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Saving on electricity after solar installation

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21 minutes ago, chrisc said:

What I'd like to know is how to get these graphs and data from the inverter

I'm using a Kodak OG7.2 and the book describes how to connect.  This fails when scanning the 14-digit number as it is not recognised, either inserting manually or scanning the code

Btw:  My first system (now much extended) was fitted in 2015.   Over the years there has been a substantial decrease in electricity units used.  In summer we are down to 10 units a day.   So I'd say its working fine, apart from no blackouts

In my case over and above the fact that since installation never been without power, just over two years now, the cherry on the cake is the tremendous savings, my average daily grid consumption has been around 5 Kw and 15 Kw from solar 2 X 5 KVA Growatt inverters, 12 Csun 410 W panels, 6 panels in serries to each inverter. See dashboard last 6 months. Dotted line represents overcast days. 

image.thumb.png.c2db1f9257e5c5cc829c62317d1a72a2.png

Edited by Antonio de Sa

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  • Several points in no particular order: How long ago did you get solar installed? Electricity billing is typically 30 to 60 days in arrears, so you wouldn't see an instant change on your bill.

  • Guys, thankyou so much for all this info.  I have changed some settings and boiled the kettle twice this afternoon - plenty of sunshine - and did not use the grid. I also reset menu items 12 to 46v an

  • WannabeSolarSparky
    WannabeSolarSparky

    As mentioned by a few members already, try getting some data, that will go a long way to start visually understanding your solar setup. Check your inverter, most today have some sort of data logging

Posted Images

just installed and commissioned our system…will check over next six weeks- generating 50-90kwh a day- so should see a difference in a month..tryibg to limit eskom to the cheap 600kwh and less a month 

On 2023/10/21 at 11:03 AM, Antonio de Sa said:

In my case over and above the fact that since installation never been without power, just over two years now, the cherry on the cake is the tremendous savings, my average daily grid consumption has been around 5 Kw and 15 Kw from solar 2 X 5 KVA Growatt inverters, 12 Csun 410 W panels, 6 panels in serries to each inverter. See dashboard last 6 months. Dotted line represents overcast days. 

image.thumb.png.c2db1f9257e5c5cc829c62317d1a72a2.png

Thanks for a great graphic. No clouding with every stat but the essential data. 😀😀

On 2023/10/19 at 9:17 AM, Bobster. said:

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this.

I'm reluctant. I have a 4.6 kW inverter, and this is surprisingly easy to overload. One of the reasons I've had the heat pump on a timer is that this creates a time slot in the morning in which appliances can be used without us having to worry about the heat pump (which is backed up) running at the same time. And it creates another slot in the afternoon which I can use to heat the guest geyser using solar.

I also don't want to have it running at night, or not yet, because it will draw from the batteries.

But I have set it so that it turns on at 6:00 and will be left on until 15:00. We'll see how that goes.

I don't know if we'll get anything conclusive. There's only two of us, so not a lot of showering going on (keep your smart remarks to yourself). We run the washing machine on a cold cycle. Etc. Plus we have a lot of insulation on the main geyser and the hot pipes are lagged.

So here's what happened.

I used to have two programs on the heat pump timer: 6:15 to 7:00 and 12:00 to 14:30.

I changed this to be 6:15 to 14:30.

It didn't seem to make a big difference in terms of power consumption. What it DID do was the thing I alluded to above: It removed the "safe window" from 7:00 to 12:00 during which we could run washing machines and especially the dishwasher and know that an overload of the inverter was unlikely.

We got very close to that overload condition a couple of days ago. The dishwasher was started a little later than usal, the heat pump compressor kicked in a bit earlier than usual. Oops. Look at that graph shoot up!

We had had no problems with cold showers. I use very little water when I shower in the morning, and during the day the water never got under 50 degrees. With the midday run, the water was always warm enough for the wife's evening shower. 

So I was not using a significantly different amount of free power, I had lost that safe window which I have browbeaten people into using for the washing up appliances and the dreaded toaster+kettle combination.

So I can't give an opinion on the power savings. I'm not going to run the heatpump overnight because our routines don't require it, and because it will mean an extra draw from the battery. So I was steered by our routines and the little rules we've learned to live by.

So this morning I switched back to the scenario that gives me that nice window in the morning. If I didn't have solar, if I were relying solely on grid, I may have experimented for longer and may have got a verdict (though outages tend to mess with the timer's clock, so who knows?)

Edited by Bobster.
Correct gibberish

@raatkirani Did you come right?

 

I did not read through the entire thread but with some changes you should certainly be seeing some savings, if you do not have much running during the day when the sun is shining then consider having the geyser moved over to the inverter and run the geyser on a timer during the day so that it heats the water during the day - I have done this and my geyser runs from 10.30am to 2.30pm and heats the water to 70C, this is hot enough for my GF and I to shower in the evening & morning.

So far my geyser has used a total of 144kWh for the month of October, my geyser is outside on top of my roof so also exposed to the elements. I do have a geyser blanket on it though.

Doing this alone will save you a bit each month. You do not have a lot of panels, so that will affect the amount of savings you get but with that being said if your loads are small / low during the day then the amount of panels you have may be sufficient for your needs. If you run a lot in the evening then savings would be minimal unless you make use of your battery and then recharge the battery during the day - this can be a bit limiting with a smaller battery though.

 

Settings would depend on your needs, however make sure that PV&AC Take Load Jointly is enabled.

image.png.e38f0f0ba202383dfff2597b7cef28c2.png

On 2023/10/09 at 10:04 AM, raatkirani said:

Hi All

Hope you are well. I had a question. How do you know if we are saving once solar is installed. I am not seeing changes on my electricity bill. My geyser is still on eskon but I have installed a timer to control when my geyser is switched on and switched off.
I have a 5kva inverter and 4.8kva battery. I run the house on solar during the day (switching back to eskom when using high wattage appliances like an iron or running multiple appliances at once when need to).

 

Kind regards

Deepa

You need to measure and record the municipal meter and the house consumption.

Monthly I record the CoJ Pre-Paid meter and the total house consumption using a Hiking DDS238-2 meter.
The Hiking DDS238-2 measures the consumption after the inverter.
Instead of the Hiking DDS238-2 you can extract the consumption data from your inverter.
I use Excel to record:
image.thumb.png.79e41ad68882a13878b7ee62fcd63216.png

Purple = CoJ Meter consumption kWh
Green = DDS238-2 Meter (Total House Consumption) kWh
Blue =  Self Solar = House_Total-CoJ Meter. i.e. difference between CoJ and Total house consumption. This is what comes from the Sun aka SELF generated.
 

 

Edited by system32

I have a similar problem but been doing some investigation and noting of events.  I live in a retirement complex.

What I have installed:

  • I have solar hot water heater.
  • I have a gas stove and oven.
  • Sunicom M5000h-48 48VDC Inverter 
  • 4.8KWH 48volt Deichmann Lithium-ion battery YLR48100.
  • 6 * 550 watt solar panels on the roof facing north
  • I live in Pretoria
  • All globes are LED and total wattage is 95watt.
  • I have two fridges - both inverter - and 1 deep freeze, rated A+
  • TV, Computers and other small non element items.
  • Backup grid electricity for the geyser is not wired thru the inverter.

What I have noticed.

When ever I turn on my electric kettle - 1600watt - the inverter switches  to use grid electricity.  This even happens mid day, cloud less sky an temp of 31C

About two weeks ago we had a power outage at the retirement village.  It started at 10H00 the Friday morning and power was restored at 15H30 on the Saturday afternoon. 29h30min of no power.  I only was aware of the power outage on Friday night when I went to check that all doors locked etc. and saw no street lights were on.  During the time of the power outage I used the TV extensively, probably 10 hours, boiled the kettle 5 times but used the gas stove to boil water after I realized that there was no grid power; used the micro wave 900watt for probably 15 minutes in total. My fridges were also on, Internet modem etc.  During the daylight hours there was full sun and the temperature in the high twenties and low thirties. Both my wife and I had a hot shower on Friday night, which can only have been hot water from the solar hot water system.

With the power outage, due to the prevailing circumstances, it has proved to me that the inverter and battery can handle my electricity needs without grid power backup.  

I can only think that there are settings in the inverter and/or battery that have been set incorrectly.  I would like these settings to be that Grid power is only used whjen the battery level reaches a certain level of discharge, whatever is recommended.  Having said all of that the installer of the hot water and solar power was a qualified electrician. 

Any advice would be welcome. 

1 hour ago, RookieRod said:

I have a similar problem but been doing some investigation and noting of events.  I live in a retirement complex.

What I have installed:

  • I have solar hot water heater.
  • I have a gas stove and oven.
  • Sunicom M5000h-48 48VDC Inverter 
  • 4.8KWH 48volt Deichmann Lithium-ion battery YLR48100.
  • 6 * 550 watt solar panels on the roof facing north
  • I live in Pretoria
  • All globes are LED and total wattage is 95watt.
  • I have two fridges - both inverter - and 1 deep freeze, rated A+
  • TV, Computers and other small non element items.
  • Backup grid electricity for the geyser is not wired thru the inverter.

What I have noticed.

When ever I turn on my electric kettle - 1600watt - the inverter switches  to use grid electricity.  This even happens mid day, cloud less sky an temp of 31C

About two weeks ago we had a power outage at the retirement village.  It started at 10H00 the Friday morning and power was restored at 15H30 on the Saturday afternoon. 29h30min of no power.  I only was aware of the power outage on Friday night when I went to check that all doors locked etc. and saw no street lights were on.  During the time of the power outage I used the TV extensively, probably 10 hours, boiled the kettle 5 times but used the gas stove to boil water after I realized that there was no grid power; used the micro wave 900watt for probably 15 minutes in total. My fridges were also on, Internet modem etc.  During the daylight hours there was full sun and the temperature in the high twenties and low thirties. Both my wife and I had a hot shower on Friday night, which can only have been hot water from the solar hot water system.

With the power outage, due to the prevailing circumstances, it has proved to me that the inverter and battery can handle my electricity needs without grid power backup.  

I can only think that there are settings in the inverter and/or battery that have been set incorrectly.  I would like these settings to be that Grid power is only used whjen the battery level reaches a certain level of discharge, whatever is recommended.  Having said all of that the installer of the hot water and solar power was a qualified electrician. 

Any advice would be welcome. 

Can you share some of your settings? 

Edited by Scorp007

36 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

Can you share some of your settings? 

I will gladly, but how do I get them?  I am both born in the wrong era and technically challenged.

3 hours ago, RookieRod said:

When ever I turn on my electric kettle - 1600watt - the inverter switches  to use grid electricity.  This even happens mid day, cloud less sky an temp of 31C

Is this momentary, or does the system draw from grid as long as the kettle is heating water?

It's noteworthy that your system can support the kettle when there's no grid. So clearly the inverter is making a decision to use the grid instead of the battery. 

Does this happen (using grid instead of battery) when the battery is fully charged?

Some systems can be set to allow battery discharge to different levels depending if there is or is not grid. My system will not discharge between 40% remaining if there is grid. Without grid it will discharge to 10% remainining.

A friend of mine has chosen to set his to never discharge past 80% remaining whilst there is grid. He chose to do this because he has a lot more after hours load than I do and wants to know he always has enough battery in hand when there's an outage. We will all make these decisions differently according to our needs and the capabilities of our system,

So this is an area I would look at if I were you. This assumes that you have some way of being able to access these settings and being able to see what the SOC is.

1 hour ago, RookieRod said:

I will gladly, but how do I get them?  I am both born in the wrong era and technically challenged.

Post us a pic of the display as I cannot get any info on this make via Google. 

I seem to loose my way on the site.  Answers as follows:

 

Bobster:

Is this momentary, or does the system draw from grid as long as the kettle is heating water? 

Always on while the kettle is on or any other element appliance

It's noteworthy that your system can support the kettle when there's no grid. So clearly the inverter is making a decision to use the grid instead of the battery. 

Agree

Does this happen (using grid instead of battery) when the battery is fully charged? 

Yes it does.

Some systems can be set to allow battery discharge to different levels depending if there is or is not grid. My system will not discharge between 40% remaining if there is grid. Without grid it will discharge to 10% remainining.  

I would like something similar.  I also have a 3kw Honda Silent Generator that is not yet coupled.

A friend of mine has chosen to set his to never discharge past 80% remaining whilst there is grid. He chose to do this because he has a lot more after hours load than I do and wants to know he always has enough battery in hand when there's an outage. We will all make these decisions differently according to our needs and the capabilities of our system, 

Not really thought about this clearly, but will do so and would welcome suggestions. 

So this is an area I would look at if I were you. This assumes that you have some way of being able to access these settings and being able to see what the SOC is

 

Scorp007

Post us a pic of the display as I cannot get any info on this make via Google. 

                I looked around on the inverter and found a part number P/NSKSL00.0015200.  Then googled the part number.  Came up with a German socket wrench – Wrong road.  Also Growatt (Ginverter).  Went to the web site Ginverter.com.  Played around a lot, landed up at Warranty and entered the serial number (JUL0CJG0EQ  Found that they are zeros not “Ohh”)  Entered the serial number and found the product Model is “SunicornM5000H-45 48VDC  230VAC Blue PAR 145VV (Tpt29555)   See the attached File   Did I mention I was a forensic auditor?

 

My Comments

I firmly believe that I have been had by an unscrupulous qualified and registered electrician and solar installer.  He has subsequently emigrated to Austria and I am the sucker.  I need to get an honest, suitably qualified expert to check the system and do the correct settings. I think I know what I am after, but after this realize I need advice from knowledgeable people who are not out to make a quick buck – hence me joining this forum.

Some info for you guys to understand my position and what I need, not necessarily want.

I am 78 and retired. My wife is paralyzed from the chest down so is immobile (cancer). All cooking on gas.  Solar hot water with grid backup. I do have a 3KW Honda silent generator, but not connected.  Entertainment is TV and all Apps that go with it and bridge, played 99% online.  All cooking is with gas.

I really need electricity 24/7 for lighting and TV.  I am certain load shedding will get worse, so will get the generator connected just in case.  Now not sure I’m using the correct terminology but would like the battery to supply all electricity and do so till about 40% of its power is still available. Only then if the solar cells can’t cope, the grid to take over.  But the solar cells to charge all the time, conditions permitting, and obviously cut off when the batteries fully charged.

Two questions.  What settings would you suggest?   Where do I get an honest, suitably qualified expert to check the system and do the correct settings.

If only ……….. I had known of this forum before I embarked on solar.

Growatt.pdf

On 2023/10/30 at 9:20 AM, Scorp007 said:

Can you share some of your settings? 

I got to do some reading and have attached the settings as per the attached. I have put an * next to the setting I have or written in what it is.  Example No 12 booklet states 46.0v my setting is 49v.  Please go thru this and let me know what I should change, if anything

Inverter Settings.pdf

On 2023/10/31 at 9:25 AM, RookieRod said:

Is this momentary, or does the system draw from grid as long as the kettle is heating water? 

Always on while the kettle is on or any other element appliance

It's noteworthy that your system can support the kettle when there's no grid. So clearly the inverter is making a decision to use the grid instead of the battery. 

Agree

Does this happen (using grid instead of battery) when the battery is fully charged? 

Yes it does.

OK.... so as far as I can see, your inverter is an axpert clone. I am not familiar with axperts nor their configuration.

But it seems clear now that although the battery and the inverter CAN support these loads, your inverter, for whatever reason, is choosing to draw from the grid if that is available. But this would suggest that it always draws from the grid when it's available, and the batteries just sit there getting charged or maintaining full charge. The system is working a bit like a UPS.

Do you have access to any sort of system monitoring tool. Something like this

image.png.637c251924d12cd565c12be9c8dc7d00.png

though it won't be the SAME as this, becaus this is from my Goodwe inverter, using the online Goodwe portal.

But note that the yellow trace is total load, orange is the grid (down means I'm drawing), and the purple trace is the battery. For the latter, beneath the zero axis means battery charging, above means battery is discharging. Just after 6:00 you can see the draw from the battery increases - that's my heat pump starting up.

So if you have something like this then instead of relying on deduction and inference, you can KNOW what loads are on the system and how it is responding to them. And we could see if, as I have guessed/deduced, your system is actually using grid for everything when grid is available.

But I think this is a settings issue. Grid is prioritised before battery and PV.

This brings us back to the second matter I touched on, which is having a rule in place so that you can only discharge the battery so far whils the grid is up. This leaves you with a guaranteed minimum amount in the battery when the grid goes down. Again, I can't advise on settings for your inverter. I would advise that you err on the side of caution and watch how things go and how the system behaves. Another reason these monitoring tools are so useful.

Think back to the friend I mentioned. I understand his caution, but since he's set that reserve level so high he is not saving much money. So he is going to start slowly and incrementally reducing that setting watching to see how far his battery goes and checking his own comfort level. That's the way we all have to do it (if we know that there is this setting, otherwise the installer sets and forgets).

@Bobster. The inverter is set to SBU so it should not use grid when the battery is between the setting limits.

My inputs would be as follows. 

02 Change to 40A so that you can have 20A PV charge and 20A grid charge when needed

03 Change to UPS to prevent sensitive equipment from switching off when the grid voltage is low. 

14 When good sunshine days you can try OSO to prevent grid from charging the battery. This for more gains. Can always switch back to what you have now during the non PV periods (evening) 

19 20 and 21 not sure as it is battery used dependant.

Settings without a comment looks fine. 

I hope others can add to my comment. 

 

Edited by Scorp007

2 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

14 When good sunshine days you can try OSO to prevent grid from charging the battery. This for more gains. Can always switch back to what you have now during the non PV periods (evening) 

@RookieRod

Good idea from @Scorp007 there could definitely be saving when using OSO especially if you don't use too much of your battery capacity during Ls stint in the evenings then the battery can wait until sun comes up. Lifep04 is quite ok sitting in partial state of charge.

Edited by TaliaB

Guys, thankyou so much for all this info.  I have changed some settings and boiled the kettle twice this afternoon - plenty of sunshine - and did not use the grid. I also reset menu items 12 to 46v and 13 to 54v.  Just that made the world of difference.  I have read up a lot and watched YouTube as well.  I am fully aware that both Google and YouTube are not the holy grail but I am now aware of what can be done.  What is blatantly obvious is that I do need a monitoring system.  I have a list of things I want to ask and query but that is for another time.  I unfortunately do not have access to the electricity meter, but will ask the groundsman of the complex if I can be given a meter reading each day until I get a monitoring system.  I am pretty certain that the equipment was purchased from "The Sunpays" but will investigate.  Can anyone recommend/suggest what monitoring system I should go for?  At about 17H30 this afternoon the battery was at 52 point something volts, so I am smiling like a cat at the cream.

Again a big thankyou to all.

1 hour ago, RookieRod said:

Guys, thankyou so much for all this info.  I have changed some settings and boiled the kettle twice this afternoon - plenty of sunshine - and did not use the grid. I also reset menu items 12 to 46v and 13 to 54v.  Just that made the world of difference.  I have read up a lot and watched YouTube as well.  I am fully aware that both Google and YouTube are not the holy grail but I am now aware of what can be done.  What is blatantly obvious is that I do need a monitoring system.  I have a list of things I want to ask and query but that is for another time.  I unfortunately do not have access to the electricity meter, but will ask the groundsman of the complex if I can be given a meter reading each day until I get a monitoring system.  I am pretty certain that the equipment was purchased from "The Sunpays" but will investigate.  Can anyone recommend/suggest what monitoring system I should go for?  At about 17H30 this afternoon the battery was at 52 point something volts, so I am smiling like a cat at the cream.

Again a big thankyou to all.

It's a pleasure. That's why we are here to help and learn from each other. Glad to hear in such a short time things are looking a lot better. 

If it is a Thesunpays inverter you will have their name printed in bold black lettering on the front. 

Feel free to ask questions as you go along. 

2 hours ago, RookieRod said:

Guys, thankyou so much for all this info.  I have changed some settings and boiled the kettle twice this afternoon - plenty of sunshine - and did not use the grid. I also reset menu items 12 to 46v and 13 to 54v.  Just that made the world of difference.  I have read up a lot and watched YouTube as well.  I am fully aware that both Google and YouTube are not the holy grail but I am now aware of what can be done.  What is blatantly obvious is that I do need a monitoring system.  I have a list of things I want to ask and query but that is for another time.  I unfortunately do not have access to the electricity meter, but will ask the groundsman of the complex if I can be given a meter reading each day until I get a monitoring system.  I am pretty certain that the equipment was purchased from "The Sunpays" but will investigate.  Can anyone recommend/suggest what monitoring system I should go for?  At about 17H30 this afternoon the battery was at 52 point something volts, so I am smiling like a cat at the cream.

Again a big thankyou to all.

As you system is a voltronic clone, try with watchpower app. You can install it on an old pc and monitor the inverter remotely. You can even change the parameters remotely.

I have an axpert king, that is very similar to yours and I have been using watchpower for 2 years now. In addition to watchpower, I installed a smart meter/switch on the grid connection to monitor and isolate the inverter from the grid when solar production is enough to supply the house.

Thanks Chris.  On the list I attached my setting number 20 is Floating charge and set at 51.5v so shopuld be OK.  I don't see the "Bulkcharge" as such but I assume it is number 19  "C.V. Charging voltage" which is also at 51.6v.  Am I correct?

Good news - to me anyway - boiled the kettle at 06H30 and no Grid.  Right now 07H44 battery is at 52.1v.  Smiley Face Thumbs Up GIF

13 hours ago, RookieRod said:

Guys, thankyou so much for all this info.  I have changed some settings and boiled the kettle twice this afternoon - plenty of sunshine - and did not use the grid. I also reset menu items 12 to 46v and 13 to 54v.  Just that made the world of difference.  I have read up a lot and watched YouTube as well.  I am fully aware that both Google and YouTube are not the holy grail but I am now aware of what can be done.  What is blatantly obvious is that I do need a monitoring system.  I have a list of things I want to ask and query but that is for another time.  I unfortunately do not have access to the electricity meter, but will ask the groundsman of the complex if I can be given a meter reading each day until I get a monitoring system.  I am pretty certain that the equipment was purchased from "The Sunpays" but will investigate.  Can anyone recommend/suggest what monitoring system I should go for?  At about 17H30 this afternoon the battery was at 52 point something volts, so I am smiling like a cat at the cream.

Again a big thankyou to all.

I'm glad it's working well for you now. 

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