Hi guys,

After initially sourcing our own components and getting a "sparky" who claimed to have many years of experience and certifications ("PV4 AREP") in solar, we started down this rabbit hole with:

• 1 x 8kW Sunsynk Inverter
• 10 x 460W JA Mono Solar Panels (installed onto our north facing tiled roof)
• 2 x WM5000 (4.95kWh; 1.5C) Greenrich batteries

All worked ok but soon we realised that we needed more PV and more batteries and after doing research about our existing install, I started to question the initial installer about his work. Some issues that I picked up were:

• According to him, you can put AC and DC cables in the same trunking, as long as the AC cable is surfix, it's shielded so it's ok 🤔
• No indicator lights in the AC combiner box needed as there are indicator lights on the inverter

At this point we'd already had a north facing galvanised frame designed & installed next to our existing array and purchased an additional 10 x 460W JA Mono Solar Panels and 1 x additional Greenrich WM5000. We did a self install of the panels which was fun (despite the Mrs complaining about all the time on the roof) and mounted the battery.

Once the panels were installed, I decided that it was time get hold of the legendary @Steve87 who not only gave me guidance in terms of my self install (earthing, frame spacing etc) but also came past to inspect and quote to fix the existing install & commission the new bits of kit. Amongst some of the issues he found were:

• The items listed above
• 6mm wire used instead of 10 on the AC side (DB to inverter)
• Different battery cable lengths and super dodgy cable used
• Max charge rate of batteries set to 40A
• Steve feel free to add more issues found here 🤣:
• ______________________________________
• ______________________________________

The system looks like this at the moment:

• 1 x 8kW Sunsynk Inverter
• 20 x 460W JA Mono Solar Panels (5s2p Mppt 1 and 5s2p Mppt 2 total 9200 watts 21.84A/Mppt) with 30A fuses
• 3 x WM5000 (4.95kWh; 1.5C) Greenrich batteries

After a perfect day in JHB, it's evident that we have gone overboard on the PV, so wondering if I should start solar pooling with my neighbours or installing more geysers 😝

Next (and hopefully the last) phase is more battery storage... convincing the Mrs could take some time but I'm onto it!

Safety of the whole system has always been my most important requirement and knowing that Steve has fixed, commissioned and optimised the system has put my mind at ease - I cannot thank you enough!

And finally time for some pics:

Was a pleasure to assist. Must say that the Steel structure that was fabricated is an absolute work of art. That guy deserves all the credit he can get that created it.

Glad all is sorted & safe. Unfortunately it's always the case. So many installers that want the sausage factory Installation. 1 day installation. I'm sorry to admit I can't do that. 1 day is not enough for me. Attention to detail & constantly thinking what works best is always in my thoughts. 

Also got to congratulate you for your own attention to detail & for getting the hard work of installing the solar panels yourself. If like many guys you haven't done it before id say give it a bash. It will give you heaps of confidence in your solar PV Array wiring etc. 

Well done again, awesome system you have there !!!

Thanks for reminding me, Mike Cronje of The Cottage Project designed, fabricated and installed the structure.

His details are:

+27 61 002 7678 / [email protected]

Just an update on our production:

System commissioned on 04/10/23 - the few bad days of weather in Gauteng were brutal and messed my graphs 🫠

(Past 31 days)

Monthly production:

• All geysers have also been moved onto essential side
• Found that our outdoor fridge and freezers (on another phase) are making Eskom $$ so these are also going to be moved onto the non essential side - should save an additional 3kWh per day.

Still super super chuffed with how things are working!

Feel your pain @Muttley am off-grid 90% of the time and have more power than I can use, is just those three days a month.

Seems crazy to get more panels to just get through those three days when I can just run of the grid

8 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

Feel your pain @Muttley am off-grid 90% of the time and have more power than I can use, is just those three days a month.

Seems crazy to get more panels to just get through those three days when I can just run of the grid

My old view is even if you double your panels for those few days you still end up with a shortfall. Cannot waste capital for such few days a year. 

Interesting stats and graphs. What are you using the most for your grid import? Winter sees a need to warm up the house, what's your plan or what are you using? When you first mentioned the 10 x 460w solar panels, I new it was indeed a "rabbit hole" of more panels and more batteries... Are your panels experiencing some or any shading or it's just a reflection? 

Edited November 12, 20232 yr by Moffat
Additional question...

4 minutes ago, Moffat said:

Interesting stats and graphs. What are you using the most for your grid import? Winter sees a need to warm up the house, what's your plan or what are you using? When you first mentioned the 10 x 460w solar panels, I new it was indeed a "rabbit hole" of more panels and more batteries... Are your panels experiencing some or any shading or it's just a reflection? 

Thanks for the message and question.

Certain family members insist of having a hot shower at 06:00 so the 1 geyser which a 4Kw element switches on from 04:00 - 06:00...

Regarding the shading - there's none, though our poor palm tree had a proper haircut when the initial 10 panels went up but it's growing back quite quickly - will need to trim it again for winter.

2 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

My old view is even if you double your panels for those few days you still end up with a shortfall. Cannot waste capital for such few days a year. 

Agree 100% @Scorp007, the return for more panels would be so small as the number of days that they would be required would be minimal and even then they would still not deliver enough power for all eventualities would still need a generator that they are really not worth it. I am on prepaid so would rather just use the grid for the few days that I need and am on CityPower so there is no connection fee. 

If they start charging a monthly connection fee then things might change but it is relatively easy to do the calculations and work out whether I should stay on the grid or run a generator for the 3-4 days a month when required. 

According to my calcs, my generator uses +- 0.9 ltr of fuel to generate 1kw/hr of power (small petrol generator). 

 

3 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Thanks for the message and question.

Certain family members insist of having a hot shower at 06:00 so the 1 geyser which a 4Kw element switches on from 04:00 - 06:00...

Regarding the shading - there's none, though our poor palm tree had a proper haircut when the initial 10 panels went up but it's growing back quite quickly - will need to trim it again for winter.

"Certain family members" were not named to protect the convicts hehehehehe. I hear you. I've been looking at the 5kva system but realizing that consumption in winter is likely to go up and 5kva may not be enough, but cost of adding panels and batteries plus limited roof space is a pest, not to mention the "rabbit hole" of down the road utilities coming in with a change in regulations... are you ironing off your solar production as well as using a washing machine, by any chance? I've noticed now when am looking at appliances am now looking more and more at how much they draw and their efficiency and lot of items are very scant on information.

4 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Thanks for the message and question.

Certain family members insist of having a hot shower at 06:00 so the 1 geyser which a 4Kw element switches on from 04:00 - 06:00...

Regarding the shading - there's none, though our poor palm tree had a proper haircut when the initial 10 panels went up but it's growing back quite quickly - will need to trim it again for winter.

That geyser in the morning is a killer, the standing loss on a geyser, according to SABS specs, should be no more than 10C in a 24hr period.

If you heat your geyser up to 65C it should be not colder than 55C after 24hrs if no water is drawn from it.  

That should be ok for a shower in the morning as long as your geyser isn't leaking heat from anywhere. 

Maybe see if you can't get a Flir camera from somewhere and check your geyser for heat leaks. I found that I was loosing a lot of heat through where my pipes connected to my geyser and from a weird patch of uninsulated steel on one side. 

 

  

6 minutes ago, Sc00bs said:

Agree 100% @Scorp007, the return for more panels would be so small as the number of days that they would be required would be minimal and even then they would still not deliver enough power for all eventualities would still need a generator that they are really not worth it. I am on prepaid so would rather just use the grid for the few days that I need and am on CityPower so there is no connection fee. 

If they start charging a monthly connection fee then things might change but it is relatively easy to do the calculations and work out whether I should stay on the grid or run a generator for the 3-4 days a month when required. 

According to my calcs, my generator uses +- 0.9 ltr of fuel to generate 1kw/hr of power (small petrol generator). 

 

At least you guys in SA are not on "Mandatory" buying of fuel blended with ethanol as we guys here in Zimbabwe, which makes a generator become more inefficient or needing more servicing.

17 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Thanks for the message and question.

Certain family members insist of having a hot shower at 06:00 so the 1 geyser which a 4Kw element switches on from 04:00 - 06:00...

Regarding the shading - there's none, though our poor palm tree had a proper haircut when the initial 10 panels went up but it's growing back quite quickly - will need to trim it again for winter.

...by the way, what app are you using to generate these graphs and stats? Saw a video on here where the Sunsynk app has to go through the cloud first meaning you also have to pay for Wifi and he had come up with plan to get stats from inverter direct to a PC or was it a Raspberry PI, can't remember now. I feel that would be a good way to go in case wifi got expensive or was down... your thoughts on this or anyone? I also still worry about hackers shutting down the inverters or regulation coming in whereby if you're grid-tied, the regulators may require the inverter to have an option to be shutdown by the utility company as happens in some parts of Australia. The more I can get "off-grid" or independent of these blood suckers, the better.

Edited November 12, 20232 yr by Moffat

4 minutes ago, Moffat said:

"Certain family members" were not named to protect the convicts hehehehehe. I hear you. I've been looking at the 5kva system but realizing that consumption in winter is likely to go up and 5kva may not be enough, but cost of adding panels and batteries plus limited roof space is a pest, not to mention the "rabbit hole" of down the road utilities coming in with a change in regulations... are you ironing off your solar production as well as using a washing machine, by any chance? I've noticed now when am looking at appliances am now looking more and more at how much they draw and their efficiency and lot of items are very scant on information.

Basically the whole house (minus the oven, electric stove and outside fridges (soon to be added to non essential side) are on the inverter - really have to be careful when the inverter goes into islanding mode during load shedding as I've overloaded it a few times.

I've spent a bit of well spent $$ of Tuya smart plugs to get insight into what devices are drawing and made an effort to turn these off during the evenings (Jojo tank pump etc). Also realised that the outside fridges mentioned above are using 3kWh per day with a smart plus educating the fam about turning lights off... it's a challenge but I'm enjoying it!

 

7 minutes ago, Sc00bs said:

That geyser in the morning is a killer, the standing loss on a geyser, according to SABS specs, should be no more than 10C in a 24hr period.

If you heat your geyser up to 65C it should be not colder than 55C after 24hrs if no water is drawn from it.  

That should be ok for a shower in the morning as long as your geyser isn't leaking heat from anywhere. 

Maybe see if you can't get a Flir camera from somewhere and check your geyser for heat leaks. I found that I was loosing a lot of heat through where my pipes connected to my geyser and from a weird patch of uninsulated steel on one side. 

 

  

Thanks @Sc00bs

There's no leaks... certain members bath in the evening, every evening... It's a real battle I tell you 🤣

7 minutes ago, Moffat said:

At least you guys in SA are not on "Mandatory" buying of fuel blended with ethanol as we guys here in Zimbabwe, which makes a generator become more inefficient or needing more servicing.

Back to your geyser. I assume you have a 200L geyser. In that case you don't need a full 2hrs to get the water to 43 degrees in the morning. More like 1hr.

2 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Basically the whole house (minus the oven, electric stove and outside fridges (soon to be added to non essential side) are on the inverter - really have to be careful when the inverter goes into islanding mode during load shedding as I've overloaded it a few times.

I've spent a bit of well spent $$ of Tuya smart plugs to get insight into what devices are drawing and made an effort to turn these off during the evenings (Jojo tank pump etc). Also realised that the outside fridges mentioned above are using 3kWh per day with a smart plus educating the fam about turning lights off... it's a challenge but I'm enjoying it!

 

Indeed here comes the kicker of this being a rabbit hole... am sure the Missus wants to back or grill so you have to keep the stove. Consider and induction cooktop, which is what I have invested in, though unfortunately they don't come with ovens or going 50% gas-50% electricity on the stove, which unfortunately means investing in new devices... and the rabbit hole continues...

4 minutes ago, Moffat said:

...by the way, what app are you using to generate these graphs and stats? Saw a video on here where the Sunsynk app has to go through the cloud first meaning you also have to pay for Wifi and he had come up with plan to get stats from inverter direct to a PC or was it a Raspberry PI, can't remember now. I feel that would be a good way to go in case wifi got expensive or was down... your thoughts on this or anyone? I also still worry about hackers shutting down the inverters or regulation coming in whereby if you're grid-tied, the regulators may require the inverter to have an option to be shutdown by the utility company as happens in some parts of Australia. The more I can get "off-grid" or independent of these blood suckers, the better.

All from this Forum, running in Home Assistant - see here

and vids from @Sc00bs

and then:

 

3 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

Back to your geyser. I assume you have a 200L geyser. In that case you don't need a full 2hrs to get the water to 43 degrees in the morning. More like 1hr.

I have a 200L Solar geyser but in winter it's a struggle as the very cold nights mean I need grid power to get it up to about 50degrees to have a decent bath after "some members of the family" have enjoyed their bath.

2 minutes ago, Muttley said:

All from this Forum, running in Home Assistant - see here

and vids from @Sc00bs

and then:

 

That's exactly the video I saw. Would've been great to have this guy in Zim and also have integration using a Mac.

Edited November 12, 20232 yr by Moffat

1 minute ago, Moffat said:

That's exactly the video I saw. Would've been great to have this guy in Zim.

I'm sure @Sc00bs will come visit if you offer him enough beers 🤪

3 minutes ago, Muttley said:

I'm sure @Sc00bs will come visit if you offer him enough beers 🤪

Let me organise to rent the brewery🤣😂 apart from getting myself organised with upgrading my system. I have a 0.5hp water pump which runs all day as we have water shortages so have to rely on my 5000litre tank for water for the loo, laundry and most other household stuff so that's my biggest consumer so just thinking about that having to run almost 12-18hrs daily means 5kva may not be enough...

3 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

Agree 100% @Scorp007, the return for more panels would be so small as the number of days that they would be required would be minimal and even then they would still not deliver enough power for all eventualities would still need a generator that they are really not worth it. I am on prepaid so would rather just use the grid for the few days that I need and am on CityPower so there is no connection fee. 

@Muttley If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, consider a heat pump for at least one geyser - the one that runs early in the morning. I like an early morning shower. This time of year the pump runs 40 minutes max (it won't go past 60 degrees) and the total draw (pump plus whatever else is running) does not exceed 2k. So you take less out of the battery. Maybe this is a better spend for you. 

Edited November 12, 20232 yr by Bobster.
Add tag for Muttley

6 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

@Muttley If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, consider a heat pump for at least one geyser - the one that runs early in the morning. I like an early morning shower. This time of year the pump runs 40 minutes max (it won't go past 60 degrees) and the total draw (pump plus whatever else is running) does not exceed 2k. So you take less out of the battery. Maybe this is a better spend for you. 

Very interesting suggestion - thanks so much!

Will look into it

2 more batteries added to the mix:

(Thanks to @Steve87)

Next job is a heat pump for 2 of our geysers - the poor 8kW Sunsynk is not handling the daily load.

This plus the lower PV generation during winter means that with the 2 x extra batteries and producing +- 40-45kWh per day, we're way short!