9 hours ago, Mark said:

I use the HA02 and I think it does. My MP never goes out by more than 1% under heavy charge or load. Normally averages around 0.1% variation.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
 

My experience too.

Ive noticed there is a model of the HA02 balancer that support 6 volt batteries 

 

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Battery-equalizer-HA02-4-X-12V-used-for-lead-acid-batteris-Balancer-charger-for-48V-Gel/32545185506.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.6qMiW4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10068_10000007_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_10073_10097_10100_10096_10070_10052_423_10050_10051_424,searchweb201603_1&btsid=d9633894-8d89-4d1a-abe6-326b211a6ddf

The HA02 does from 2.4V to 12V (not multiple models).

Really flexible item for the price..

Ek het n Mecer 5kva en wil batterye  koop.Moet ek 4 *200 Neradas koop teen R2400 elk of 10 CSb 80a/ h war 1 jaar oud ?....R4000...is en sal 1 kw panele die batt bedags kan vol laai saam met n genie vir 2 ure saans?

Hi Farmer

3 hours ago, Farmer said:

Ek het n Mecer 5kva en wil batterye  koop.Moet ek 4 *200 Neradas koop teen R2400 elk of 10 CSb 80a/ h war 1 jaar oud ?....R4000...is en sal 1 kw panele die batt bedags kan vol laai saam met n genie vir 2 ure saans?

Sonder n' idee van hoeveel krag jy gaan gebruik kan ons nie jou vrae beantwoord nie. Selfde met die vraag oor die batterye. Is die jaar oud batterye gebruik of was hul op "standby". Jy sal moet baie meer inligting verskaf voor ons kan vir jou help. Sonder om enige iets te weet van jou "setup" raai ek dat 1kW panele te min sal wees.

Chris

@Energy Perhaps this should be moved to a new thread.

My eerste vraag is: Hoe gaan jy 10 batterye, wat ek aanneem 12V elke is, rangskik om 48V te maak? Ek vrees jy gaan 12 batterye nodig hê om drie stringe van 4 elk te maak. Dan het jy 'n totaal van 80*3 = 240Ah, wat net 'n knertsie beter is as die 200Ah van die Naradas. Parallele stringe kom ook met uitdagings. Ek dink dus jy gaan beter vaar met een string Naradas.

Die Narada battery doen omtrent 700 siklusse na 'n 50% vlak van ontlading (kyk nou net my mooi Afrikaans). Dis nie uitstekend nie, maar ek vermoed dis beter as die CSBs. Ek dink amper die CSB is 'n UPS battery wat eintlik net so nou en dan wil werk, alhoewel ek dalk verkeerd is daar.

Ek dink 1kw gaan aan die kort kant wees. Net so as 'n duim reël het jy die ekwivalent van 5 ure se sonlig teen die piek lewering wat op die paneel aangedui word. Jou 1kwp panele (ons sit die p by vir piek) is dus goed vir omtrent 5kwh per dag. Jou batterye se totale kapasiteit is 48*200 = 9.6kwh, waarvan jy tipies net die helfte wil gebruik om die batterye se leeftyd ietwat te verleng. Dit beteken jou 1kwp is net-net genoeg om daardie 50% in die dag terug te sit -- as dit nie bewolk is nie -- en daar is geen ruimte vir direkte verbruik gedurende die dag nie.

En ons het nog glad nie begin praat oor of dit genoeg stoorspasie is om deur die nag te kom nie. Jy kan met net 4kwh deur die nag kom as jy baie versigtig is... maar by my huisie in die stad sal dit waarskynlik nooit gebeur nie. Ek moet 12kwh hê om dit hier te kan doen :-)

Ek hoop dit help darem al is dit net 'n halwe antwoord.

2 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

Hi Farmer

Sonder n' idee van hoeveel krag jy gaan gebruik kan ons nie jou vrae beantwoord nie. Selfde met die vraag oor die batterye. Is die jaar oud batterye gebruik of was hul op "standby". Jy sal moet baie meer inligting verskaf voor ons kan vir jou help. Sonder om enige iets te weet van jou "setup" raai ek dat 1kW panele te min sal wees.

Chris

@Energy Perhaps this should be moved to a new thread.

Thanks, sure what do you recommend.  J

On 22 December 2016 at 9:08 PM, Chris Hobson said:

Hi Farmer

Sonder n' idee van hoeveel krag jy gaan gebruik kan ons nie jou vrae beantwoord nie. Selfde met die vraag oor die batterye. Is die jaar oud batterye gebruik of was hul op "standby". Jy sal moet baie meer inligting verskaf voor ons kan vir jou help. Sonder om enige iets te weet van jou "setup" raai ek dat 1kW panele te min sal wees.

Chris

@Energy Perhaps this should be moved to a new thread.

Ek het so 6000 w per dag nodig en het n gennie wat 2 ure per dag hardloop wat ook laaiwerk op die batterye kan doen totdat ek nie meer 380 v nodig het nie...dis vir water pomp....Ek het 12 Csb 80 Ah batt gekoop = 960 a/h...die Csb kan 500 siklusse doen teen 50 % ontlaai...teen R400 per batt...kon dit nie los...hulle was n jaar lank op bystand en toets nog baie mooi en stabiel.

Ek het 5 5 Kva Mecer

960 a/h batterye

1,5 kw Panele

16 kva Lister generator

Vraag: Sal die panele en die gennie( 2 ure per dag)die batterye kan volhou en deur die dag en nag my behoefte kan voorsien?

Dis nie so eenvoudig as om die kapasiteit met die aantal batterye te maal nie, so jy het nie 960Ah nie, eerder 'n kwart daarvan. Jy sou die 12 batterye rangskik in 3 stringe van 4 batterye elk. As jy batterye series gaan die spanning op en die stroom bly konstant. As jy in parallel sit bly die spanning konstant en die stroom gaan op.

Jy het dus 3 stringe van 80Ah elk, dws 240Ah.

Teen 50%: 48 * 240 * 0.5 = 5760Wh oftewel 5.76kwh.

Ek vermoed wat jy bedoel is jy het 6000wh (6 kilowatt-uur) nodig per dag. Ek neem aan van dit word in die dag direk gebruik en hoef nie geberg te word nie. So jou battery kapasiteit lyk vir my reg.

1500W panele teen 48V is 30A by die piek. Dis veilig vir 240Ah (jy wil laai teen 24-36A). Dit is selfs veilig vir twee stringe (onder 20% van kapasiteit). So dit lyk vir my reg.

1.5 * 5 = 7.5kwh opwekkingsvermoë per dag, lyk ook goed.

Sien enige van julle ander slim ouens iets wat 'n probleem kan wees?

Al rede hoekom ek die som vir die batterye met twee stringe ook gedoen het is omdat jy verkieslik jou stringe individueel wil "fuse". As een fuse gaan wil jy weet jy is veilig met die addisionele stringe wat oorbly en jy laai nie te vinnig nie.

Plonkster,na alles wat jy aangeneem en vermoed het ,vermoed ek jy is reg....al wat die batterye moet trek is my yskas deur die nag...deur die dag moet die panele daarvoor sorg en vir 2-3 ure saans gaan die gennie die ander trek en ook laai.

Hoe moet ek die batterye koppel om beste balans te kry?

Watter kontakbreker of sekerings moet ek waar gebruik?

Dankie vir julle tyd en moeite.

@Chris Hobson, I believe this is more your domain? :-)

I am going to change to English purely out of the need to make sure what I mean is what I say. My technical Afrikaans is not great and I don't want to lose something in translation.

240 Ah is more than sufficient for a fridge overnight but beware of small/parasitic loads like cellphone chargers, wifi routers etc.The running of a genny for 2-3 hours at night is a clever idea in that it means you can power your loads from the genny at the time of day that under normal circumstances has a high load.

To get the best balance each battery string must be wired so that they have the same resistance. This point has been discussed at ad infinitum here on the forum. This is the reason for not mixing battery sizes and types as there is no hope in hell of an even charging - so all the same type and size of battery of the same age so that the internal resistance is the same (or as near to the same as physically possible). Now with the wiring. If string 1 is wired up with 2 short and one medium cable totalling 450mm then string 2's total cabling total must also be 450mm. Each individual cable does not have to mirror the cables of string 1 but the total length must be the same. Same applies to string 3. This symmetry is easy to achieve with only 2 strings but becomes more difficult to achieve with multiple strings of 3 or more.

Here is an example from a Victron guide (I think).

Wiring up two strings it says 24V but it could just as well be 48V.

 

With 3 strings I would use busbars which you can order from Energy here Powerforum Store.

Balancing individual batteries requires battery balancers. You have two choices really a Victron unit or a Chinese unit. The Victron units are about R1k and can balance two 12V  batteries. So you need three of them. Whereas the Chinese units (HA 02) are a shade under R1k and can balance 4 batteries (2V 6V 8V or 12V). I have the Chinese version because I am a cheapskate. If you want the Chinese version @Chris Russouw imported some just before Xmas. Chat to him to get the contact details. In a perfect world you would need separate balancers for each string. In practice some of us take short cuts and use one balancer for more than one string.

The debate you can follow here, here and here and decide for yourself..

 

Addition: While you are busy get a Victron BMV 702 battery balancer with mid-point capability.

 

 

 

 

Hier is dit weer.

Sit in die "load" wat moet krag kry, stel die volts, sit die hoeveelheid panele in en sien hoeveel batterye is nodig.

Master - Off-Grid - Solar Panel-Design1.1.15.xlsx

Does someone have some advice for me regarding equalising Trojan T105 flooded LA batteries. The data sheet shows an equalisation voltage of 64.8V is required, way beyond the Axpert's maximum of 58.4V. The bulk charge voltage is 59.3, also above the Axpert's maximum. From the information I could find on the Internet about the HA02 devices, it would appear that they are not suitable for flooded lead acid batteries unless they are VRLA sealed batteries. So it would seem the only solution would be a separate charger that can do 64.8V and manually equalise the batteries when necessary. Or does someone have a better solution.

If you use another charger to push them that high, disconnect the Axpert(s) to avoid frying those 63V capacitors.

As I understand, you only have to equalise them if they suffered a deep discharge or of there is a imbalance that you need to correct. I forgot what the threshold is.

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17 hours ago, ebrsa said:

 From the information I could find on the Internet about the HA02 devices, it would appear that they are not suitable for flooded lead acid batteries unless they are VRLA sealed batteries.

Hi - Did they say why the HA02 would not be suited to flooded lead acid batteries? VRLA batteries are very similar to standard LA batteries. The chemistries are the same, the charging rates are similar. In some cases the only difference is that the LAs are vented and the VRLA are not. The only drawback to my mind would be possible corrosion of the lugs.

If I had vented batteries I would do an equalise charge under the conditions listed by Plonky above. Doing an equalise charge gets one "hands on" with your batteries and that is a good thing. My  AGM batteries are coming up for 600 cycles and I would love peer into the cells and see what is going on. Instead I have to rely on voltage and temperature to get a feel of how they are ageing.

Thanks a lot for your replies Plonkster and Chris. It would seem to me that battery charging requires a lot more research and discussion considering the substantial cost component of the installation they are. And while grid tie inverters with some battery backup for blackouts is perhaps more efficient, it won't work for me given our municipality's insane feed and load rates. Below is a quote from the site where I found it as well as the URL link. Trojan has several videos on their website and say one should equalise only flooded lead acid batteries by overcharging. They recommend equalisation every 30 days, or if the specific gravity falls below 1.235 or of there is a difference in SG of more than 0.03 between cells. One clearly needs a hydrometer that can measure to this accuracy and the nearest I could find is from http://www.snapon.co.za/hydrometer-battery-bt101. Also according to the T105 data sheet the equalise voltage should be 64.8V, way higher than the Axpert's 58.4V maximum and therefore requires a separate charger. So far I have not been able to find an adjustable charger on the Internet and will probably have to build my own. The T105 batteries also requires a bulk charge voltage of 59.3V which again is beyond the Axpert's 58.4V maximum. To make it even more onerous, one would have to disconnect the battery bank when equalising as Plonkster pointed out but that in my case only requires pulling the DC isolator/fuse switch to the off position.

 

I would expect that inverter manufacturers should at least be aware of these issues and build their inverters accordingly or issue a warning that they are not suitable for flooded lead acid batteries that are not sealed as in the case of VRLA batteries. Even so Axpert has settings for flooded batteries but neglects to mention that it certainly does not meet the requirements of T105's which is a widely used deep cycle battery. Neither does the custom settings. Had I known all this I may have installed VRLA's but they seem to have a limitation on charging current to prevent gassing. The whole issue is a large can of worms and it would be in the interest of all members if we could pool all knowledge and information on this thread of the forum. So I live in hope that a fact based solution will be forthcoming in time. I would dearly love to install something like the HA02 and automate the process.

 

Notwithstanding all the trials and tribulations, it remains very satisfying to see the municipal electricity account reduced by some 65% so far.

 

Here is the source and information regarding the HA02 and a copy of their statement.

The link is:   https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/battery-equalizer-battery-balancer-for-4-pieces-battery-connected-in-series-for-48V-battery-system-solar/1453302_32340327736.html

 

HA02 battery equalizer is suitable for lead-acid batteries(VRLA), lithium iron phosphate batteries(LFP), nickel-cadmium secondary batteries(Ni/CD), and nickel-metal hydride secondary batteries(Ni/MH). It starts work when the voltage higher than 2.4V, it means that this equalier can be used in a single cell battery range from 2.4V to 12V. One equalizer can connect 4 batteries once a time, if battery less than the 4, the extra cable can be vacant (positive and negative terminal should be avoided), does not affect the equilibrium effects. The equalizer is not affected with battery connection way, no matter in series or in parallel, both can work.

 

The reason why you shouldn't equalise SLA/AGM batteries (at least, not frequently) is because you can't add water. When you equalise, you boil away water. It is a deliberate but controlled overcharge cycle that you're running.

As I recall, the absorption voltage isn't as critical for the Trojans. Using whatever the max is that the Axpert can do is usually sufficient. But you cannot equalise using the Axpert nor can you do it with the inverter in circuit. That's a real shortcoming of the Axpert, one that owners and installers should be aware of. I agree with you fully, I'd go as far as saying that you simply cannot use the Axpert with Trojan batteries, it's not compatible, at least not to the average guy who isn't 100% on top of what he's doing.

Still a small price to pay given how ridiculously affordable they are :-)

Re hydrometer: The cheapie you buy at the local motor spares place works just fine. Over the years I acquired two of them... now collecting dust as everything is now SLA or AGM... for now.

Good battery chargers that are configurable tend to be rather expensive.

I found them comparing, in price, to the larger MPPT controllers.

Not maybe a solution for the Axpert users, so view it as a thought to ponder on if you want to follow the Trojan charging specs to the T, for as many problems as this may solve, it does create it own set of complications.

1 minute ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

I found them comparing, in price, to the larger MPPT controllers.

So one way to make it work is to buy an actual MPPT, something like a BlueSolar 150/35, or a Microcare unit, and make a changeover switch so you can use your solar panels itself to do an equalisation charge.

Wiring an AC power supply to an MPPT also works, but it has to be current limited or have a capacity larger than the MPPT itself. It's very interesting to watch an MPPT on a current-limited supply: It ramps until it hits the limit and backs off repeatedly. If you have old style analog meters it puts up a cool show :-)

3 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Good battery chargers that are configurable tend to be rather expensive.

I found them comparing, in price, to the larger MPPT controllers.

Not maybe a solution for the Axpert users, so view it as a thought to ponder on if you want to follow the Trojan charging specs to the T, for as many problems as this may solve, it does create it own set of complications.

You can use an external MPPT on the Axpert inverter as well, then it works the same way as the Victron inverter do, although you still have limited charge and SOC settings on the inverter charger side. 

On 1/6/2017 at 6:02 PM, ebrsa said:

I would dearly love to install something like the HA02 and automate the process.

 

 

 

Here is the source and information regarding the HA02 and a copy of their statement.

The link is:   https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/battery-equalizer-battery-balancer-for-4-pieces-battery-connected-in-series-for-48V-battery-system-solar/1453302_32340327736.html

 

HA02 battery equalizer is suitable for lead-acid batteries(VRLA), lithium iron phosphate batteries(LFP), nickel-cadmium secondary batteries(Ni/CD), and nickel-metal hydride secondary batteries(Ni/MH). It starts work when the voltage higher than 2.4V, it means that this equalier can be used in a single cell battery range from 2.4V to 12V. One equalizer can connect 4 batteries once a time, if battery less than the 4, the extra cable can be vacant (positive and negative terminal should be avoided), does not affect the equilibrium effects. The equalizer is not affected with battery connection way, no matter in series or in parallel, both can work.

 

Hi ebrsa

I think the terms got a bit mixed up somewhere in the chinglish. The HA02 is not technically an equalizer, but rather a balancer and by keeping the batteries balanced you might need to perform equalization less frequently.

The purpose of cell (battery) balancers are to keep the voltages of the cells (batteries), it is connected to, as close as possible to each other - that is exactly what the HA02 also does. By keeping the voltages of the cells (batteries) close, you effectively keep the SOC of the cells (batteries) very close to each other and if checked with a hydrometer the SG should also be very close to each other. By keeping the values of the SOC's of the cells (batteries) close, you might not need to do equalization charges that often, unless there is another reason to do so.

From the Trojan website: Equalizing is an overcharge performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged. It reverses the build-up of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulphate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulphation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.

Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (+/- .015) are detected after fully charging a battery. 
 

So, by making use of balancers like the HA02 or similar, your batteries should be in a much better state than without using a balancer of some sort. You might still have to do equalization charges though, just less frequently.

23 hours ago, superdiy said:

Hi ebrsa

I think the terms got a bit mixed up somewhere in the chinglish. The HA02 is not technically an equalizer, but rather a balancer and by keeping the batteries balanced you might need to perform equalization less frequently.

The purpose of cell (battery) balancers are to keep the voltages of the cells (batteries), it is connected to, as close as possible to each other - that is exactly what the HA02 also does. By keeping the voltages of the cells (batteries) close, you effectively keep the SOC of the cells (batteries) very close to each other and if checked with a hydrometer the SG should also be very close to each other. By keeping the values of the SOC's of the cells (batteries) close, you might not need to do equalization charges that often, unless there is another reason to do so.

From the Trojan website: Equalizing is an overcharge performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged. It reverses the build-up of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulphate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulphation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.

Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (+/- .015) are detected after fully charging a battery. 
 

So, by making use of balancers like the HA02 or similar, your batteries should be in a much better state than without using a balancer of some sort. You might still have to do equalization charges though, just less frequently.

It would actually be worth-while if someone with thise combination of equipment could run some tests and see if the balancer does help with the Trojan batteries. I have neither Trojan batteries nor a HA02 balancer. 

Thank you for your explanation Superdiy. I have read and re-read the information on the Trojan website and watched the videos repeatedly to try and fully understand the matter. The sellers of the  HA04 whose website link I posted, specifies VRLA for lead acid batteries.  The specifications are different from flooded lead acid batteries. Trojan actually recommends that VRLA and AGM batteries should never be equalised. If balancing my T105 flooded lead acid batteries would be beneficial, I would be very happy. My concerm is that the sellers specifically only mention VRLA and not ordinary flooded batteries. It would seems that I need an equalising charger in any event and that should hopefully take care of keeping the bank equalised and balanced. It would seem to me that these are two words with essentially the same meaning. I hope to get some more expert information from someone that Manie referred me  to and will share what I learn on this thread. However I appreciate the time you have taken to help me and would be great if it turns out that the HA04  is suitable for flooded lead acid batteries.

Hi ebrsa

I have both T105REs and HA-02 balancers, the balancers are just not connected yet. Up until recently I've used zener balancers as per the detail and link @Chris Hobson has posted about a year ago. The voltages of my batteries were up to 0.4V apart initially and since I've added the zener balancers it became more balanced until the voltages between the batteries were within about 5 - 10mV of each other. So even the cheap zener balancers worked fairly well to keep the batteries balanced.

You should still not confuse the two terms namely balancing and equalizing - however by balancing the batteries continuously by means of battery balancers you will probably not have to equalize them that often, if at all - keep in mind that balancers are permanently connected to the batteries. On the other hand an equalization charge is an occasional controlled charge at a higher than normal voltage for a short period of time (say about 1 - 2 hours) to mix the electrolyte in each cell and to reverse possible sulphasion.

You can google a bit and read up about battery balancing and all the associated advantages; in my opinion you will only benefit from installing balancers.