New energy rules for South Africa will help businesses and households move off Eskom’s grid

[DDD]

All the reason to go grid tie and NOT BATTERIES    

 

Mineral Resources and Energy minister Gwede Mantashe has published new embedded generation regulations for public comment, in a move that is expected to help limit the impact of load shedding.

The gazette effectively raises the threshold for embedded generation from 1MW to 10MW, providing businesses and private individuals more room to build their own electricity supply away from Eskom’s grid.

However, the gazette includes the proviso that private groups who plan to use this embedded generation will have to register with National Energy Regulator of South Africa (NERSA).

President Cyril Ramaphosa previously announced that government would look at increasing the embedded generation limit in his February 2021 state of the nation address.

“Recent analysis suggests that easing the licensing requirements for new embedded generation projects could unlock up to 5,000 MW of additional capacity and help to ease the impact of load shedding,” he said.

“We will therefore amend Schedule 2 of the Electricity Regulation Act, 2006 (Act 4 of 2006) within the next three months to increase the licensing threshold for embedded generation.

“This will include consultation among key stakeholders on the level at which the new threshold should be set and the finalization of the necessary enabling frameworks.”

A report published in March by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) shows that South Africa now spends more than 10% of the year load shedding, which has serious knock-on effects for business and consumers.

The report shows that 2020 saw 859 hours of load shedding – seemingly the most intense year of blackouts yet.

“In 2020, load shedding occurred for 859 hours of the year (9.8%) with an upper limit of 1,798 GWh relative to actually achieved energy shed of 1,269 GWh,” the CSIR said.

The most intensive load shedding was seen before the Covid-19 lockdown, which accounted for 63% of all load shedding seen in 2020. Most of this was stage 2 load shedding, the research body said.

[Bobster.]

34 minutes ago, Erastus said:

All the reason to go grid tie and NOT BATTERIES    

 

Mineral Resources and Energy minister Gwede Mantashe has published new embedded generation regulations for public comment, in a move that is expected to help limit the impact of load shedding.

The gazette effectively raises the threshold for embedded generation from 1MW to 10MW, providing businesses and private individuals more room to build their own electricity supply away from Eskom’s grid.

However, the gazette includes the proviso that private groups who plan to use this embedded generation will have to register with National Energy Regulator of South Africa (NERSA).

President Cyril Ramaphosa previously announced that government would look at increasing the embedded generation limit in his February 2021 state of the nation address.

“Recent analysis suggests that easing the licensing requirements for new embedded generation projects could unlock up to 5,000 MW of additional capacity and help to ease the impact of load shedding,” he said.

“We will therefore amend Schedule 2 of the Electricity Regulation Act, 2006 (Act 4 of 2006) within the next three months to increase the licensing threshold for embedded generation.

“This will include consultation among key stakeholders on the level at which the new threshold should be set and the finalization of the necessary enabling frameworks.”

A report published in March by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) shows that South Africa now spends more than 10% of the year load shedding, which has serious knock-on effects for business and consumers.

The report shows that 2020 saw 859 hours of load shedding – seemingly the most intense year of blackouts yet.

“In 2020, load shedding occurred for 859 hours of the year (9.8%) with an upper limit of 1,798 GWh relative to actually achieved energy shed of 1,269 GWh,” the CSIR said.

The most intensive load shedding was seen before the Covid-19 lockdown, which accounted for 63% of all load shedding seen in 2020. Most of this was stage 2 load shedding, the research body said.

Is that 10MW per day? I'd think that's a lot of gear for a house, but a mall or a hospital should find that worthwhile.

[DDD]

The way I understand is 5M measured if you wish.  The problem currently is that home owners get limited to a small amount per month.  Now councils will have to adapt and in my case with a 40M x 8M I can easily pack 120 x 605W or 7.2KWhr. My current limit is 10Kw.

Currently I am smiling all the way. I think R8K a month is worth it.  Can buy a nice car with that.

[DDD]

So From Nov till now I saved R 19 000.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Erastus

[Calvin]

5 hours ago, Bobster said:

Is that 10MW per day?

MW is Mega Watt, a measure of power not energy.

So, 10MW would be 240 MWh (240 000 kWh) per day.  It is quite a lot.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Calvin

[Bobster.]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

MW is Mega Watt, a measure of power not energy.

So, 10MW would be 240 MWh (240 000 kWh) per day.  It is quite a lot.

Thank you. I was assuming "10MW/h" but the quoted report doesn't say that. You have bought clarification to the argument.

As other posters are pointing out, tariffs are everything here. At present, in Jozi, I can sell back to the grid but the tariffs (including the fixed monthly charges and the cost of the required meter) don't make it worth my while, so I don't bother. 

Even if the tariffs do benefit me financially, City Power / Eskom are going to run into the problem seen in Australia, where they have so much power that didn't cost them much at the wrong time of day that it actually becomes a problem for them.

There's got to be a better solution than this. If they want to pay me for kw/h I sell back to the grid between 4pm and 7am, which would mean me buying a whole lot more gear. then that might be a solution. I agree that it would cost me to get into the game, but at least then they'd be addressing the problem and not having to smeek with people to turn off all non essential appliances between 17:00 and 21:00.

I can't see the game I'm playing as a winner for anybody but me, and even then it's not a dead cert.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Bobster
Seplling

[GreenFields]

Is it overly nitpicking to argue that this is exactly NOT helping anyone to move off Eskom's grid, but to increase the size allowed that private entities can connect their power sources WITHIN the grid?

Also, this is of no additional benefit to households if the current limit is 1 MW. That's 1,000kW, and if we use this Goodwe ES 4.6kW inverter as the benchmark size for home installations, that's already over 200 times bigger than the typical home installation. Increase the limit tenfold, and clearly you're only benefitting medium to large-scale businesses, except if you mean that households benefit indirectly from availability, ie. ability to buy this electricity wheeled through the grid.

Edited April 28, 2021 by GreenFields
wording

[DDD]

33 minutes ago, Brani said:

From COCT regulations:

4. SSEG systems not permitted
Net generators are not permitted. SSEGs can either be “net consumers” or “net generators”: “Net consumers” on average (over rolling 12-month periods) purchase more electricity from the utility than they feed back onto the utility grid. “Net generators” on average (over rolling 12- month periods) purchase less electricity from the utility than they feed back onto the utility grid.
SSEGs which are net generators are not permitted by the City, and these Requirements therefore applyonlytonetconsumers.
As mentioned in the introduction, the City does not believe it has a legal mandate to purchase electricity, on average taken over any consecutive 12-month period, in excess of what it sells to the customer in question.
2 www.capetown.gov.za/elecserviceforms 14 | P a g e
       
Transfer of power to a different location is not permitted:
The power produced by the SSEG must be utilised on the property on which the generator is located, or fed onto the utility network for purchase by the City. The following are not permissible:
1. Installation on a different property to where the power is used (e.g. installing solar PV panels on a neighbour’s house's roof)
2. Supplying power from an SSEG on your premises to another premises (e.g. selling power to neighbours or to another premises elsewhere in the city). This is also known as wheeling.

 

https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Procedures%2C guidelines and regulations/Requiremenst for Samll-Scale Embedded Generation.pdf

You started your generation in October/November last year. Unless they don’t notice it, you are a net generator.

 

Maybe Afrikaans will help you?  ...

The gazette effectively raises the threshold for embedded generation from 1MW to 10MW, providing businesses and private individuals more room to build their own electricity supply away from Eskom’s grid.

However, the gazette includes the proviso that private groups who plan to use this embedded generation will have to register with National Energy Regulator of South Africa (NERSA).

 

Any case  up to now I have saved more than R19 000 since 22 Oct.
Still worth it and still don't pay expensive batteries.

Waste of timje to show you facts...

Edited April 28, 2021 by Erastus

[DDD]

6 hours ago, Calvin said:

MW is Mega Watt, a measure of power not energy.

So, 10MW would be 240 MWh (240 000 kWh) per day.  It is quite a lot.

Its is.  The feeling is that it may be limited to 5MW.  Also they (CSIR) knows that a roof has limited Kwhrs. Think about it if each home connected to Eskom must apply and be issued a certificate.

The cost will be astronomical.

Therefore the database when up and running at NERSA will make sense.  Almost like a Title deed and the responsibility remains that of the owner

 

If you read the report Eskom has a very sad impact on SA

I remember when every one said that grid tied will never be allowed.  If you think about it a wind generator is already in the national law as an approved usage for home owners sam as a 24M mast for a Cell base station....

Edited April 28, 2021 by Erastus

[Calvin]

21 hours ago, Erastus said:

The way I understand is 5M measured if you wish.  The problem currently is that home owners get limited to a small amount per month.  Now councils will have to adapt and in my case with a 40M x 8M I can easily pack 120 x 605W or 7.2KWhr. My current limit is 10Kw.

I have been trying to make sense of this post.  Please help.

I assume that the 5M you refer to is 5MW (megawatt).

I assume that 40M is in fact 40m (metres), and 8M is 8m.  I further assume that the 605W you refer to is a 605W panel.  The only one I can find is a Jinko RS600M-120HC - they measure 2172mm x 1303mm.  You could fit a theoretical maximum of 113 into an area 40m x 8m if you packed them without gaps to avoid shading, more like 40% of that in practice.  "Easily 120" would be a stretch - perhaps I have misunderstood you?

By 7.2 KWhr I assume that you mean 7.2kWh.  I do not understand that - 120 x 605W would be about 72kW.   (Expressing power output in kWh makes no sense unless you attach a time dimension to it.)  Did you mean to say 7.2kW?  If so it should have been 72kW.

So, (making many assumptions) is this what you were trying to say?

"I have a space of 40m x 8m where I could fit in 72kW of PV using 120 x 605W panels".  It would not be quite true, but OK.

Forgive me if I am being too pedantic, but there are many people who read these forums who are not technically educated - the conversation will be more easily understood by all if we so not each invent our own abbreviations.

[Kalahari Meerkat]

Ok, people, my vote is for no registration or licensing required, unless you feed into the grid, if all you are doing is supplementing commercial power with your own, or even run off the grid, it should have no requirements.

As for being a producer of power... the problem is, that if you need to feed into the grid, the line voltage will rise and this, if everyone in your neighbourhood wants to do this, can end up with 300V on a 220V circuit, which some equipment may not be all that happy with, then a cloud comes over/the wind stops and all the power being produced disappears and the utility is up the creek and the 300V turns into 180V as all the consumers pull instead of push power... it is not as simple as some may try and make it sound, that we are being ripped off by Eskom and the grid tied municipalities goes without saying, but since they have run the infrastructure into bad shape & all, it probably is best to consider doing them the favour of lightening the load and disconnecting from the grid. At least until such time as they get their issues sorted and produce reliable power at a more reasonable rate and don't charge for everything else that is really included in the energy charge, separately, but is a great way of adding more fees and make it sound no too unreasonable.

Service and Administration Charge
Network Capacity Charge
Network Demand Charge
Anciliiary service charge
Energy charge
 

Wait, you forgot to add the drinks and hookers charge...

Edited April 29, 2021 by Kalahari Meerkat

[DDD]

2 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

Warning, wild conspiracy theory below:

As soon as there's a registry of consumers with their own power generation capacity, you can bet your bippy that the next thing to follow will be a tax on that generation capacity. They'll say it's to "motivate net consumers to supply into the grid", or to "recover costs associated with increased maintenance overhead". Now, who in their right mind would buy a system that's going to end up costing them more, so eventually there'll be a lot of people acting as a major reserve supply for our country's struggling utility. So they'll complain that there needs to be regulation of this supply to ensure that all facilities are up to standard and to ensure stability of the grid. Then I'd expect at this point it'll be easy for all the cronies to get contracts to perform the mandatory inspections and "maintenance" of your "facility". Queue rampant bribery and corruption music.

Is this really likely? Probably not, it's just a crazy conspiracy theory on the internet after all. But I'll stick with my batteries thanks, as I don't need Mr. Sithole and his friends tramping dirt all over my new carpets when they come to check the meter! 

You are already expected to register. Weather you are on or off grid.

The diffs is one you sponsoring China the other your own pocket. Simple maths simple mind set.

[DDD]

Oh Brani,

My system cost me less than R5XK.  My panels cost me +/- R24K.  My inverter  10KW cost me R10K.

I do not have MPPT and I do not have fancy stuff.  Its simple, 2 x inverters R10K and R18K of panels.

Nothing Fancy.

My first in panerls I bought second hand. Somebody wanted to upgrade because they wanted an MPPT and bigger wattage.  I paid R1000 per panel and smiled all the way

My batteries cost me less than R350 my power supply I bought is made in USA.  My serious IC's are from TI and a USA supplier.
If I am not sure of the design I buy cheap from China have the proof of concept and then build with proper reliable components from USA.

Cheap and nasty simply not worth it.

The power supply is more expensive but I can't remember when last I replaced one.  Think I threw some 6 "other" versions away.

So lets do the maths.

2 x Inverters  R10K  do understand R5K each
Panels   +/-   R28K  20 panels
Total               R38K

Somewhere I still have my 3K3 48V inverter plus a 1K5 48V inverter.  Once again no MPPT's or fancy equipment direct from solar panel to batt and charged the batteries with a version  of my 3 phase meter and old charger combined. Somewhere you will find the graphs I posted on the forum ...

My savings from Nov 2020 is R191xx.  Thus far my out of pocket is R38 - R19 = R19.  That excludes my solar tracker.  Then I don't count the +/-  2 years I was on batteries and solar only.   COCT removed my meter and disconnected all cables as they thought I was stealing electricity.

Would love to know how many batteries and monitoring systems I will be able to buy with what I spend.

I do not know what the other side of the math's are but these are the facts.  Maybe you can help me understand what the other side is what I miss.

Tell me how many batteries will I be able to buy with R38 000.

Or what system can I buy for R38K and have the same result.

When I say you sponsor China its been more tongue in cheek than being serious. 

But as for electronic components there is day and night difference buying from TI, Motorols, Intel ...  Take for instance any Intel CPU has a life time guarantee.  I never ever had a TI CPU gone wonky on me and I used plenty.  Capacitors i prefer from Japan and ....

If I add that it should be +/- R1800 x 24 =  R43K   savings.

I can't add the 43K as the batteries put me back R18 000 minimum.  10 panels from the original system that I bought second hand is part of the first system.

The 3KW inverter cost me R2000 and the 1k5 cost me +/- R1200 if my memory serves me right

But I do not have fancy equipment, batteries, monitoring systems and cabling.  I have the basics.  24V x 16 amp power supply x 2 that I use to charge the batteries and 12 or 24V led lights.  Take note nothing fancy.

The number out ways all arguments. 

Simple and pure "somme" and I have no fancy equipment to brag about no name dropping.
If you look under my 4Kw wind gen you will  see all extremely basic I do my wiring. It does not cost a lot and impresses no one.

 

Very important I do not have a loan to pay off or a heavy withdrawal from an account.

Guess that does the talking for me.

No person have to follow my recommendations and most of it all I do not sell or recommend any brand name or equipment.

From what I read on this forum I have the cheapest system that saves the most and I do not sit in the dark when there is no Esdom.  My equipment is so cheap and basic I am actually shameful of referring to it as it almost costs nothing and looks like nothing but works mighty fine.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Erastus

[Calvin]

1 hour ago, Erastus said:

"buying from TI, Motorols, Intel"

followed by

"I have no fancy equipment to brag about no name dropping"

followed by

"I have the cheapest system that saves the most"

Edited April 29, 2021 by Calvin

[DDD]

5 hours ago, Brani said:

Second part, exporting to municipalities is a daylight robbery, excuse the pun. They buy from you at R0.7 and sell to your neighbor at R1.80 and or sell at night to you at R1.80 and new increase to come. We can go on forever about morality of subsidizing other users or the government.

if you would go grid tied with some storage, you would be able to still sell them all your excess and not buy from them, but again legal interpretation of what is net generator comes in play. You could easily go off grid completely and avoid service, network charges and so on. Not to mention 10k meter one has to buy to feed back. My municipality will allow me to feed back but it won’t pay anything. Thank you but no thank you. 

 

I can not argue what you say about SA Government, Courts and munics.  But the interesting part is that nationally they will be controlled by a new law. Lets take the City of CPT they took me to court spend 6 years on a law that is unconstitutional. I was found not guilty with a court order against the City.  The national law prevailed.
Therefore it is a step in the right direction.

Then we got to thank Zuma and the ANC for their corruption and dishonesty and Ramaposa for being a sweet talker and doing nothing re it.  This is what politics is all about. Compare them to Byden and Harris.  They did not get there because of corruption but because voters voting for them.  Very important voters voting for them.....

Now lets start talking about grid tied.

You get grid tied inverter for +/- R6K with a feed back sensor  R1k5 3 panels +/- R6K   Total R14K  If people are not been told that this is a cost effective way to start they will never start.  That will lead continual support of the corrupt.

When I started I was quoted R1xx K and was told not enough to be totally off grid.

What I do try and explain to people is that just start and take what ever you save and use that money.  When I advise people to start I say the following:
 

1. A basic timer for the geyser. (not fancy expensive electronics that do the same with another name)
2. Add water solar for the geyser
3. Gas stove  ( hob only) 
4. we all use led lights today
5. a small grid tied system and expand
6. When you saved enough install a meter and start getting paid.

This is the only mind set I am promoting.

If you want batteries and you can afford it go for it. Batteries are part of our everyday life and the rest about batteries I enjoy if I get you guys on the hook with those fancy batteries.

I prefer a good German made lead acid or the "cheapest" fancy lithium ... batt.

The reality is that for the man in the street if they follow this route they will be able to build a solar system from Eskom/munic money.

This is what I promote.   JUST STAAAAART and the little snow ball will create an avalanche sooner than later.

For batteries I had you on the hook you took the bait hook line and sinker now that you are on dry land I can throw you back in the ocean and maybe I convinced one person to start.  To start questioning why so expensive why all the equipment then it was worth it.

The batteries is just to give  you and others high blood pressure but the reality is people should start understanding that you can have a very small start and it will work and save and then you can expand.

Yes you are right I can help myself with electronics etc. but it makes life difficult to allow others to start if they read you must have this, that and the other.

 

 I will let you enjoy your batteries now.

 

If you want to get money away from the corrupt show people there is a more cost effective way to start and you don't need an expensive meter.

But get people to start

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Erastus

[PaulinNorthcliff]

3 hours ago, Erastus said:

I can not argue what you say about SA Government, Courts and munics.  But the interesting part is that nationally they will be controlled by a new law. Lets take the City of CPT they took me to court spend 6 years on a law that is unconstitutional. I was found not guilty with a court order against the City.  The national law prevailed.
Therefore it is a step in the right direction.

Then we got to thank Zuma and the ANC for their corruption and dishonesty and Ramaposa for being a sweet talker and doing nothing re it.  This is what politics is all about. Compare them to Byden and Harris.  They did not get there because of corruption but because voters voting for them.  Very important voters voting for them.....

Now lets start talking about grid tied.

You get grid tied inverter for +/- R6K with a feed back sensor  R1k5 3 panels +/- R6K   Total R14K  If people are not been told that this is a cost effective way to start they will never start.  That will lead continual support of the corrupt.

When I started I was quoted R1xx K and was told not enough to be totally off grid.

What I do try and explain to people is that just start and take what ever you save and use that money.  When I advise people to start I say the following:
 

1. A basic timer for the geyser. (not fancy expensive electronics that do the same with another name)
2. Add water solar for the geyser
3. Gas stove  ( hob only) 
4. we all use led lights today
5. a small grid tied system and expand
6. When you saved enough install a meter and start getting paid.

This is the only mind set I am promoting.

If you want batteries and you can afford it go for it. Batteries are part of our everyday life and the rest about batteries I enjoy if I get you guys on the hook with those fancy batteries.

I prefer a good German made lead acid or the "cheapest" fancy lithium ... batt.

The reality is that for the man in the street if they follow this route they will be able to build a solar system from Eskom/munic money.

This is what I promote.   JUST STAAAAART and the little snow ball will create an avalanche sooner than later.

For batteries I had you on the hook you took the bait hook line and sinker now that you are on dry land I can throw you back in the ocean and maybe I convinced one person to start.  To start questioning why so expensive why all the equipment then it was worth it.

The batteries is just to give  you and others high blood pressure but the reality is people should start understanding that you can have a very small start and it will work and save and then you can expand.

Yes you are right I can help myself with electronics etc. but it makes life difficult to allow others to start if they read you must have this, that and the other.

 

 I will let you enjoy your batteries now.

 

If you want to get money away from the corrupt show people there is a more cost effective way to start and you don't need an expensive meter.

But get people to start

 

100% in agreement with your sentiment.

I might differ on some of the steps, but that the best way to begin is simply to begin is right on the money.

Saving energy is always easier and a necessary first step than making energy. Then start small with a grid-linked system and learn what works for you from there.

I have passed down my first Growatt 2kW inverter to one of my staff members to play with.

Edited April 30, 2021 by PaulinNorthcliff

[Calvin]

29 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

Where is the regulation requiring us to register an off-grid system?

I believe that he is talking about the City of Cape Town's regulations.  I understand that they use aerial/satellite imagery to check for the presence of PV panels - off-grid systems must be registered so that you don't have to use the "Decorative Roof Shades" excuse .

See https://www.capetown.gov.za/City-Connect/Apply/Municipal-services/Electricity/apply-for-authorisation-to-install-a-small-scale-embedded-generation-system

 

[PaulinNorthcliff]

9 minutes ago, Calvin said:

I believe that he is talking about the City of Cape Town's regulations.  I understand that they use aerial/satellite imagery to check for the presence of PV panels - off-grid systems must be registered so that you don't have to use the "Decorative Roof Shades" excuse .

See https://www.capetown.gov.za/City-Connect/Apply/Municipal-services/Electricity/apply-for-authorisation-to-install-a-small-scale-embedded-generation-system

 

The CoCT is the next best thing to Big Brother. It's almost like they were trained by the Stasi. Heaven forbid they ever get real national power.

I suspect they are just flying a speculative kite. They need to be challenged in the courts.

[Calvin]

6 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

Note to self - Paint Disney characters onto roof so that use of aerial images is trademark infringement. 

Alternatively, a business opportunity to sell camouflage patterned PV panels....

[Yellow Measure]

6 hours ago, Erastus said:

I can not argue what you say about SA Government, Courts and munics.  But the interesting part is that nationally they will be controlled by a new law. Lets take the City of CPT they took me to court spend 6 years on a law that is unconstitutional. I was found not guilty with a court order against the City.  The national law prevailed.
Therefore it is a step in the right direction.

Then we got to thank Zuma and the ANC for their corruption and dishonesty and Ramaposa for being a sweet talker and doing nothing re it.  This is what politics is all about. Compare them to Byden and Harris.  They did not get there because of corruption but because voters voting for them.  Very important voters voting for them.....

Now lets start talking about grid tied.

You get grid tied inverter for +/- R6K with a feed back sensor  R1k5 3 panels +/- R6K   Total R14K  If people are not been told that this is a cost effective way to start they will never start.  That will lead continual support of the corrupt.

When I started I was quoted R1xx K and was told not enough to be totally off grid.

What I do try and explain to people is that just start and take what ever you save and use that money.  When I advise people to start I say the following:
 

1. A basic timer for the geyser. (not fancy expensive electronics that do the same with another name)
2. Add water solar for the geyser
3. Gas stove  ( hob only) 
4. we all use led lights today
5. a small grid tied system and expand
6. When you saved enough install a meter and start getting paid.

This is the only mind set I am promoting.

If you want batteries and you can afford it go for it. Batteries are part of our everyday life and the rest about batteries I enjoy if I get you guys on the hook with those fancy batteries.

I prefer a good German made lead acid or the "cheapest" fancy lithium ... batt.

The reality is that for the man in the street if they follow this route they will be able to build a solar system from Eskom/munic money.

This is what I promote.   JUST STAAAAART and the little snow ball will create an avalanche sooner than later.

For batteries I had you on the hook you took the bait hook line and sinker now that you are on dry land I can throw you back in the ocean and maybe I convinced one person to start.  To start questioning why so expensive why all the equipment then it was worth it.

The batteries is just to give  you and others high blood pressure but the reality is people should start understanding that you can have a very small start and it will work and save and then you can expand.

Yes you are right I can help myself with electronics etc. but it makes life difficult to allow others to start if they read you must have this, that and the other.

 

 I will let you enjoy your batteries now.

 

If you want to get money away from the corrupt show people there is a more cost effective way to start and you don't need an expensive meter.

But get people to start

 

It's a sensible strategy.

[Bobster.]

22 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

Ok, people, my vote is for no registration or licensing required, unless you feed into the grid, if all you are doing is supplementing commercial power with your own, or even run off the grid, it should have no requirements.

I don't export, but my system is connected to the grid. All grid-tied or hybrid systems will be. And once they connect to the grid they should stay in sync as regards voltage, phase and frequency no?

Also there needs to be anti-islanding so that if the supply is cut off, those systems disconnect from grid.

In which case the municipality or Eskom is surely entitled to lay down some requirements and check that these are met.

Most systems built from brand name components should behave corrrectly, but somebody, somewhere will either try some Heath-Robinson contraption or will bring in the cheapest, nastiest and most unencumbered by sensible features inverters that can be found and start selling them to unsuspecting householders.

[Bobster.]

12 hours ago, Brani said:

exporting to municipalities is a daylight robbery, excuse the pun. They buy from you at R0.7 and sell to your neighbor at R1.80 and or sell at night to you at R1.80 and new increase to come. We can go on forever about morality of subsidizing other users or the government.

if you would go grid tied with some storage, you would be able to still sell them all your excess and not buy from them, but again legal interpretation of what is net generator comes in play. You could easily go off grid completely and avoid service, network charges and so on. Not to mention 10k meter one has to buy to feed back. My municipality will allow me to feed back but it won’t pay anything. Thank you but no thank you. 

I agree with this. The reason I don't export - though I could - is that I would have to switch to a different tariff structure that would land me with 6 to 7 hundred rand a month in fixed fees, plus have a two-way meter installed at my expense, and then COJ pay you (IIRC) 0.67c per kw/h.

It doesn't add up for me. I would have to export a lot of power to break even on that deal. So better to not export.

I do have some sympathy for them regarding pricing. Everybody wants to have a situation like the UK where we have a grid, and, separately, generating companies that feed into that grid. Those companies expect to make a profit, and so there has to be a margin that is reserved for them and not for the likes of me with the few kw/h I could export each day.  A business that is going to generate into the grid has to have an incentive (read "be able to make a net profit").
 

[KLEVA]

Looked at it all, and not just the paperwork and stuff which is an overload for just a household consumer... At the end of the day I am not going to pay any new premium to the Municipality or Eskom. I have operated almost off-grid for almost 3 years without an issue, so my choice is to disconnect my Grid power.

I am going to have to get some additional equipment (since my wifes business involves baking), but we have not used Grid power for 3 years even with her business, and so far no major issues as long as we keep our power draw within spec.

I have applied to eThekwini to disconnect our power (this seems to confuse the few callers I have had), and had stupid people tell me about a R15k charge to disconnect - I just read the municipal bylaws straight back at them and they stop talking. After 4 weeks, I still can't get disconnected, even though I have switched off their mains. Tried to charge me for estimated usage of 11Kw last month which I refused.

It is a fight to go off-grid, but if you are sure your system and backups can do it, then keep fighting and don't let a municipality or Eskom force you into a position,

With eThekwini connection, my monthly cost is approx R1800. Without it should drop to R1200.

I am also busy with Water costs as I have 2 Jojo's for seperate use and use less than 1kL from eThekwini. If I manage this right I may be able to cut this off too (especially since our usage is less than 200l/person/day)

Some municipal bills I still have to pay (with "long teeth" in afrikaans)... Sewerage disposal, Garbage Disposal, and Rates. But everything other than Rates, can be reduced to almost nothing, and they aren't that expensive anyway.

My end game here is just to tell you all that you can get out of Eskom/Municipal costs, but you have to do it when your house is ready... Don't blindly say "f*cuk Eskom". You need to work it all out like you would a business decision to get the best outcome for your own environment. You might be a small consumer, but it can't hut to ask your municipality for a better price... After all they offer that to many businesses, and if you get the right operator, they may do the same for you.

 

[Steven Burnett]

On 2021/04/30 at 10:49 AM, Bobster said:

I agree with this. The reason I don't export - though I could - is that I would have to switch to a different tariff structure that would land me with 6 to 7 hundred rand a month in fixed fees, plus have a two-way meter installed at my expense, and then COJ pay you (IIRC) 0.67c per kw/h.

It doesn't add up for me. I would have to export a lot of power to break even on that deal. So better to not export.

I do have some sympathy for them regarding pricing. Everybody wants to have a situation like the UK where we have a grid, and, separately, generating companies that feed into that grid. Those companies expect to make a profit, and so there has to be a margin that is reserved for them and not for the likes of me with the few kw/h I could export each day.  A business that is going to generate into the grid has to have an incentive (read "be able to make a net profit").
 

it's almost like COCT design the SSEG tariffs backwards. Take a load of options, find the one that ensures it is  financially punitive to feed into the grid, then implement that.

 

[Bobster.]

6 minutes ago, Steven Burnett said:

it's almost like COCT design the SSEG tariffs backwards. Take a load of options, find the one that ensures it is  financially punitive to feed into the grid, then implement that.

 

I think all municipalities are in the same boat. They don't really want home owners to generate their own power, but they can't stop it (or don't want to be seen to be stopping it). They also don't want to see the independent generators that they and Eskom are courting scared off, and they see problems coming with too much power on the grid at the wrong time of day.

What they can do is tell you that OF COURSE you can have solar and sell your surplus back (which is the truth) but make sure you'd be crazy to do so (which is the whole truth*

I don't think this is an SAn thing BTW. I had a look at the regulations in the UK. There you can resell. You have to resell to the supplier you contracted to buy power from (remember they have multiple providers feeding into the grid). The resell tariff is not fixed by law other than that it must be above zero.



* certainly that's the case in Jhb. Is anybody in CT actually making a net profit out of solar?