5 minutes ago, Jamil Tulimat said:

Do you guys notice  flickering on neon or incandescent lamps 

because some times the flickering becomes noticeable to an annoying level !

Does it happen only when Grid input is available? Did you check if Frequency output is correct (50/60 Hz) on display and/or using an external ammeter? Do you use an AVR (voltage regulator) before/after your inverter?

Thanks for your feedback in your first point!

16 minutes ago, Tarek Yag said:

Does it happen only when Grid input is available? Did you check if Frequency output is correct (50/60 Hz) on display and/or using an external ammeter? Do you use an AVR (voltage regulator) before/after your inverter?

Thanks for your feedback in your first point!

No ofc it only happens when on inverter mode(sun and no sun), so no grid , no regulators. just pure chinese juice

all ratings seem fine the only thing i think about is that there is a problem in the output waveform , the only access to an osciloscope is in my college and they r not planning to lend me one 🥲 

On 11/5/2024 at 10:19 PM, Tarek Yag said:

any relatable context here with your 24 V one-time issue?

On 11/5/2024 at 9:41 PM, monsam said:

 

 

It’s a bit complicated to explain, as I’m dealing with multiple issues. My main problem is that my inverter shows a BP error during the day, beeps, and then returns to normal. Sometimes, it even shuts down at night. Based on my analysis, I suspect the issue is with the BMS communication to the inverter. When this communication interrupts, the inverter receives incorrect data about the battery status, possibly assuming it’s disconnected or at low voltage. I’ve tried resolving this with a software update, but the issue persists.

 

Regarding the 24V issue, so depends on the previous issue MAYBE the inverter might shut down when I’m asleep and then restart with sunlight. On one occasion, I only noticed it showed 24V in the app while providing output normally, but it wouldn’t charge. Later, I updated to the latest software, which temporarily resolved the issue (maybe because upgrading is essentially a restart), but neither Triple A maintenance team nor the seller could provide a permanent solution.

 

As for the fan noise, I still believe that my version (60.76) has the smartest fan logic, making it the quietest. However, the resellers (from the another local brand, which isn’t my inverter’s brand) refused to share the complete hex file with metadata, so guys you don’t seem like to add the file to the thread here 🥲, these resellers lack technical understanding; for example, they referred to the VFD inverter’s “soft start” feature as “soft star” in official marketing videos LOL —so it’s challenging to collaborate.

@pintopf @monsam

Edited November 6, 20241 yr by esmail-kassir
Typo

9 hours ago, esmail-kassir said:

Sometimes, it even shuts down at night. Based on my analysis, I suspect the issue is with the BMS communication to the inverter.

I'd highly recommend you to disconnect your BMS immediately and use manual charging settings instead for a while, just to make sure as soon as possible that your inverter and battery cells are all good! At least, this way you can have more time to diagnose and discuss/negotiate with your seller.

And this way, I think you might rule out the earlier incidents you had with your inverter.

9 hours ago, esmail-kassir said:

so guys you don’t seem like to add the file to the thread here 🥲

I'm sorry, it's not personal at all. it's just for the sake of the community's security. Though, I'm still planning to test it personally, and will let you know for sure if fans are slower than with version 60.95

9 hours ago, esmail-kassir said:

these resellers lack technical understanding; for example, they referred to the VFD inverter’s “soft start” feature as “soft star” in official marketing videos LOL —so it’s challenging to collaborate.

Wings, huh? I totally understand since I've seen examples of their marketing! Unfortunately, it's common here for reseller companies to be out of the field!!!

10 hours ago, esmail-kassir said:

Based on my analysis, I suspect the issue is with the BMS communication to the inverter.

I had similiar problems in communication between my inverter and the pylontech-batteries.

The display firmware update to version 25.12 fixed it.

57 minutes ago, pintopf said:

I had similiar problems in communication between my inverter and the pylontech-batteries.

The display firmware update to version 25.12 fixed it.

mine is 25.12 so I don't have any more thing to do

have you faced the exact same issue as mine ? 

2 hours ago, Tarek Yag said:

Wings, huh? I totally understand since I've seen examples of their marketing! Unfortunately, it's common here for reseller companies to be out of the field!!!

LOL 

 

2 hours ago, Tarek Yag said:

I'm sorry, it's not personal at all. it's just for the sake of the community's security. Though, I'm still planning to test it personally, and will let you know for sure if fans are slower than with version 60.95

I've did it already , 60.95 still noisy as its low fan level is somehow still high . but I forgot to test it with the decibel meter 

but regarding 60.76 

1 meter away from the inverter 

when no temperature  40 to 45 decibel 

when high temperature or charging or providing more than 3000 W output :65 decibel 

 

on the couch in the same room where  the inverter is located

when no temperature 30 decibel ( it could be the ambient noise )

when high temperature or charging or providing more than 3000 W output :50 decibel 

please note that Decibel could be misleading as it is not intuitive, for example  40 is quite and could be considered as your 0  and 60 could be unboreable for you 

14 hours ago, esmail-kassir said:

Regarding the 24V issue, so depends on the previous issue MAYBE the inverter might shut down when I’m asleep and then restart with sunlight

 

If your inverter starts at the first attempt in the morning? 

Without grid and power-button "off", my inverter often destroy the EEPROM Data at the interupted boot attempts, as i showed yesterday

 

 

2 hours ago, esmail-kassir said:

have you faced the exact same issue as mine ? 

Not the same, but with the older display-firmware my battery lost sometimes (1 - 2 times per day?) the conection to the inverter, the battery symbol at the display stop blinking, and the warning shows.

After i installed the new firmware, this never happens again. (or it happens, if i'm not in front of the inverter?)

On 2024/11/05 at 7:41 PM, monsam said:

I think that it could be that on cloudy dawns the starting voltage is reached very soon but that there really is not enough amperage for a correct start of the screen, and that on sunny days there is enough amperage. I also think this because the 5 panels each have a Vmp of 44.68V, a Voc of 53.99V, with an Imp of 13.43A, in a configuration of 14m (7m+7m) of 6mm DC cable of the panels, and it starts to get colder in the morning when we are in the mountains. That is, there is almost no voltage drop which improves the start of the inverter but without amperage.

I have not really noted how it dawned each day, but I sincerely believe that this pattern coincides. It could be this, or that the inverter is broken.  

The thought about the lack of voltage drop and the numbers was very cool. However, I can already tell you that it must not be because of the low voltage drop, and it must be more because of what @pintopf say.

In any case, I'll tell you. I added more resistance to the solar panel circuit. I put 60 more meters of 6mm cable. A total of around 75 meters of cable in the DC circuit of the solar panels. It did not increase the voltage drop enough, but I hoped it would do something. Additionally, the day dawned very nice and clear.

And the inverter started indicating 26V.   I can't find or understand why sometimes, although rarely, it does start the first time at dawn in 48V mode, but most times it doesn't.

 

On 2024/11/06 at 11:31 AM, pintopf said:

Every attempt causes an interrupt in the start-up procedure, and sometimes the EEPROM becames corrupt. You will see it in Watchpower, Energy-Mate or Dessmonitor under "Alarm"

I've had EEPROM errors in the past. Now I'm going more along those lines of thinking. That is, something went wrong due to intermittent, low power starts, and now it won't start properly except for some specific conditions. However, now it doesn't show any EEPROM errors when starting in 24V mode.

I'm hoping that overwriting the display firmware will fix the problem, just for the sake of overwriting it. If it fixes it, I'll avoid starts with just the solar panels unattended in the morning.

 

On 2024/11/06 at 7:58 PM, Jamil Tulimat said:

1- The only thing similar to this that i noticed is when i put the inverter mode on UPS it repeatedly draws about 1Amps AC on and off and on the battery end at the same time it cycles between drawing 1.5A at 25v which is the normal no-load draw to 0.4A and then again to 1.5 and so on.... 

I changed it back to APL and it stopped doing those weird draw patterns.

Thanks @Jamil Tulimat. You've given me the idea of testing the UPS mode. It hadn't occurred to me. I'll check how it behaves.

However, do any of you know or have measured whether your inverters behave in a similar way in 4Kw or 6Kw? As @Coulomb said, it seems reasonable that it uses reactive energy, but I'd like to compare with the rest of you, if any of you have the data, whether so much reactive energy is normal in these models, or is it a particular case of my inverter.

Edited November 8, 20241 yr by monsam

On 2024/11/08 at 9:21 AM, monsam said:

However, do any of you know or have measured whether your inverters behave in a similar way in 4Kw or 6Kw?

I testet it at my 4kW VMIII and the result is: 55W with depressed button and 65W with pressed button.

My mode was "SBU"

I switch an measure the grid with an "shelly 1 PM"

 

Why do you not use a automatic power transfer switch to solve your problem? I think, that this mode (without battery) is not optimal for the inverter.

I use this switch: (see photo)

 

 

Edited November 10, 20241 yr by pintopf

4 hours ago, pintopf said:

I testet it at my 4kW VMIII and the result is: 55W with depressed button and 65W with pressed button.

My mode was "SBU"

I switch an measure the grid with an "shelly 1 PM"

 

Why do you not use a automatic power transfer switch to solve your problem? I think, that this mode (without battery) is not optimal for the inverter.

Hi @pintopf, thanks for the information about the measurement with the "Shelly 1 PM".

Regarding the use of an ATS, that is how I currently have it. I have the grid and the solar panels system (inverter *edited*) connected to the ATS in case I need to switch to the grid because the batteries run out in a long series of bad days. I did the tests about bypass without battery, solar panels, or loads, to eliminate noises that could alter my measurements.

However, my main objective is to determine if the inverter is in a suitable state or is damaged, since I still have time to return it and get another new unit. Likewise, I like to check the operating base of the equipment so that I can have the knowledge in case something happens one day.

This issue began for me when I was interested in having the inverter connected to the grid with a plug located before the ATS. That way I could use the "Back to Grid Capacity" feature, and at a time when at night or if there is no one in the house (the ATS I have is actually manual), the Inverter's ByPass mode is activated, without having to use the ATS.

However, I don't like that in order to have this occasional bypass feature, the inverter is using 2000VA 24x7 (40W of real consumption of the inverter). I could live without this feature, and I probably will, and I think that the inverter is still worth it in terms of quality-price, and with the ATS I would have it solved. But in any case I do want to clear up any doubts about this operation, whether it is normal or not, whether to change the inverter or not, or keep it and know what to do.  

Edited November 8, 20241 yr by monsam

Hopefully you use a ATS for high DC voltage for your solarpanels, otherwise ist very risky to switch high DC voltages, long sparks occur.

I live in Berlin/Germany and have the same problem like you, on some days my inverter produces less energy then he put into the battery.

My goal was to save the energy, consumed at nigt by the inverter. (40-50W for my 4000W model)

My solution was a small circuit with an ESP32 controller, wich communicates with the inverter via RS232. This ESP32 communicated via WiFi (MQTT protocol) with my house-automatisation. The main program on the house-automatisation is in "node red" programmed. There i programmed the round power button to be (virtually*) pressed 30 minutes before sunrise. After sunrise, i switch the button off, this saves around 20W.

* I tapped the connecting cable between the display and the device in order to connect an optocoupler in parallel with the switch, which is triggered by the ESP

Edited November 8, 20241 yr by pintopf

54 minutes ago, pintopf said:

Hopefully you use a ATS for high DC voltage for your solarpanels, otherwise ist very risky to switch high DC voltages, long sparks occur.

I live in Berlin/Germany and have the same problem like you, on some days my inverter produces less energy then he put into the battery.

My goal was to save the energy, consumed at nigt by the inverter. (40-50W for my 4000W model)

My solution was a small circuit with an ESP32 controller, wich communicates with the inverter via RS232. This ESP32 communicated via WiFi (MQTT protocol) with my house-automatisation. The main program on the house-automatisation is in "node red" programmed. There i programmed the round power button to be (virtually*) pressed 30 minutes before sunrise. After sunrise, i switch the button off, this saves around 20W.

* I tapped the connecting cable between the display and the device in order to connect an optocoupler in parallel with the switch, which is triggered by the ESP

I think our use case is very similar.

In my case the inverter consume about 80-100W from the battery at night with no loads, with a consume about 20W-40W more from house loads. I prefer to save the 80W-100W of inverter consumption from inverter at night because I don't have a very large amount of batteries and panels, so I ensure 16-24 hours consumption the next day if it's a cloudy day.

That's why I tried the inverter Bypass system, but after testing and observations I preferred to put an AC ATS, and turn off the inverter with the metal button, that is, to keep it in charger mode and thus turn off at night and turn on by itself when there is solar energy in the morning.

So the current use case is, at night I transfer the house loads to the general electrical grid, and put the inverter in charger mode. In the morning the inverter starts up by itself when it receives solar energy, so I transfer the loads from the house to the panels.

However, the 24V mode problem started.

Since this problem started, my goal now is to leave the inverter on at night. That's why I'm still focusing on the reactive energy consumption when I plug in the inverter and if I can draw any conclusions then use it in some way at night. I'm also thinking of putting another battery, although it pains me that it would be almost exclusively keeping the inverter on at night. However, an extra battery would be cheaper than changing to a Victron system, which would be my second choice, or even a Deye, which would be my third choice.

A Shelly 1 PM switch like the one you mentioned before to use with the mobile phone would make life easier. And a truly automatic ATS instead of a manual one like I have too.

As you mention, the goal would be to find a way to automatically detect the state of the batteries and panels and then activate the ATS of the house loads and turn off the inverter, or to make the inverter plug work so that it works with the electrical grid.

Regarding the high voltage of the DC ATS, I have installed an AC ATS to switch the house loads to the mains or to the AC Out network of the inverter. I have not installed an ATS for DC in the panels, although they do have their magnetothermic and overvoltage protectors.

2 hours ago, pintopf said:

My solution was a small circuit with an ESP32 controller, wich communicates with the inverter via RS232. This ESP32 communicated via WiFi (MQTT protocol) with my house-automatisation. The main program on the house-automatisation is in "node red" programmed. There i programmed the round power button to be (virtually*) pressed 30 minutes before sunrise. After sunrise, i switch the button off, this saves around 20W.

Your solution seems very fine and elegant to me. I suppose you use a system like HomeAssistant.

I would consider something like this in my own house, but I think it would be too much for the house where my father actually lives. My father does understand electricity, although not some things about solar panels. So I have helped him install the solar system in isolation from the grid without dying in the attempt.

An automated system that requires computer systems would be too much.

I plan to install a solar installation in my own house in the future and a system with HomeAssistant when I move near my father. I suppose I am looking for something similar to what I suppose you have set up.

For my father, you made me think this morning about looking for some kind of DC switch or magnetothermic with a programmable schedule, and putting it in the battery wiring. And changing the manual ATS for a truly automatic and also programmable one.

At night, before going to sleep, at a reasonable hour, I would transfer the loads to the general electrical grid, and about 5 minutes later, the programmed switch for the batteries would break the circuit with the inverter. The inverter would turn off as it had no other source of energy.

In the morning, another timed schedule would close the circuit from the batteries to the inverter, before dawn, and thus the inverter would start well with the batteries, and later the ATS would automatically transfer the loads to the solar system.

What do you think?

Edited November 8, 20241 yr by monsam

2 hours ago, monsam said:

In my case the inverter consume about 80-100W from the battery at night with no loads

This is the reason, why i bought the 4000W Version, it consumes "only" 45-50W in standby. 

2 hours ago, monsam said:

the goal would be to find a way to automatically detect the state of the batteries and panels

My solution for the batterys was an another ESP (ESP8266) to read out the status of the batterys. I found the project at github: click!

It produces also MQTT-Messages and creates a simple web-interface.

For the solarpanel i found no switch for the 400V  without  great losses. The chinese DC-relais are often fakes (AC-Relais labeled as DC-relais) and the solid-states eats too much energy for my case.

 

In this bad wheather i use the VMIII only to charge my batterys (if its not so gray as today ;-).

If my battery has enough energy, i discharge them with a Hoymiles HM600 Inverter in the normal grid. His efficency was between 90-95% and it is fanless.

I control the HM600 over my third ESP in my cellar, this project i also found at the internet. 

My house automatisation ("Homematic" from ELV) control all this devices via MQTT via Node-Red.

 

I agree with you, that this solution is only for your own use, it is not a good idea to install it on your father.

 

 

1 hour ago, monsam said:

In the morning, another timed schedule would close the circuit from the batteries to the inverter

You have to design the relais to the maximum current, which is possible from your batteries, this are 120A, this relais are big an have noticeable energy-consumption. Otherwise ist the risk, to burning your house down too high.

 

Ther are some risks in the use of solar-inverters:

The high DV- Voltage at the solar-input and the high current at the battery in/output.

Don`t underestimate that.

Here is a small video, which shows this effect at only 60 V, demonstrated in an opened AC circuit-breaker.

Sorry, it is in german, byt the interesting part need no words and is shown from minute 2:45.

Video! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 20241 yr by pintopf

Thank you @monsam and @pintopf for your contribution.

You went way off-topic here in this thread, please open a new thread to continue your discussion. I'll contact moderartors asking to help move your off-topic posts to your new thread.

Kindly,

Hello. This morning I've been tinkering with the inverter. I've already had a chance to take a photo of it. I'm updating the screen firmware and testing its operation.

Below is a photo of the inverter and its label:

 

 

As I mentioned in a previous message, I have already updated the inverter to version 60.10, but the screen was still on version 25.12. Today I took the opportunity to update to version 25.15.

The update went well the first time and everything worked correctly. Tomorrow we will see if it has served to correct the problem of starting in 24V mode.

Regarding the other 2000W problem, which did not improve with the update to 60.10, I have tried to see the behavior by changing the "AC Input Range" parameter from APL "Appliance" to UPS. When changing to UPS, the consumption dropped radically to about 325VA.

So, with APL and the round metal button not pressed, the consumption from the grid is around 40W, with the round metal button pressed, the consumption rose to 2000VA.

Now, with UPS, with the round metal button not pressed, the inverter consumption from the grid is around 40W, with the round metal button pressed, the consumption increases to 325VA. And if I turn on the batteries in SBU mode, the consumption from the grid drops to 0W. This is the desired and expected behavior for me.

The software updates of the inverter have not affected this behavior, and I believe that the inverter works correctly at this point, and I am just discovering how the parameters affect the behavior of the inverter.

 

When I have more data on whether the screen update has positively affected the 26V start, I will continue to report.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 20241 yr by monsam

On 2024/11/08 at 8:57 PM, monsam said:

But in any case I do want to clear up any doubts about this operation, whether it is normal or not,

The 325 VA is about what I'd expect to see. The 2000 VA is certainly not normal. I'd say that you have a problem with the board that implements the UPS (versus APL) AC input range (I can't recall the exact name, perhaps they call it a parallel board, which is very confusing).

On 2024/11/08 at 8:57 PM, monsam said:

whether to change the inverter or not,

I think it's worth getting that board replaced.

38 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

I think it's worth getting that board replaced.

Yes, I will return the inverter y replace it with a new one.

 

14 hours ago, monsam said:

When I have more data on whether the screen update has positively affected the 26V start, I will continue to report.

Today, The inverter started in 24V mode again. The MCU upgrade didn't fix the problem.

I read in this thread, that with the firmware 60.76 the fans are much more silent, thats way i testet it today. 

The version 60.95 was replaced by 60.76 an i measured the noise under no load condition, with 230V output switched on.

Heatsink temperature was in both cases 35°C at 18°C ambient temperature.

My measurements in 1m distance from the inverter:

FW: 60.76   44dB

FW: 60.95   44dB

 

I heard also no difference.

Edited November 10, 20241 yr by pintopf

Regarding the 60.10 FW ... I have a problem with the charging priority. It looks like it's stuck to Solar first even when program 16 is set to SNU (Solar and Utility Charging), so in the morning when the sun rises, the inverter switches automatically to Solar charging only, even when the grid is available. I tried to reset the settings and even reflashed the firmware again, but it was still the same.

The problem is at noon and when it is heavily cloudy and the grid is available, it keep charging from solar panels only with low power without charging from the grid.

At night, it charges from the grid when there is no solar power.

Does anyone have the same issue?

31 minutes ago, AMalakani said:

Regarding the 60.10 FW ... I have a problem with the charging priority. It looks like it's stuck to Solar first even when program 16 is set to SNU (Solar and Utility Charging), so in the morning when the sun rises, the inverter switches automatically to Solar charging only, even when the grid is available. I tried to reset the settings and even reflashed the firmware again, but it was still the same.

The problem is at noon and when it is heavily cloudy and the grid is available, it keep charging from solar panels only with low power without charging from the grid.

At night, it charges from the grid when there is no solar power.

Does anyone have the same issue?

I saw this behavior in all versions I have tested. I’m not sure if there’s a firmware version that behaves differently. That’s why people tend to use the programmed timed charging source priority feature

2 hours ago, pintopf said:

I read in this thread, that with the firmware 60.76 the fans are much more silent, thats way i testet it today. 

The version 60.95 was replaced by 60.76 an i measured the noise under no load condition, with 230V output switched on.

Heatsink temperature was in both cases 35°C at 18°C ambient temperature.

My measurements in 1m distance from the inverter:

FW: 60.76   44dB

FW: 60.95   44dB

 

I heard also no difference.

Interesting! When I tested version 60.95 under low load, it was noisy! Could you attach the version you tested? Note that version 60.76 is perfect and usually stays at 45 dB most of the time.

 

Could you test the temperature under load and provide us with a graph over the day? How did you manage to obtain the temperature values?