Perhaps we need to suggest to Sunsynk that the “limit to load only” checkbox should be available within the settings for each time slot in the timer. Then one could set times when it is ON (do not support non-essentials) and other times when it is OFF (do support non-essentials)

9 minutes ago, Patrick OReilly said:

Perhaps we need to suggest to Sunsynk that the “limit to load only” checkbox should be available within the settings for each time slot in the timer. Then one could set times when it is ON (do not support non-essentials) and other times when it is OFF (do support non-essentials)

Well, this video talks somehow about this issue but 1 year later his suggestions are still ignored by SunSynk. May be you can find a better way to to suggest it to them 🙂

 

 

24 minutes ago, PowerUser said:

What if I have loadshedding and I want to use more than 2000W during that time on the Load side? Isn't limiting the power going to prevent that?

No the work mode time slots and power slots are only active when there is grid available.

4 minutes ago, Nexuss said:

No the work mode time slots and power slots are only active when there is grid available.

Thank you! However it's still not ideal. I wonder why Sunsynk doesn't have the same setting as on Deye - "Zero Export to CT". It's the same inverter, just that Sunsynk removed it from their software, thus limiting the options compared to Deye.

1 minute ago, PowerUser said:

Thank you! However it's still not ideal. I wonder why Sunsynk doesn't have the same setting as on Deye - "Zero Export to CT". It's the same inverter, just that Sunsynk removed it from their software, thus limiting the options compared to Deye.

Yea not ideal but does the job for me. I use the Solarman dongle and have the Zero Export to CT option on my remote control page. This is the same as "zero export" on the sunsynk inverter itself... 

2 minutes ago, Nexuss said:

Yea not ideal but does the job for me. I use the Solarman dongle and have the Zero Export to CT option on my remote control page. This is the same as "zero export" on the sunsynk inverter itself... 

Great idea! I also use the Solarman dongle. Maybe I will try to change the setting from there and see.

Just now, PowerUser said:

Great idea! I also use the Solarman dongle. Maybe I will try to change the setting from there and see.

Its the same thing so it wont do anything different . If you select zero export to CT it means u select "zero export" on the inverter. It just not labeled the same on deye and sunsynk.

3 minutes ago, Nexuss said:

Its the same thing so it wont do anything different . If you select zero export to CT it means u select "zero export" on the inverter. It just not labeled the same on deye and sunsynk.

Ok then. May impression was that on Deye, "Zero Export to CT" means, zero export from the battery up to the CT coil. 

14 hours ago, PowerUser said:

Ok then. May impression was that on Deye, "Zero Export to CT" means, zero export from the battery up to the CT coil. 

I think what it really means is "Zero export through CT".  All the labeling on these options seems less than very clear... 😕 

In my understanding you can do one of the following three things with your power (Very much as described in the video @PowerUser posted earlier in this thread. And I'm ignoring the battery and AUX ports for the purposes of this post):

1. Use available power for the essential load only.
   Power to the LOAD port only.
   On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Zero-Export + Limit to Load Only".
    
2. Use available power for both essential and non-essential.
   Power to the LOAD port, and to the GRID port, using the CT to prevent EXPORT.
   On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Limited to Home".
   Based on the chat above I think on the Deye App this is labelled "Zero Export to CT".
    
3. Use available power for all loads and export any excess.
   Power to the LOAD port, and to the GRID port, even EXPORTING past the CT to the grid.
   On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Selling First".

That's my understanding anyway, and I do find the wording less than obvious. I seldom do any settings on the Inverter itself, so I'm not sure what the labelling looks like on the inverter's onboard screens. That fact this it is different there at all is just another cause for confusion!

I have always assumed (I know - very dangerous) that the Deye and Sunsynk inverters have identical capabilities, just with different labels. Perhaps a Deye user can (1) confirm/deny my assumption, and (2) provide the equivalent wording for those options on the Deye kit?

Edited June 26, 20233 yr by Patrick OReilly
Added reference to the video posted previously.

Deye:

1. Zero export to Load

2. Zero export to CT

3. Selling first

10 hours ago, Patrick OReilly said:

• Use available power for the essential load only.
  Power to the LOAD port only.
  On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Zero-Export + Limit to Load Only".
   
• Use available power for both essential and non-essential.
  Power to the LOAD port, and to the GRID port, using the CT to prevent EXPORT.
  On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Limited to Home".
  Based on the chat above I think on the Deye App this is labelled "Zero Export to CT".
   
• Use available power for all loads and export any excess.
  Power to the LOAD port, and to the GRID port, even EXPORTING past the CT to the grid.
  On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Selling First".

Yip this is correct. And just noting that on option 2 - the non-essentials will draw from your battery too provided the SOC is above the min SOC set for that time slot. That's particularly relevant if day-time slots have a low minimum SOC set. With the very poor solar winter we're having in Cape Town, on the handful days that we've seen the sun I manually change from option 1 (limit to load) to option 2 (limit to house) on the fly so that any surplus solar can go towards non-essentials. 

And when a particularly poor day lies ahead for the following day, I disable the timer and essentially use the inverter/battery as a UPS (keep battery at 100% SOC) and let what little PV power there is contribute to the house load (on those days I'll only get 5-6 kwh and never because of lack of load) - thereby also saving on battery cycling and I suppose related inefficiency. All setting changes done through the app. 

Interesting feedback from @Kalahari Cruiser

 

Up in Gauteng we’re having a cool clear winter (the norm for us) so we are benefiting from the solar generation throughout the day. My plant generated 22.2 KWh on 22 June - I kept the load up just to see what I could get from it on the shortest day of the year. But, my sister in the Cape shares your experience (her system is listed in my signature too since I monitor and advise her), so I feel your pain… 😔

Since the manufacturers seem to find it difficult to speak down to us mere mortals, it seems a well-written “Sunsynk/Deye Inverters for Dummies” would be a valuable reference.

Should I try do that…? 🤔 With my schedule it may take a while…

I am planning using a DEYE hybrid SUN 5K P1 -EU. I may not and can not inject pwr into the grid. To avoid this and the inverter being able to supply all loads via the grid port I think I must use the CT and selected zero export to CT. But how does this work? Is the inverter reducing pwr when it senses pwr is flowing in the opposite direction of the arrow ( placed towards inverter) or does it manages pwr based on a minimal amount of pwr must be able to flow towards the inverter ( positive flow). I assume The first option does not prevent the inverter trying to injected into the grid by increasing working voltage, the second option solar and batt  pwr is prevented to flow towards the grid, no pwr is injected and voltage stays balanced. For me it is important to know how the DEYE manages this as I may not and can not inject inverter pwr into the grid.

The DEYE  also has a setting   Zero-export power which can be set for zero export . Is this for zero export to load or for zero export to ct or both? And the same question, how it works, base on  positive current or negative current ? the shown default setting of 20 is positive; if it is suitable for both zero export modes this must be managed using an internal CT. or does the DEYE combines both if a CT is installed?

 I want to be able to use solar and batt pwr for all loads. Is this possible based only on the selection zero export to CT or must I use time off use in System Work Mode to allow the battery to pwr normal load?

 I am planning   to use the inverter in an existing off grid installation which means it can not inject pwr into the grid  but must avoid it tries to  do so. I suspect other wise the inverter parallel side ( grid port) will constantly increase the bus voltage in an attempt to overcome normal system voltage.

Also I plan to connect EV V2L on the GEN port.

thanks in advance for the information

Edited July 29, 20232 yr by demille

On 2023/06/27 at 7:11 AM, GreenFields said:

Deye:

1. Zero export to Load

2. Zero export to CT

3. Selling first

 

 

On 2023/06/26 at 11:10 PM, Patrick OReilly said:

I think what it really means is "Zero export through CT".  All the labeling on these options seems less than very clear... 😕 

In my understanding you can do one of the following three things with your power (Very much as described in the video @PowerUser posted earlier in this thread. And I'm ignoring the battery and AUX ports for the purposes of this post):

1. Use available power for the essential load only.
   Power to the LOAD port only.
   On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Zero-Export + Limit to Load Only".
    
2. Use available power for both essential and non-essential.
   Power to the LOAD port, and to the GRID port, using the CT to prevent EXPORT.
   On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Limited to Home".
   Based on the chat above I think on the Deye App this is labelled "Zero Export to CT".
    
3. Use available power for all loads and export any excess.
   Power to the LOAD port, and to the GRID port, even EXPORTING past the CT to the grid.
   On the latest version of Sunsynk's App this is labelled "Selling First".

That's my understanding anyway, and I do find the wording less than obvious. I seldom do any settings on the Inverter itself, so I'm not sure what the labelling looks like on the inverter's onboard screens. That fact this it is different there at all is just another cause for confusion!

I have always assumed (I know - very dangerous) that the Deye and Sunsynk inverters have identical capabilities, just with different labels. Perhaps a Deye user can (1) confirm/deny my assumption, and (2) provide the equivalent wording for those options on the Deye kit?

DEYE Hybrid SUN 5K P1- EU has:

1.Selling first

2, Zero export to load: The build in CT will detect pwr flowing back to the grid ( manual) 

3.Zero export to CT. The hybrid inverter will NOT sell pwr to the grid ( manual)

4, Solar sell: specified,  if 2 or 3 are active.

5 max sell pwr:  working mode is not specified

6. Max export power: for zero export mode  ( 2 and 3 ?)It tells the grid output pwr. To ensure the hybrid inverter won't feed power to grid ( manual)

7. Grid peak shaving: working mode is  not specified

How does this work? 

1 is obvious;

2 This is manged with internal CT , managing the Grid port of the inverter,  not  grid to home. If it is based on current flowing back to the grid it does NOT prevent some pwr is injected;

3 This is managed using an external CT and the position where it is placed is therefore most important. One can use it for other things as exporting to GRID for example to divide connected non essential load into  grid powered only and grid + inverter.  Depending on where the CT is placed it can or can not be used to limit or manage load injection into the grid, manage grid to home. The external CT will detect pwr flowing back to grid ( manual). This way injection into the grid is NOT prevented.

4. Solar sell: how this works? If it is active during 2 it must be managed by an internal CT, an external CT is not needed;. When it is active during 3  does it use the external CT?

5. Sets the max output flow into grid. Where it is measured? Internal CT  in mode 1, 2  and 3 ( grid port inverter) or by the external  C/T if 3 is selected?.

6. The name insinuates that the export is limited and not the import. Inverter or Grid? If this setting  is active in both zero export modes how it is managed?  . Default setting is 20W. If only an internal CT is used I assume this must  prevent  the inverter to export using its grid port to pwr non essential load. What is the difference using mode 2 only?  And how this works in mode 3? if the external CT is used  and the default setting is 20W this assumes always  min 20W has to flow from grid towards  loads otherwise there is little difference with mod 3 only. In this case one can use the setting to maximize export to grid ( max export power setting? ) ; if a set value is allowed to flow from inverter to grid  it does not what is intended  written in the manual. How it will ensure the hybrid inverter won't export power to grid, according to the manual the main reason to use this setting?

7. Grid pwr is limited to set value. If the load ( back up + home  or back up only?) exceeds the allowed value it will take PV and batt pwr as supplement.( also for non essential load if in mode 3?) If requirements are still not met more grid pwr is used.  Is this active in all modes? Does it use an internal CT in MOD 2 and 1 and the external CT in MOD 3?  This assumes if the setting is activated always grid pwr is used till the set point. if  it is managed by internal CT only and an external CT is NOT needed the setting does NOT include non essential load  and  NOT at all  does shave the total grid power and non essential load is not able to use PV and BATT power even in mode 1 and  3. Setting can be used to prevent inverter pwr is injected into the grid, for example if set to 100W. How this is used in combination with 6 ? 

One may say the use of most settings and the combination is not very well explained in the manual. 

In countries where one has to pay an utility user fee based on the total installed pwr if some current is injected into the grid it is important to know how this works exactly. If used in Island operation injection into the grid is not possible and management based on power flowing back to the grid can not work!

Edited July 30, 20232 yr by demille

1 hour ago, demille said:

In countries where one has to pay an utility user fee based on the total installed pwr if some current is injected into the grid it is important to know how this works exactly. If used in Island operation injection into the grid is not possible and management based on power flowing back to the grid can not work!

In island operation the in series inverter  creating the island can be connected to the available distribution network ( grid port, utility) Parallel inverters used in an island are coupled with the grid port to the output  of a main off grid inverter or a main power generator., not to the grid.  A coupled parallel inverter  may not be able to increase system island voltage which means it is able to pwr to the loads and must be able to reduce its output to prevent voltage build up ( in an attempt to sell back surplus pwr). Most parallel solar inverters have the ability to connect a CT and hace active pwr control available.  it may depend on the way the inverter uses this information. and how sensitive the censor is to be suitable for to be used in an island.  And this information is often not available.

In my country ( Belgium) most home installation are single phase 40A. Installing solar panels the system is limited by law to 5KW on-grid  use. This is not enough for charging an EV using solar pwr. A solution is to install a 5kw hybrid connected to the grid.  The back up output can be used to install the extra solar pwr needed by creating a private island. For this one can use normal solar on-grid  inverters . 

The DEYE hybrid has a setting "ac coupled on load site". it probably must be selected if an on-grid inverter is connected to the load port. I don't know what this setting does exactly, but maybe someone out there knows.

Not sure if this is the best place to post these questions, but I have recently installed a Deye 12kw 3 phase inverter system, and the readings on the LOAD section are not what the installer keeps on telling me - they say the Deye never shows the non-essentials in addition to the essentials  when set to "Zero Export to CT" - whereas mine does. This forum seems to suggest that the Deye does indeed show the combined total. My installers keep on telling me that they have never seen this and my Deye does not show this - but it does. I think they only know Sunsynk inverters, and maybe those do not? They originally were going to install a Sunsynk, but I got a Deye instead. We have also had significant problems with the CT sensors being fitted wrongly and wired to the wrong phases in the inverter - causing it to go crazy when "Zero Export to CT" in on ... they just spent 2 hours trying to get this correct and still do not seem to have them in the right place. Last question is to make sure that if the CT are in the right place, wired correctly, and "Zero Export to CT" is on, that the inverter is clever enough to not have a problem if the non-essentials on one of the phases is over the 4kw limit the inverter can handle - i.e. does the inverter make sure it does not try to push out say 9kw on phase 3 if the demand is that high from the non-essentials? When the 3 CTs were incorrectly wired to the incorrect terminals, the Deye kept on overheating and switching off while trying to push out 17kw from a 12kw inverter to the non-essentials.

Hi @Lekud26

I'm a Sunsynk user, so cannot say anything for certain re Deye. But they are the same hardware, so the software should really follow similar principles...

My Sunsynk Inverters definitely do include non-essential load in the load figure when configured to "Zero Export". And they do not include it when configured to "Limit to Load".  On the Sunsynk monitoring I can customize the graphs to show the flow through the "Grid" port - which is negative when the Inverter is feeding non-essential load. I don't know what the Deye monitoring allows though. I can also see that the "Load" figure = the CT when in zero export, and it follows the Grid figure when limited to load.

From your experience I would hazard a guess that the installers don't really understand how the Deye/Sunsynk Inverters handle the non-essential loads. The CT is critically important - it must be correctly installed (correct location & correct direction). If they are getting that wrong, then I think they are guessing rather than knowing what they are doing.

As for your question about the inverter overloading itself trying to support non-essential load - I can't speak from experience on that one.  I would assume it would NOT do that, but simply feed as much power as it is able to. But I am not certain.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Patrick OReilly said:

Hi @Lekud26

As for your question about the inverter overloading itself trying to support non-essential load - I can't speak from experience on that one.  I would assume it would NOT do that, but simply feed as much power as it is able to. But I am not certain.

 

 

As non essentials can only be fed when the grid is on this portion cannot cause the inverter to go into overload. The inverter will only feed as much as it can and if the non essential load is higher than what the PV via inverter can supply to non essential loads will be drawn from the grid so no tripping the inverter.

1 hour ago, Scorp007 said:

As non essentials can only be fed when the grid is on this portion cannot cause the inverter to go into overload. The inverter will only feed as much as it can and if the non essential load is higher than what the PV via inverter can supply to non essential loads will be drawn from the grid so no tripping the inverter.

I have seen the inverter use both PV and Battery to feed non-essential.  But it was not exceeding my inverter capacity (5.5kw), so I have not witnessed it limiting that. but I presume it would do - as you say.

When @Lekud26 saw it exceed capacity, that may be because the CT was not correctly installed, and so the Inverter could not distinguish between essential and non-essential correctly.

1 hour ago, Patrick OReilly said:

I have seen the inverter use both PV and Battery to feed non-essential.  But it was not exceeding my inverter capacity (5.5kw), so I have not witnessed it limiting that. but I presume it would do - as you say.

When @Lekud26 saw it exceed capacity, that may be because the CT was not correctly installed, and so the Inverter could not distinguish between essential and non-essential correctly.

Lets get the facts from users/installers but AFAIK the back up load as well as power fed to non essentials CAN exceed the 5kW/8kW but not to such an extend that it trips the inverter.

Also depending on settings PV and battery power can be used to non essentials while the grid is on.

@GreenFields  replied with the 3 conditions on 27 June earlier in this chat.

Edited August 2, 20232 yr by Scorp007

7 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

@GreenFields gave a good reply on this matter how to do the settings a week or so ago to prevent the battery from being discharged via non essentials.

I don't think that comment applies here though. Something I posted much longer ago, and I don't actually know how to properly solve this issue, is where solar PV to the non-essential loads is desired by day, but battery discharge at night is not. At least as I understand this thread, that's more like the same issue.

With some home automation possibly, that switches the work mode according to time of day, maybe someone has a proper solution, but that I am not familiar with.

My only half-baked workaround is to limit the power level from the battery at a time that I want to use the non-essential loads from the grid. For example, if I want to heat my geyser on a timer from 4am to 6am, with "Zero Export to CT" permanently activated, then in that time slot I could set the inverter power on the Time-of-Use screen to something low, approximately equal to my baseload, like 500W. 

I have a 5K Deye which have been working for 3 years+, I export to grid and from all apps I've used seen, the CT clamp appears to be installed at the correct place and i've never had issues interpreting the direction of exporting etc. 

Recently I installed a SolarAssistant to get more detailed measurements/graphs... but I'm quite puzzled by the "LOAD" graph. 

What is that exactly? Something doesn't make sense here!! Any advice? (The 3rd image = from Solarman, which displays correctly)

 

Edited September 20, 20232 yr by Atmosphere
added 3rd image

 

I have a 5K Deye which have been working for 3 years+, I export to grid and from all apps I've used seen, the CT clamp appears to be installed at the correct place and i've never had issues interpreting the direction of exporting etc. 

Recently I installed a SolarAssistant to get more detailed measurements/graphs... but I'm quite puzzled by the "LOAD" graph. 

What is that exactly? Something doesn't make sense here!! Any advice? (The 3rd image = from Solarman, which displays correctly)

 

 

It looks like your load is exceeding PV generation capacity,

So yellow is PV,
Blue is total load,
Red is the amount of that total load being serviced by the grid (due to insufficient PV to cover the full load)

 

Edited September 20, 20232 yr by JayMardern

 

It looks like your load is exceeding PV generation capacity,

So yellow is PV,
Blue is total load,
Red is the amount of that total load being serviced by the grid (due to insufficient PV to cover the full load)

 

Yes that's the problem... in reality i'm not exceeding it - there's nothing going on at the moment and the system is only exporting to the grid.  Here is my reading (which i know to be accurate) from www.deye-icloudpro.com

 

 

 

 

Yes that's the problem... in reality i'm not exceeding it - there's nothing going on at the moment and the system is only exporting to the grid.  Here is my reading (which i know to be accurate) from www.deye-icloudpro.com

 

 

 

Since the 'consumption' values are so different between the two: is it possible that the first graph might be including export-to-CT (ie, the whole house) whereas the second graph is only from the LOAD/UPS 'essentials' perspective?

 

Thus is it possible that an 'export' of 2.51kW in the second graph covers half the of the household non-essentials load (total including non-essentials 5kw) with the balance (including non-essentials: ie the remaining 2.5kW since the total load is 5kW) coming from grid to service the non-essentials balance that can't be covered by the CT export?

 

Could you post a picture of the inverter display homescreen?

Edited September 20, 20232 yr by JayMardern