Hi Guys,

I have a home assistant installation and want to get the current water temperature inside my geyser into home assistant.

Are there any thermostats that has MQTT or similar possibility? Or a way to hack a geyserwise thermostat to send me that info?

 

 

 

 

I had a look at the Geyserwise for the same scenario. If I check the thermostat is loose inside the pipe. My guess it is a standard analog temp sensor. 

 

Wonder if you can't just parallel connect it to a nodemcu with tasmota.

 

 

1 hour ago, Luminous said:

I had a look at the Geyserwise for the same scenario. If I check the thermostat is loose inside the pipe. My guess it is a standard analog temp sensor. 

 

Wonder if you can't just parallel connect it to a nodemcu with tasmota.

 

 

This is what I am wondering. The geyserwise TSE has a screen that shows the temperature: https://www.geyserwise.com/products/geyserwise-electronic-thermostats/geyserwise-tse/ . So the thermostat might not be a normal analog one.

I an wondering if I can somehow get that info into a nodemcu or somethibng similar with tasmota.

Edited May 30, 20197 yr by Gustav du Plessis

There was a open packet of the geyserwise at Chamberlains, I had a look and it looks like a normal NTC (10K 0.5%) Waterproof Sensor with two wires coming out and a plug on the end. That the slides down the thin pipe on the thermostat This then goes into the control module. From there one connect the display to the box. So even though it might be showing the digital value I think the original value is analog. 

 

Or if you really want, you can get a normal DS18B20 sensor and slide it down into the pipe and measure the temp. Would pretty much give the same if not more accurate reading of the water temp. This can easily then be hooked up to a nodemcu running tasmota. Add a pzem-004t or a CT clamp and a big relay and you can control the TEMP, measure the current and switch the geyser on or off as needed.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Luminous said:

There was a open packet of the geyserwise at Chamberlains, I had a look and it looks like a normal NTC (10K 0.5%) Waterproof Sensor with two wires coming out and a plug on the end. That the slides down the thin pipe on the thermostat This then goes into the control module. From there one connect the display to the box. So even though it might be showing the digital value I think the original value is analog. 

 

Or if you really want, you can get a normal DS18B20 sensor and slide it down into the pipe and measure the temp. Would pretty much give the same if not more accurate reading of the water temp. This can easily then be hooked up to a nodemcu running tasmota. Add a pzem-004t or a CT clamp and a big relay and you can control the TEMP, measure the current and switch the geyser on or off as needed.

 

 

Sliding down a sensor was my first idea, but I know literally nothing about geysers. How would I go about getting one of these into the geyser? And will it be safe?

I already have a perfect setup for controlling my geyser's power (Link). I just need the temperature to be more efficient with switching.

On 2019/05/30 at 12:23 PM, Gustav du Plessis said:

This is what I am wondering. The geyserwise TSE has a screen that shows the temperature: https://www.geyserwise.com/products/geyserwise-electronic-thermostats/geyserwise-tse/ . So the thermostat might not be a normal analog one.

I an wondering if I can somehow get that info into a nodemcu or somethibng similar with tasmota.

You get anywhere with this?

I see the temp inside the tube as a work around.

There are three wires from the controller that connect to the panel.

A 12v, a neutral and a data wire. 

The data wire is two way. My aim is to intercept the data via that data wire and then mimic the calls to change temp, put on the pump and also be able to read data like error codes, temp sensor values and states of pump and heating.

I want to be able to remove the panel completely and then replace with a D1 mini and then integrate into home assistant via MQTT.

If anyone has been able to reverse engineer this then please give heads up.

Thanks

On 2019/11/18 at 2:00 PM, Jack Kitley said:

I see the temp inside the tube as a work around.

There are three wires from the controller that connect to the panel.

A 12v, a neutral and a data wire. 

The data wire is two way. My aim is to intercept the data via that data wire and then mimic the calls to change temp, put on the pump and also be able to read data like error codes, temp sensor values and states of pump and heating.

I want to be able to remove the panel completely and then replace with a D1 mini and then integrate into home assistant via MQTT.

If anyone has been able to reverse engineer this then please give heads up.

Thanks

Hey Jack,

Just wondering if you managed to tap into the data wire and reverse engineer it or has anyone else managed to?
I am looking at going with the GeyserWise but want to have a bit more control and info in HA.

Cheers

Love this topic - asked a few times about ITS heat pumps and no-one really knows or wants to venture down this route as yet.

 

Waiting for ITS to come back to me with some questions and will try a few ideas too

Wondering about this one too. They have that wifi/gprs module for the geyserwise, how does that connect? Does it sit between the display or is there an additional connector?

I am doubt full that they use some sort of encryption between the components for communication.

I am using a Sonoff TH16 to get my geyser temperature into Home Assistant. https://eiferer.co.za/products/sonoff-th16-wifi-switch-and-remote-temperature-monitoring
with this probe https://eiferer.co.za/products/waterproof-temperature-sensor-probe?_pos=3&_sid=032e6cde0&_ss=r

I have replaced the normal thermostat with the probe and switch the geyser based on temperature and time. Below is my Home Assistant Graph

 

On 2021/07/20 at 10:00 AM, ErickvWyngaard said:

I am using a Sonoff TH16 to get my geyser temperature into Home Assistant. https://eiferer.co.za/products/sonoff-th16-wifi-switch-and-remote-temperature-monitoring
with this probe https://eiferer.co.za/products/waterproof-temperature-sensor-probe?_pos=3&_sid=032e6cde0&_ss=r

I have replaced the normal thermostat with the probe and switch the geyser based on temperature and time. Below is my Home Assistant Graph

 

Do you know roughly how accurate is the water temperature measurement?

I am planning to do the same but will be including an ac-ac 40A relay so bring 220V from TH16 onto the relay and then powering geyser via it just so I don't burn the TH16

Bobby, I haven't used a 2nd (3rd party) thermometer to check if it is accurate. I have taken my geyser to 80 degrees (not sure if that is a good idea) and the over pressure valve did not open. I have also checked mathematically based on my element kilowatts and geyser volume how much the temperature should increase in a hour, and the actual temperature rise did correspond to the mathematical check.

I have recently moved into a new house with a 4kW geyser element, and I did the same. I now use my TH16 to switch a contactor which power the element. I works without a problem. 

On 2021/07/20 at 10:00 AM, ErickvWyngaard said:

I am using a Sonoff TH16 to get my geyser temperature into Home Assistant. https://eiferer.co.za/products/sonoff-th16-wifi-switch-and-remote-temperature-monitoring
with this probe https://eiferer.co.za/products/waterproof-temperature-sensor-probe?_pos=3&_sid=032e6cde0&_ss=r

I have replaced the normal thermostat with the probe and switch the geyser based on temperature and time. Below is my Home Assistant Graph

 

Hi @ErickvWyngaard - Would you mind explaining how you get the temperature probe into the geyser ?

On 2021/09/15 at 2:17 PM, Rich said:

Hi @ErickvWyngaard - Would you mind explaining how you get the temperature probe into the geyser ?

Hi Rich. below is a picture of a typical geyser element. The red arrow shows where your normal thermostat fits. You need to take out the original thermostat and replace it with the Sonoff probe. For this type of element, you will also need to put lugs on your Live and Natural wires going to the element, to make the electrical connection. With this type of element the lugs are part of the thermostat, so if you remove the thermostat, you loose your electrical connection.

I hope this helps. If you have a different element or something is unclear you can send me a photo and I will try to assist.

@ErickvWyngaard, when replacing the original thermostat/probe with a Sonoff, you are also removing the 90 degree safety cut outs, imho, that leaves you with no safety features if the Sonoff fails

Edited September 20, 20214 yr by Tariq

15 hours ago, Tariq said:

@ErickvWyngaard, when replacing the original thermostat/probe with a Sonoff, you are also removing the 90 degree safety cut outs, imho, that leaves you with no safety features if the Sonoff fails

@Tariq, you are right. My geyser is still on a timer, so it never switches off based on temperature, although it will if it gets to hot. There is also a safety valve, and though it is not ideal to heat the geyser until the safety valve open, it is there to protect the geyser if it gets to hot.

 

Have you considered strapping the TH16 against the hot water outlet (typically copper at the top of the geyser) - place it under pipe insulation.

Then you keep your thermostat and all safety mechanisms in place, set the thermostat to 70. It then allows control and manual fallback to the tried&tested thermostat

On 2021/09/20 at 5:06 PM, ErickvWyngaard said:

Hi Rich. below is a picture of a typical geyser element. The red arrow shows where your normal thermostat fits. You need to take out the original thermostat and replace it with the Sonoff probe. For this type of element, you will also need to put lugs on your Live and Natural wires going to the element, to make the electrical connection. With this type of element the lugs are part of the thermostat, so if you remove the thermostat, you loose your electrical connection.

I hope this helps. If you have a different element or something is unclear you can send me a photo and I will try to assist.

Thanks @ErickvWyngaard !

On 2021/09/25 at 5:29 AM, kellerza said:

Have you considered strapping the TH16 against the hot water outlet (typically copper at the top of the geyser) - place it under pipe insulation.

Then you keep your thermostat and all safety mechanisms in place, set the thermostat to 70. It then allows control and manual fallback to the tried&tested thermostat

Not a bad idea, need to see how hot that pipe gets. Im assuming your idea involves strapping it to the pipe so there is contact between the probe and te pipe? 

How do you integrate the temp probe into the homeassistant? 

my geyser is on the roof - if i use the TH16 but leave it ON and use the input from the temp sensor in homeassistant to control the DB circuit breaker for the geyser would that work?

i see the TH16 specifically says NOT for geyser switching…..

 

@mikeblackburnHome Assistant has a easy integration with Sonoff. You can have a look at this video. There has been some changes with HACS since this video was released, but it should give you a good idea where to start.

I've been using my TH16 on my geyser for almost two years now without a problem. I have a 2kW element in my geyser. 

If you have a smart circuit breaker you can do it as you describe above, but you will have to put in a second power supply for the sonoff TH16. Otherwise, if the circuit breaker switch off, the sonoff will also switch off and you won't be able to see the temperature

 

Thanks... have managed to figure it out - have the TH16 attached to the hot water pipe on the geyser - it sends temp info to HA which then nodeRed's the CBI breaker. seems to be working quite well!

On 2019/05/30 at 12:46 PM, Luminous said:

There was a open packet of the geyserwise at Chamberlains, I had a look and it looks like a normal NTC (10K 0.5%) Waterproof Sensor with two wires coming out and a plug on the end. That the slides down the thin pipe on the thermostat This then goes into the control module. From there one connect the display to the box. So even though it might be showing the digital value I think the original value is analog. 

 

Or if you really want, you can get a normal DS18B20 sensor and slide it down into the pipe and measure the temp. Would pretty much give the same if not more accurate reading of the water temp. This can easily then be hooked up to a nodemcu running tasmota. Add a pzem-004t or a CT clamp and a big relay and you can control the TEMP, measure the current and switch the geyser on or off as needed.

I had a look online at pictures of the geyser wise thermostat and documentation.  And they suggested it still is a thermostat inside that can cut off (without the controller being involved).  But cuts off at a higher temperature.  In addition to that they have a temperature sensor, as you said NTC is probably their choice (given its low cost).

Quote

• Mechanical thermal cut-out at 90°C. Please note the cut-out temperature for systems expected to reach temperatures above this temperature.

Source

I've personally wanted to install something like this myself.  Currently I'm using a CBI Astute Isolator (with ESP8266 hacked in and converted to Tasmota) and using a schedule that turns the geyser on for 20 minutes twice a day.  But I'd like it to be more accurate than that.  Since I'm using Tasmota I'd be able to monitor a temperature sensor.

I've got a Heat Tech class B geyser + lots of additional insulation on the geyser and pipes, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it is really making tbh.

That is my total power usage since I installed (Dec 18, 2021), but I have no idea what my power usage was before...  My electricity is still "estimate" no "actual" so price hasn't gone down.  And in any case I've been using Air Conditioner a lot lately.

Edited February 1, 20224 yr by Gnome

On 2021/09/25 at 5:29 AM, kellerza said:

Have you considered strapping the TH16 against the hot water outlet (typically copper at the top of the geyser) - place it under pipe insulation.

Then you keep your thermostat and all safety mechanisms in place, set the thermostat to 70. It then allows control and manual fallback to the tried&tested thermostat

This is probably the best solution I've heard thus far. Only now need to figure out a way to get power to the sonoff in the roof