
Krokkedil Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 1. Are you planning to feed back into the grid? then yes Sunsynk 2. if you do not plan to feed back the luxpower with its 2 MPPT units 3. The pylontechs are good but there are batteries that work very well, i use the Lithium battery SA unit and it works very well 4. like the people said do not use panels that can deliver 18A if your MPPT can use maximum 11 Amp. Hope You have a marvelous time designing and building your system. hoohloc and delemos6 2 Quote
delemos6 Posted May 15, 2022 Author Posted May 15, 2022 Thank you for all the replies Rather than quote all I'll just comment and reply on a few points : The sunsynk or a deye really is my first choice just trying to see what the R9k difference really is(well R11500 as I obviously need the Wi-Fi?), this whole smart load seems to be the big thing but honestly the way I wanted this wired in was straight to the my db , no separation of essential vs non ... To manage the geyser I was going to place a smart breaker on and trigger it to switch on around mid day( if i were to do this what benefit does the smart load really have then if i were to use a lux or growatt? ) Our oven is barely used in the house and we just bought a gas stove so that's one less thing to be worried about , what I'm getting too is I really doubt we going to be going over the 5kw mark too often. I do want hybrid (blending) functionality though which I see all the inverters seem to be capable of doing?? Question : If I were to pull over 5kw on either of these inverters and I'm wired straight to the board would it just get the power through the grid then in a sort of bypass or would it overload and fault the inverter? The 545w I chose as I can get them for R3100ea & need less mounting kits & roof space , it also allows me to add on for sometime as I hear once these panels get discontinued you have no hope in adding panels again ? so 545w is sort of the latest?( I used the 'NMOT' values) What does the mppt handle on the luxpower(attached) as the sunsynk with the new firmware definitely seems to be taking 13a. Coming back to my roof story I had a typo at NW , My iPhone says I'm NE and my Garmin watch says I'm North facing go figure , I do have good sun on my roof almost all day long . Roof image attached.(With compass indicator , bottom right ) No plan to back feed the grid as I'm based in Johannesburg , Eskom doesn't want our help and probably isn't worth back feeding anyway nor will I really generate much more than what house needs I don't think ?Forgive me though If I'm miss understanding 'backfeed' and if back feed means blending utility with pv well I'm after that . Coming back to batteries I can get the hubble or pylon tech at the same money ( pylontech is a US5000C( higher cycles than a UP5000) , but pylontech is .5c ? The pylontech is looking better in terms of not needing to pay for a extra dongle like you do with the hubble or dont you need that If I go with sunsynk. Thanks for all the support guys. Quote
Yellow Measure Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 11 hours ago, Sc00bs said: Maximum amperage per MPPT on the 5kw Sunsynk is 11A. 9 hours ago, isetech said: PV input current is 11A+ 11A The 5K Sunsynk' MPPTs were upgraded to 13A each about 18 months ago already. If you get one that clips at 11A, request a software update. 11 hours ago, Nexuss said: The 5Kw Sunsynk has 13Amp MPPT's Correct. Leshen 1 Quote
Yellow Measure Posted May 15, 2022 Posted May 15, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, delemos6 said: If I were to pull over 5kw on either of these inverters and I'm wired straight to the board would it just get the power through the grid then in a sort of bypass or would it overload and fault the inverter? Looking at the specs: It is my understanding that you can draw up to 10K for 10 seconds, and 7.7k continuously (from the grid). I would select other panels though as @Sc00bs has suggested. On batteries, I have both Pylontech US 3000 and Hubble AM2 on two homes, and I would go for Hubble if I did another install. Edited May 15, 2022 by YellowTapemeasure delemos6 1 Quote
Krokkedil Posted May 16, 2022 Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) You are on the right track. I have never seen my 5kw inverter at 5kw, I dont know why a person will have lets say the tumble dryer and a geyser on at the same time. I used to have a 3kva inverter and that was too small when the maid wanted to Iron With the 5kw i had the tumble dryer on and she irons and i turned on the kettle and it maxed out at 4,7kw for the time while the kettle was boiling. then it shot down again and the iron turns on for small amounts of time less than one minute when it is hot. The thing is we all look at worst case scenario and speck our system according to this but usually under normal conditions the inverter sits at idle at about 300-500w Edited May 16, 2022 by Krokkedil delemos6 1 Quote
isetech Posted May 16, 2022 Posted May 16, 2022 15 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said: The 5K Sunsynk' MPPTs were upgraded to 13A each about 18 months ago already. If you get one that clips at 11A, request a software update. Correct. They should update their website data sheets https://www.sunsynk.org/manuals delemos6 1 Quote
Bobster. Posted May 16, 2022 Posted May 16, 2022 6 hours ago, Krokkedil said: I have never seen my 5kw inverter at 5kw, I dont know why a person will have lets say the tumble dryer and a geyser on at the same time. A person won't know it's happening, but it can happen. I have a 4.6Kw inverter. It can handle 10 second peals of 6.9Kw. The "background noise" in the house is 300 to 400W. Say the heat pump (on the backed up circuits) kicks in. Now we're up 1.7 to 1.8 kw for at least 45 minutes. Microwave gets turned on. Dishwasher gets started - early in it's cycle it heats water so draws a lot. The kettle gets turned on. Suddenly we're over the 6.9Kw peak for more than 10 seconds and the inverter shuts down. One person doesn't do this, but there is still an overload. Think of the geyser running, somebody using a hairdryer and then the microwave is used.... In both examples (and the first one actually happened at my house), the wild card is the water heating because the person turning stuff on in the kitchen/bedroom can't easily tell if it is drawing or not. delemos6, BryanOC6 and hoohloc 3 Quote
isetech Posted May 16, 2022 Posted May 16, 2022 You can use an energy control unit to assist. https://cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/CBI_ECU_SERIES_DAT_3PAGES_854KB.pdf delemos6 1 Quote
hoohloc Posted May 16, 2022 Posted May 16, 2022 12 hours ago, Krokkedil said: You are on the right track. I have never seen my 5kw inverter at 5kw, I dont know why a person will have lets say the tumble dryer and a geyser on at the same time. I used to have a 3kva inverter and that was too small when the maid wanted to Iron With the 5kw i had the tumble dryer on and she irons and i turned on the kettle and it maxed out at 4,7kw for the time while the kettle was boiling. then it shot down again and the iron turns on for small amounts of time less than one minute when it is hot. The thing is we all look at worst case scenario and speck our system according to this but usually under normal conditions the inverter sits at idle at about 300-500w This depends on how many people you have in the house hold. I have gone close to 8kw on many occasions in my house. My wife hated being limited on a number of appliances to use. with the geyser ON, AC on, washing machine, dishwasher running, she will decide its time to cook a storm and the house keeper decide to iron school uniform before the kids get back from school. 10Kw or 8kw inverter is a must in a house hold like mine And you have enough solar and the batteries fully charged, why not? If not planning to export to the grid, I would go for 2 x Luxpower and have four MPPTs, then I will have the flexibility to have my PV panels facing North, East, west and south. Plus you can have everything in your house running on the two inverters, no need to split the DB into essential and non-essential. Quote
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