Are the problems with Hubble repairs getting less and /or resolved sooner?

[Vaal]

Does the problems with Hubble batteries and their repair department now sorted or are the still a bit of a hit or miss? Tia

[TaliaB]

3 hours ago, Vaal said:

Does the problems with Hubble batteries and their repair department now sorted or are the still a bit of a hit or miss? Tia

 

[Deeos]

What is the expected turnaround?

My friend battery bms is faulty in year 3 which is not under warranty.  Had to pay for transportation from dbn to jhb 

They don't ask for all the information at once. It's week 3/4 and  no update 

This was the master battery in the pack

Another install 1 of 3 batteries goes on fault on startup.

System used as a ups for alarm and cctv so less than 3kw a day consumption.

Fault with the master battery.  Will be taking it out tomorrow.  

[Leshen]

 

What is the expected turnaround?

My friend battery bms is faulty in year 3 which is not under warranty.  Had to pay for transportation from dbn to jhb 

They don't ask for all the information at once. It's week 3/4 and  no update 

This was the master battery in the pack

Another install 1 of 3 batteries goes on fault on startup.

System used as a ups for alarm and cctv so less than 3kw a day consumption.

Fault with the master battery.  Will be taking it out tomorrow.  

Hubble are now starting to void warranties whenever they deem necessary. 
 

I was told that my installation never had a “fast acting” fuse yet it’s the same fuse that is used in all installations that most Solar suppliers sell. I apparently used a slow acting fuse so the battery “over currented” and it’s an installation problem. 
 

This was after 24 months of no issues. I will never touch another Hubble product as their employees have no technical knowledge and their warranties are not worth the paper it’s written on. That’s why they can state “unlimited cycles” on the AM5. It’s purely a marketing ploy as they never intend to honour that warranty. 

[Steve87]

Sorry to hear this Leshen. The Lithium battery space is looking narrow at the moment. Looks like Hubble are also dipping their toes in the HV battery market. These batteries are usually in the Hundreds of thousands of rands. Don't think I would trust them in HV based on their poor show in your experience with them. 

I have also written off a local supplier that sells the Seplos battery quite a while ago for the same reasons. There is a direct feeling that they are trying their best to not entertain any warranty & repair. 

Out of interest what does Hubble want to charge to fix the battery outside of warranty? Can a new BMS be fitted or what exactly is the problem? I think repairing Lithium batteries & supporting the warrantyless batteries in this market is going to really take pace because of poor business ethics like these guys have. 

Depending on the issue, pretty sure the battery can be repaired. Usually a cell or a BMS needs to be replaced. Bunch of bandits!!!

Looks like their BMS is rubbish also just like Pylontech. If a BMS cannot stop an overcurrent or Over voltage then it's not a decent BMS. It's a bloody inferior part chosen to do a key job it's not able to do. Then they blame a stupid R50 fuse & you sit with a hole in your pocket & a very upset customer. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Steve87

[Leshen]

 

Sorry to hear this Leshen. The Lithium battery space is looking narrow at the moment. Looks like Hubble are also dipping their toes in the HV battery market. These batteries are usually in the Hundreds of thousands of rands. Don't think I would trust them in HV based on their poor show in your experience with them. 

I have also written off a local supplier that sells the Seplos battery quite a while ago for the same reasons. There is a direct feeling that they are trying their best to not entertain any warranty & repair. 

Out of interest what does Hubble want to charge to fix the battery outside of warranty? Can a new BMS be fitted or what exactly is the problem? I think repairing Lithium batteries & supporting the warrantyless batteries in this market is going to really take pace because of poor business ethics like these guys have. 

Depending on the issue, pretty sure the battery can be repaired. Usually a cell or a BMS needs to be replaced. Bunch of bandits!!!

Looks like their BMS is rubbish also just like Pylontech. If a BMS cannot stop an overcurrent or Over voltage then it's not a decent BMS. It's a bloody inferior part chosen to do a key job it's not able to do. Then they blame a stupid R50 fuse & you sit with a hole in your pocket & a very upset customer. 

Initially battery 1 had a cell issue so I removed it and took it to Hubble and they replaced the cell. That took over a month. 
 

After installing the battery, the client said that that there seems to be an issue with the other battery. 
 

So I removed the second AM2 and took it to Hubble and then they claimed that the battery had 2 damaged cells due to multiple over currents. I showed them the log from SOLARMAN which they didn’t care about. I handed them the COC, which they asked for and still no interest. Now they want a PV Greencard certificate to which I said it’s not needed. 
 

After threatening to report them to the Consumer Protection Tribunal, they removed the labour part of the charge but said that they will deal directly with the client and will get a “reputable” installer to install the battery. 
 

Its R690 per cell ex vat plus an assessment fee of R690. 
 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Leshen

[Steve87]

What an ignorant & arrogant attitude they have...The PV green card & P4 are good initiatives but establish absolutely nothing about an installation or installer. For me as an installer the warranty & RMA of any product is the most important aspect for me. Because yes a customer may have a Hubble or whatever in their home & offer zero issues but an installers we are exposed to large numbers of units & therefore the laws of probability say we will reach a said problem at some point. How that supplier deals with the RMA is the ultimate challenge for us.

I'm sorry Hubble, a poor show & hopefully that attitude changes before it's too late.

[P1000]

 

2 damaged cells due to multiple over currents.

That's not supposed to be possible unless their BMS (PACE) is faulty or misconfigured. Can you ask them for the BMS logs?

The BMS can react orders of magnitude faster than the fastest fuse so their claim of a wrong fuse is obviously a BS cop-out.

Edited September 19, 2023 by P1000

[Leshen]

 

That's not supposed to be possible unless their BMS (PACE) is faulty or misconfigured. Can you ask them for the BMS logs?

Have a look. The BMS reported 145A and that’s with 2 x AM2. 
 

Then they spoke about daisy chaining which still doesn’t make sense to me. 
 

You will also notice that it’s the charging that is at 145A not discharging so what I think is happening is that when the cells become damaged for whatever reason they can’t regulate the current within the pack to charge them correctly.

HL2106000122 #4266.xls

Edited September 19, 2023 by Leshen

[P1000]

I see where that happens. It is clear that there was a serious cell imbalance problem long before that event, in fact, it's evident from the start of the log. It was the cell imbalance that caused this BMS to disconnect at entry 187, then reconnect at 186 and it seems like the reconnect event caused too much current to flow (because the cell voltages recovered somewhat and the other battery continued discharging). So the origin of the problem was a bad cell.

Edited September 19, 2023 by P1000

[Steve87]

Line 39 suggests a Cell delta of 0.7V. That is insane for Lithium chemistry. No pack can be healthy with such a delta, let's not forget that this is Li-ion chemistry not LFP. So the Voltage of the cells is much more linear than a flat LFP curve. There was a problem way before the current events...The logs prove that fact. 

So what they do by dealing with the customer direct is pull you out of the equation & discredit you & then apply a plaster to hide the fact of a poorly assembled battery. I will bet good money this issue will surface again even with you out of the equation. 

I guess your hands are tied. 

[P1000]

 

Line 39 suggests a Cell delta of 0.7V.

The first line is the most recent entry, with the oldest at the bottom (entry 400). Cell 1 is already 560mV lower than the max. Later you can see that cell 1 also causes Cell overvolt protection to kick in, so that cell is definitely very sick. It looks like that is what causes cell 13 to also present problems later. It's also cell 1 that causes a capacity reset to 48Ah at line 288.

BTW, I don't think this is the complete log, AFAIK most PACE configs hold 2000 entries, but this could very well be different on Hubble's firmware. But a healthy battery does not have this many log entries...

Edited September 19, 2023 by P1000

[Nexuss]

That battery was in a VERY bad state . By the looks of it they dont have the BMS configured correctly at all or the cells they are using are just bad and not IR matched.

[Leshen]

 

I see where that happens. It is clear that there was a serious cell imbalance problem long before that event, in fact, it's evident from the start of the log. It was the cell imbalance that caused this BMS to disconnect at entry 187, then reconnect at 186 and it seems like the reconnect event caused too much current to flow (because the cell voltages recovered somewhat and the other battery continued discharging). So the origin of the problem was a bad cell.

I tried explaining that to them but they insist it’s the installation ie a slow acting fuse that’s the problem. 
 

This is what he said about daisy chaining. 
 

Battery one connects to inverter via positive then daisy connects to batt 2 via DC Pos Neg then batt 2 goes neg to inverter 

 

Hope that Makes sence.

[Leshen]

 

That battery was in a VERY bad state . By the looks of it they dont have the BMS configured correctly at all or the cells they are using are just bad and not IR matched.

I suspect they swap cells from second hand batteries 

[P1000]

 

This is what he said about daisy chaining. 
 

Battery one connects to inverter via positive then daisy connects to batt 2 via DC Pos Neg then batt 2 goes neg to inverter 

 

Hope that Makes sence.

Yeah, that's nonsense. What I think they mean is that positive from one battery and negative from the other (to the inverter). But that is clearly not relevant according to the logs.

[P1000]

 

That battery was in a VERY bad state . By the looks of it they dont have the BMS configured correctly at all or the cells they are using are just bad and not IR matched.

Cell 1 going both OV and UV means that it is buggered. You can't balance that out.

[Steve87]

 

Battery one connects to inverter via positive then daisy connects to batt 2 via DC Pos Neg then batt 2 goes neg to inverter 

 

Hope that Makes sence.

Ok that makes sense, but how is it wired to the inverter? Like how he says or does it go Batt 1 + & - to inverter then Batt 2 connects to Batt 1??

[Nexuss]

 

Cell 1 going both OV and UV means that it is buggered. You can't balance that out.

Yea this is why its so important to monitor the cells in your packs every now and then (atleast) IMO just to make sure they are balanced ,i dont care what brand/BMS it is they all can have their issues. Having an early warning to a cell doing its own thing can save you lots of hassles down the line. 

On a side note that log proves that it wasn't installer error , they are bargaining on you not being able to read/interpret it to get out of the warranty .  

Edited September 19, 2023 by Nexuss

[Leshen]

 

Ok that makes sense, but how is it wired to the inverter? Like how he says or does it go Batt 1 + & - to inverter then Batt 2 connects to Batt 1??

It’s connected as in Diagram 1 

 

 

[Leshen]

 

Yea this is why its so important to monitor the cells in your packs every now and then (atleast) IMO just to make sure they are balanced ,i dont care what brand/BMS it is they all can have their issues. Having an early warning to a cell doing its own thing can save you lots of hassles down the line. 

On a side note that log proves that it wasn't installer error , they are bargaining on you not being able to read/interpret it to get out of the warranty .  

I must admit, I’m not an expert on understanding those logs so maybe I need to get an independent review. 

[Leshen]

 

It’s connected as in Diagram 1 

 

 

Is Diagram 1 daisy chained?

[Steve87]

If you have connected them as the diagram then absolutely no issues at all. The guys at Hubble trying to discredit you & the Install to refute the warranty. Bottom line they need to replace the cells & then get the battery back in service. In my opinion they can't choose who they deal with. PV green card or not, you are a customer the same as your client we are here to uphold standards in an installation that is all you are doing. The battery has a weak point they need to repair that week point as they are the OEM. If they need you to be PV Green card accredited they need to provide you the warranty document that states that & also that a customer needs this for any claim. It's absolutely rubbish. 

I'm in for the fight with such crappy suppliers. They must wake up or ship out...

[Steve87]

 

Is Diagram 1 daisy chained?

Yes all the batteries share the current. No difference in diagram 1 or 2. Common + & - bus for the entire pack. Current will be shared across each battery in the group. 

[Leshen]

 

Yes all the batteries share the current. No difference in diagram 1 or 2. Common + & - bus for the entire pack. Current will be shared across each battery in the group. 

Look at this response which shows how ignorant they are. 
 

Hi Leshen

 

Just to clarify, you have installed 2 batteries that are exposed to a cable that potentially can be energised up to 160A. You do know that each battery is only rated to a maximum charge/discharge current of 100 Amps?

 

I have attached the BMS log as requested.

 

I stand by my initial email that the warranty is void, once again refer to our warranty document attached, specifically item #12.

 

You are welcome to take any measures that you see fit.