Terms of Service (TOS)

1. This forum is not a democracy, the decision of the administrator and moderators is final.

2. You agree that the posts on this forum are to remain on topic, and that any post/topic/thread not following this policy may be removed by the moderators or administrator. You will not be notified about this removal, nor will the moderators or administrator enter into a debate about the validity of the removal of the thread or post.

3. You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material, text or graphic (including avatars and profile images) which is:

* intentionally false
* defamatory
* abusive
* vulgar
* hateful
* harassing
* obscene
* profane
* sexually orientated
* threatening
* invasion of any person's privacy
* adult material
* based on racism
* religious in nature (including symbology)
* political in nature (including symbology)
* in violation of South African or International law
* intended to cause or be the cause of friction between members
* insulting to any other forum member

Hi Manie. Reason : I noticed swearing in that small thread, It is toxic to everything. As Admin I will never delete useful information. But that thread does not adhere to the TOS.

Sincerely

Jason

2 minutes ago, Energy said:

I noticed swearing in that small thread

I apologise for that.

Oh damn, i also said Sh@t. Sorry

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

Thanks J for the clarification. I will repost agian that the tread is closed . Memebers can post there. I am not going to respond to any of the questions there

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

And then he realise that he just said it again. Could've meant shot though, who knows🤔

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

36 minutes ago, plonkster said:

... take a long walk off a short peer.

Not you too Plonk! No need to take a walk! 

 

@Chris Hobson - you sell yourself short on what you add to this forum. All matters battery and balancers and Axpert settings, I think those are very crucial and invaluable resources this forum has in you, that you share with gusto.

Adding to that, reading how you tried to defuse the situation, I cannot for the life of me see where you could have been more diplomatic or more respectful.  You tried all avenues trying to keeping it private.

Respect for that Chris. Don't go.

 

@Praveen sometimes it is fun to see how a thread goes pear shaped - popcorn time. We even have a fighclub here ... but no-one uses it. Or when it gets derailed by the fast becoming Infamous, thread derailer of all times, respectfully yours @plonkster, when he shares very informative titbits on cars and comparisons, philosophy or IT matters that pertain to a thread. Plonk, don't stop, ever, it makes for excellent reading!

Plonk and Chris both contribute, as many others, to make this forum special. Both of them are in my opinion (and the rest who disagrees don't count) quite solid guys who will bend over backwards here to help.

So, back to the point of this thread, if you find the docs, share, I will do the same here if I find them. I have emailed Voltronic already.

7 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Not you too Plonk! No need to take a walk! 

 

@Chris Hobson - you sell yourself short on what you add to this forum. All matters battery and balancers and Axpert settings, I think those are very crucial and invaluable resources this forum has in you, that you share with gusto.

Adding to that, reading how you tried to defuse the situation, I cannot for the life of me see where you could have been more diplomatic or more respectful.  You tried all avenues trying to keeping it private.

Respect for that Chris. Don't go.

 

@Praveen sometimes it is fun to see how a thread goes pear shaped - popcorn time. We even have a fighclub here ... but no-one uses it. Or when it gets derailed by the fast becoming Infamous, thread derailer of all times, respectfully yours @plonkster, when he shares very informative titbits on cars and comparisons or IT matters that pertain to a thread. Plonk, don't stop, ever, it makes for excellent reading!

Plonk and Chris both contribute, as many others, to make this forum special. Both of them are in my opinion (and the rest who disagrees don't count) quite solid guys who will bend over backwards here to help.

So, back to the point of this thread, if you find the docs, share, I will do the same here if I find them. I have emailed Voltronic already.

totally agree with TTT, don't go Chris!

42 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

tried to defuse the situation

No tried to inflate the situation. Like Paul and Chris said that there are PM's emails to sort things out to keep it private and to have a clear understanding !

All I have to share are a few facts that I have learnt in my many decades through life which are edging towards eight although thankfully not quite. So perhaps some may reason that I am already senile. All those who have expressed views on this thread, have probably at some time or another contributed to the welfare of others. But as an absolute believer in capitalism as opposed to socialism with it's terror, misery and death, I am convinced that capitalism can only function in a state of complete individual freedom which by definition prevents one to do harm unto others. @Energy this is economics, not politics and I am glad that individual freedom is not included in the list of prohibited subjects. That as a basis for discussion.

1. @Manie developed a commercial product that was and is probably still purchased by at least a fair number of the members of this forum and others. In the process he obviously spent many long hours of hard work of which the users of ICC-Pi are and will be reaping the benefits at a price acceptable to them. When members started requesting ICC for Windows, Manie knuckled down and produced that in record time and again some bought the program. It is a basic principle of sound business practice to protect your intellectual property. If one obtained critical and valuable information from another source, other than open source, which would be freely available in any event, you would be particularly foolish to hand it out like a bowl of soup at a soup kitchen. The Japanese say "Business is war" and see where it got them, in record time, after the devastation of WW2. There have been many demands for Manie to release his code as open source. Where would that have taken us users of ICC. Already a formal association between two developers did not last long. I would rather pay for the software and know there is some help at the end of a communications channel of whatever nature. It also denies Manie his right of freedom to decide what he does with his code. If he makes the wrong decisions, it may go the same route to oblivion of AICC which after all was a fine program. Solarmon also looked equally promising and it too bit the dust, or so it seems. If Manie chooses to improve his product over time, then the only other factor of price will determine the volumes sold. I for one hope he does continue development for purely selfish reasons of wanting to use an application that is enhanced on a continuing basis. As the outspoken Ayn Rand titled one of her books "The Virtue Of Selfishness" and then went on to prove it.

2.Those who have voluntarily contributed did so on their own accord. If they wanted compensation, they should have negotiated it before saying their bit. What on earth prevent the proponents of an open source program to start such a project. There has been enough demands for it but so far zero action, to my perhaps admittedly limited knowledge. I am of course only interested in the Axpert MKS range, which is what I have. Those who need something different, must drum up their own support.

3. Jay as moderator has the power to stop trends in any thread dead in their tracks if he believes them to be contrary to the intentions of the forum. It is to his credit that he allowed the many tsunamis in a teacup. But relentless efforts to bludgeon an opposing view into submission leads to the type of avoidable friction that we have often witnessed. If co-operative efforts, proposed by some, had any chance of success, The United Nations would be a shining example instead of a money wasting ineffectual fiasco, persistently wasting other people's money.

4. I realise that my views are contrary to some who have in the past willingly helped me and I hope in some small way I also managed to contribute something of value. But having differences of opinion does not make us enemies. It demonstrates the ability to actually think, a rarity in the world we live in, as well as maturity. Let us add respect for individual freedom to it, with emphasis on individual.

Now this may be the proverbial stone at a hornet's nest and if true, so be it.

All I have to share are a few facts that I have learnt in my many decades through life which are edging towards eight although thankfully not quite. So perhaps some may reason that I am already senile. All those who have expressed views on this thread, have probably at some time or another contributed to the welfare of others. But as an absolute believer in capitalism as opposed to socialism with it's terror, misery and death, I am convinced that capitalism can only function in a state of complete individual freedom which by definition prevents one to do harm unto others. @Energy this is economics, not politics and I am glad that individual freedom is not included in the list of prohibited subjects. That as a basis for discussion.
1. @Manie developed a commercial product that was and is probably still purchased by at least a fair number of the members of this forum and others. In the process he obviously spent many long hours of hard work of which the users of ICC-Pi are and will be reaping the benefits at a price acceptable to them. When members started requesting ICC for Windows, Manie knuckled down and produced that in record time and again some bought the program. It is a basic principle of sound business practice to protect your intellectual property. If one obtained critical and valuable information from another source, other than open source, which would be freely available in any event, you would be particularly foolish to hand it out like a bowl of soup at a soup kitchen. The Japanese say "Business is war" and see where it got them, in record time, after the devastation of WW2. There have been many demands for Manie to release his code as open source. Where would that have taken us users of ICC. Already a formal association between two developers did not last long. I would rather pay for the software and know there is some help at the end of a communications channel of whatever nature. It also denies Manie his right of freedom to decide what he does with his code. If he makes the wrong decisions, it may go the same route to oblivion of AICC which after all was a fine program. Solarmon also looked equally promising and it too bit the dust, or so it seems. If Manie chooses to improve his product over time, then the only other factor of price will determine the volumes sold. I for one hope he does continue development for purely selfish reasons of wanting to use an application that is enhanced on a continuing basis. As the outspoken Ayn Rand titled one of her books "The Virtue Of Selfishness" and then went on to prove it.
2.Those who have voluntarily contributed did so on their own accord. If they wanted compensation, they should have negotiated it before saying their bit. What on earth prevent the proponents of an open source program to start such a project. There has been enough demands for it but so far zero action, to my perhaps admittedly limited knowledge. I am of course only interested in the Axpert MKS range, which is what I have. Those who need something different, must drum up their own support.
3. Jay as moderator has the power to stop trends in any thread dead in their tracks if he believes them to be contrary to the intentions of the forum. It is to his credit that he allowed the many tsunamis in a teacup. But relentless efforts to bludgeon an opposing view into submission leads to the type of avoidable friction that we have often witnessed. If co-operative efforts, proposed by some, had any chance of success, The United Nations would be a shining example instead of a money wasting ineffectual fiasco, persistently wasting other people's money.
4. I realise that my views are contrary to some who have in the past willingly helped me and I hope in some small way I also managed to contribute something of value. But having differences of opinion does not make us enemies. It demonstrates the ability to actually think, a rarity in the world we live in, as well as maturity. Let us add respect for individual freedom to it, with emphasis on individual.
Now this may be the proverbial stone at a hornet's nest and if true, so be it.

Almost to scared to stick my head out and say, well said!

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

I will say it - well said and thanks @ebrsa.  Some very important and needed comments/thoughts.

59 minutes ago, ebrsa said:

If one obtained critical and valuable information from another source, other than open source, which would be freely available in any event, you would be particularly foolish to hand it out like a bowl of soup at a soup kitchen.

I also agree above, but need us to remember - at no stage was source code requested - the innocent request from a new member was for a protocol document (ie created by a manufacturer so people can interface with their devices).  Most have decent websites which allow for its download - Voltronic sadly is not a great website... we all know that.  At a time the source for AICC was published officially and available for download with permission.

MicroCare even sent me their internal test application and sample scripts for their devices... I was amazed.

I think deep breaths are in order.  I enjoy and learn alot here and want to feel like I can make requests (even if they are not responded to).

Thanks again all!

Regards

Here is my plan (attached as img).

Send the following parameters to cloud where they can be visualized.

 

1. Energy generated

2. Energy exported

3. Energy imported

--------------------

4. Inverter output load %

5. Inverter load active power

6. Inverter load apparent power

7. Inverter voltage

--------------------

8. Grid load demand

9. Grid load power

10. Grid voltage

11. Grid frequency

--------------------

12. Total battery charge current

13. Battery discharge current

14. Battery capacity

15. Battery Voltage

--------------------

16. PV input voltage

17. PV input power

 

Also, have plans to upload inverter warning status after completing the above.

@Praveen just to make sure. You are aware that this has already been done?

We just need to add Infini range of inverters.

 

5 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

@Praveen just to make sure. You are aware that this has already been done?

We just need to add Infini range of inverters.

I was looking for a similar solution. Did not find the right one which fits by use case better. Can you please point me to those projects? If it works, I will just contribute the code needed for this inverter.

1 hour ago, Praveen said:

I was looking for a similar solution.

Sent you a PM.

@Mark not to belabour the issue but if you go back in the forum history to the early days of AICC, you will find ample examples of demands for the code to be released in order for it to be a forum open source application. I believe @Manie was, at the time already part of the developmet team. It became somewhat heated then as it did on this thread. So I fear I am right, there have been demands for, at least some of Manie's code to be released as open source. See my memory still mostly works.

On 2/27/2017 at 9:20 PM, Praveen said:

If you have the protocol doc, please share the doc to me. Thanks in advance.

Hi @ebrsa

Agree with your comments below but I was only referencing the above request which I think is valid and one of the goals of the forum.

Praveen, I do not think there is an easy document that gives commands for USB. All protocol documents I have seen for Voltronic inverters are for communication over serial cable. 

Following thread may be useful for you to understand communication over USB. Have a look and hopefully you will be ready to share code regarding USB communication with these inverters.

 

3 hours ago, ebrsa said:

code to be released as open source.

I've been in the movement for 20 years now. I believe almost all source should be open source. It is in the same domain as mathematics. Imagine wanting to build a house, but before you can do so you have to pay license fees to the company who owns the Pythagoras algorithm you need to make sure that things are built at right angles. It's a silly example, but silly with good reason: There is a point when things become almost common place and the intellectual property of humanity at large.

I did however say that I believe ALMOST all source should be open. The labourer is worthy of his reward, and there is a case to be made for commercial products that need money to solve a problem.

There is however a natural process whereby the idea becomes common place, owned by humanity at large, a point past which you may well decide that your own time is worth more. At that point, I believe you should open source the application. Why? Because everyone using it then has a contingency plan. When the developer stops developing it, I can at least employ someone else to maintain it for me.

Example: Microsoft Office versus LibreOffice. There was a time when an office suite was a new thing, innovative, worth all the money people paid for it. Now we're long past that, word processing has become common place, kids are required to learn it at school (sometimes)... now it becomes downright evil to charge thousands of bucks for it.

I don't think ICC has reached that point yet, and back in the day I dropped out of that debate because I don't have a horse in that race... I mean an inverter of that make :-) But I would hope that one day, when the developer tires of the application, he'd release it.

This is at least one reason I love the blue company so much: an active drive to keep things open (except the critical bits which is of course locked away far and deep :-) ).

Just now, plonkster said:

I've been in the movement for 20 years now. I believe almost all source should be open source. It is in the same domain as mathematics. Imagine wanting to build a house, but before you can do so you have to pay license fees to the company who owns the Pythagoras algorithm you need to make sure that things are built at right angles. It's a silly example, but silly with good reason: There is a point when things become almost common place and the intellectual property of humanity at large.

I did however say that I believe ALMOST all source should be open. The labourer is worthy of his reward, and there is a case to be made for commercial products that need money to solve a problem.

There is however a natural process whereby the idea becomes common place, owned by humanity at large, a point past which you may well decide that your own time is worth more. At that point, I believe you should open source the application. Why? Because everyone using it then has a contingency plan. When the developer stops developing it, I can at least employ someone else to maintain it for me.

Example: Microsoft Office versus LibreOffice. There was a time when an office suite was a new thing, innovative, worth all the money people paid for it. Now we're long past that, word processing has become common place, kids are required to learn it at school (sometimes)... now it becomes downright evil to charge thousands of bucks for it.

I don't think ICC has reached that point yet, and back in the day I dropped out of that debate because I don't have a horse in that race... I mean an inverter of that make :-) But I would hope that one day, when the developer tires of the application, he'd release it.

This is at least one reason I love the blue company so much: an active drive to keep things open (except the critical bits which is of course locked away far and deep :-) ).

Someone I know offers support on the PICK OS system. One of the oldest operating systems ever. Existing before the internet, we know today, even existed. So they're an "open source house", so to speak - service big clients and get paid for the work they do, without a doubt. one of the apps they developed for many of their clients is pure open source. it gets given to the client, upon payment of said solution - source code and all, as per the open source license agreement they chose to work under. He mentioned to me the other day that they never had issues with clients trying to steal their code, since it's freely available. But client have been paying them for years and years for support and upgrades. some time ago Microsoft entered the IT market, and a few years later big players like SAP and VIP entered the South African market yet his clients couldn't be converted to these "better" systems. 

Walk into an FNB branch and the tellers use Ubuntu Linux. So does SARS. Ford still use UNIX for their CAD stations, last time I was there a couple years ago. Most spares shops run a POS system on Linux, and so does many chain stores. Who gets the money? Not Linus Torvals. Nor Richard Stallman, neither of which are poor and yet they have been active in the open source movement since it began. 

 

 

without stepping on toes here, I do believe though that the protocol documentation should be open to anyone's usage. It doesn't belong to anyone, or rather, since Voltronic (or MPP Solar) designed their equipment and wrote the document, they should be the only ones to decide if it's open or not. And this  goes for just about anything with a "public domain" piece of hardware. 

 

Manie, you have done a lot of work to write an application which a lot of people use, and are very thankful for. And I want to bet that most of those clients wouldn't give a rat's arse if you opened the source code or not. You already impressed them. You already won their trust. And you have already proven that you can support them. You have a winning combination here. Keep up the good work. 

 

1 minute ago, SilverNodashi said:

Someone I know offers support on the PICK OS system. One of the oldest operating systems ever.

Oh, first time I ran into that was -- you will not believe this -- in Gobabis in Namibia at an autoelectrical place! This was around 1995. My uncle (medical doctor) also ran it at his practice for many years before he retired. He had a whole office suite on it, developed in PICK BASIC (and he had the source code too!). It worked really well, the only problem we gradually started running into in the late 90s was that finding serial terminals that emulate ADDS Viewpoint was becoming very hard. Most terminals were VT100 based, and the problem with these are that they send cursor keys as a two-key sequence of which the first is escape. Sadly his office suite used escape for something else.

I believe the American Census bureau also use(d) it.

6 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

couldn't be converted to these "better" systems

I had a client who ran Brilliant Accounting (also released in 1995) well past 2010. The software started to crash because the Borland Pascal "crt" unit (which included delay()) would overrun the cpu registers when calibrating the delay loop on anything faster than 200Mhz, but we found a binary patch tool and extended it well past it's due date. His book-keeper tried to convert him to Pastel. I tried to point him to Quasar (which also has source access, for a very reasonable fee). He settled on Quickbooks in the end, which at least wasn't Pastel! :-)

But just to balance our argument, yet again, consider packages like Mathematica and Matlab. Should those be free? Given that the originals were really innovative (still is) and that at least in the case of Matlab the price is reasonable (Mathematica was always priced somewhat insanely), there is room for a commercial product here. The audience is small and someone has to pay (preferably the guy deriving the benefit). Even here you already see that the more commonly used features are dribbling down into free offerings, octave being a surprisingly good alternative to matlab and the Jupyter Notebook becoming fairly common place among analysts.

10 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Oh, first time I ran into that was -- you will not believe this -- in Gobabis in Namibia at an autoelectrical place! This was around 1995. My uncle (medical doctor) also ran it at his practice for many years before he retired. He had a whole office suite on it, developed in PICK BASIC (and he had the source code too!). It worked really well, the only problem we gradually started running into in the late 90s was that finding serial terminals that emulate ADDS Viewpoint was becoming very hard. Most terminals were VT100 based, and the problem with these are that they send cursor keys as a two-key sequence of which the first is escape. Sadly his office suite used escape for something else.

 

You'd be surprized to know that many spares shops and other shops in S.A. still use it, actively. These guys I know actively develop on, and for PICK. 

56 minutes ago, plonkster said:

This is at least one reason I love the blue company so much: an active drive to keep things open (except the critical bits which is of course locked away far and deep :-) ).

Like the R1000 cable? 

29 minutes ago, cvzyl said:

Like the R1000 cable? 

While I know you're kidding... the point I'm arguing is openness. You Don't have to buy that one. The specs are open... they will even tell you the part number used for the connection :-)

As I said before though, it's a 35 Euro cable. It shouldn't cost much more than about R350 this side, but resellers add profit and the exchange rate remains terrible.

Just pulling your leg plonkster, couldn't resist. So much seriousness going on on the forum...

I'm a closet Victron fan. I'm going to expand my solar system (from 3kW to 6kW) in the next couple of months. Plan on having 1.5kW of that on a Victron MPPT (150|35, maybe someone can recommend something else). That will be charging in parallel to the Infini which will have the remaining 4.5kW.

Cobus