Someone at Eksdom had a brain fart this is pure madness...

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/575073-big-warning-for-solar-power-users-in-south-africa.html?source=newsletter

 

Edited December 15, 20241 yr by Demo

Glad I'm off their grid since 2020 already...

Ppl will need to make choices here. My meter was also taken because I had not recharged in over 3 months. Actually glad they took it, made me realise that getting another battery was less hassle than dealing with them. 

9 hours ago, Steve87 said:

Ppl will need to make choices here.

Depending on the size of the existing Solar setup, the best choice is likely to wave them crooks goodbye...

In Cape Town, during winter months, we can have a week of rain/drizzle/cloud cover, to cover that period, it would be prohibitively expensive to install enough batteries.

A generator should be good enough to cover such periods. I think it's impossible to cover 5 days of no power generation with battery storage. But buying diesel or petrol is a measured and planned contingency. In contrast dealing with extortion and constantly moving goal posts is unmeasurable. 

The same must be said about Rand water. We have have been massively affected by the Big pump shut down that has taken place. It's not the first nor the last time it will affect us. Then dealing once again with City of Johannesburg is a nightmare. We reported a major water leak on our main meter Incomer before the meter so wasn't costing me anything except the guilt of wasted water. They took 5 visits & 3 weeks the fix it. That was humbling. How many of these water leaks are out there. I honestly couldn't believe it. 

From a business perspective that model of wastage & careless attitude doesn't sustain too well. I can't comment on other regions but my region of the West Rand is not functioning too well. But batteries to last as well as a Gene is out mainstay. Over panelling also helps a lot so that on the worst of days you at least carry the load. A generator is a noisey solution that I haven't had to make use of yet. I just keep her ready in case by starting her once a week and run her on load for 15mins or so. Not ideal but something to keep the engine in a relatively good running state. 

1 hour ago, Tariq said:

In Cape Town, during winter months, we can have a week of rain/drizzle/cloud cover, to cover that period, it would be prohibitively expensive to install enough batteries.

Like @Steve87 wrote, a generator for the times you have 5 cloudy days, if you can have battery to last you 24+ hours, you can probably then run the generator, depending on its capacity, for 3 or 4 hours to fill up the batteries again once a day and life goes on. If you are on CoCT, then the fees thrown around aren't as mindblowingly idiotic, R 50k? really that would buy 15+kWh's worth of battery capacity if you DIY, probably nearly 30kWh, if you don't you probably would still be able to cobble together 15kWh's worth of battery... and the cheapest add on is still over panelling, but yes, battery capacity is something that one cannot get away from, one can only reduce ones usage, possibly to make it fit with a smaller stored energy capacity.

Advice I have from local (to me) estate agents that in a residential suburb, going off grid is not a good idea. Or it may be, but only up until the time you want to dispose of the property. Then you will have to take a big knock, or accept that your property has limited appeal because it is not connected to the grid, and to get that connection reinstated is going to cost money and be a big hasssle. Some buyers might look at you system and decide it will support them, but they will still have to buy a gennie for backup and start putting money aside for replacement batteries as those won't last forever.

I wonder too about access to on-line monitoring tools. I've already set mine up with an email address other than the one I use for my personal mail, but I could only do that with the help of Goodwe. This is a potential problem whether you are off grid or not.

I know... I did the SSEG thing (didn't cost anywhere near the figures being tossed around by MBB) so I sold my soul to the devil. But there are potential downsides to being off grid. Having solar is a good thing (though not as good now that there's light at the end of the load shedding tunnel), so I offer all of this in the hope that folks don't potentially devalue their property.

The real problem, it seems to me, is that regulations have not been publicised. OK... the exact wording of all the specifications that must be met for a COC to be issued is not publicised, but we all know that a COC is necessary. Despite these regulations having been in place for some years, their actual existence has not been well publicised. If it had, then perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation.

Regarding the estate agents advice, if this guavament keep on shifting the goal posts and thumb suck this crazy rules and regulations, in a couple of years off grid  properties will definitively be worth more than the grid tied ones...(if there is still a cost effective grid) Let's all hope this will not happen.

 

1 hour ago, Demo said:

Regarding the estate agents advice, if this guavament keep on shifting the goal posts and thumb suck this crazy rules and regulations, in a couple of years off grid  properties will definitively be worth more than the grid tied ones...(if there is still a cost effective grid) Let's all hope this will not happen.

 

I don't consider these rules to be sudden (they're not) or a thumb suck,  and the advice is as things currently stand. Long term it may swing the other way, and then the advice will change.

Question: Does a property not connected to the grid but still running on 230V AC require a COC? 

Edited December 16, 20241 yr by Bobster.

2 hours ago, Bobster. said:

Does a property not connected to the grid but still running on 230V AC require a COC? 

Probably from your insurance only?

3 hours ago, Bobster. said:

Question: Does a property not connected to the grid but still running on 230V AC require a COC? 

Very much so!! A COC is done to ensure that your electrical installation is safe for your family and property. Alternative generated power is just as lethal as utility power. Many tests are done to ensure that the electrical system on your property is safe. If you don't have TN ( earth/neutral) coming from a supply transformer entering your property then you need to have a proper earthing system protecting your premises not just 1 or 2 earth stakes and bobs your uncle, you need to install an earth pit and it must be measured from your protective devices to your earth point to be within legal limits( earth loop impedance and neutral loop impedance). So yes you need a coc for off grid and not just a piece of paper to satisfy your insurance broker but a proper coc with test report to ensure your electrical system is safe.

23 hours ago, Steve87 said:

A generator should be good enough to cover such periods. I think it's impossible to cover 5 days of no power generation with battery storage. But buying diesel or petrol is a measured and planned contingency. In contrast dealing with extortion and constantly moving goal posts is unmeasurable.

Even a small 900w generator like I have helps for those cloudy days.
I have been semi off-grid for almost 4 months now, during the 4 months I had to connect to the grid for 6 hours just to boost up the batteries when we had a few cloudy days here in cpt.

I was too lazy to start up my generator 🤣

That said, when/if eskom comes knocking and enforcing their rules, it will be a breeze/pleasure to stop the laziness

In the meantime I am also busy installing another 12 panels and am halfway saving for 2 extra batteries, that will bring me to a point where I can comfortably tell eskom where to get off.

20 hours ago, Bobster. said:

Question: Does a property not connected to the grid but still running on 230V AC require a COC? 

 @TaliaB makes a lot of sense 

Edited December 17, 20241 yr by Steve87

19 hours ago, TaliaB said:

Very much so!! A COC is done to ensure that your electrical installation is safe for your family and property. Alternative generated power is just as lethal as utility power. Many tests are done to ensure that the electrical system on your property is safe. If you don't have TN ( earth/neutral) coming from a supply transformer entering your property then you need to have a proper earthing system protecting your premises not just 1 or 2 earth stakes and bobs your uncle, you need to install an earth pit and it must be measured from your protective devices to your earth point to be within legal limits( earth loop impedance and neutral loop impedance). So yes you need a coc for off grid and not just a piece of paper to satisfy your insurance broker but a proper coc with test report to ensure your electrical system is safe.

I understand why one should want a COC actually supported by a proper inspection and any necessary remedial work. I was wondering it's a legal necessity for properties with no connection at all to the grid. I recall a house I saw in the UK which, many years ago, had a system in which a water wheel turned a generator which charged a bank of 12V batteries, and so the house had DC power available for a certain number of hours a day. This is an extreme example and certainly predates the UK's national grid. 

Though as already noted, you're not likely to get much in the way of insurance unless the insurer is satisified that the house or those inside it won't burn.

On 2024/12/17 at 11:47 AM, Bobster. said:

I understand why one should want a COC actually supported by a proper inspection and any necessary remedial work. I was wondering it's a legal necessity for properties with no connection at all to the grid............

8.1.3

NOTE In South Africa, it is a statutory requirement that every user or lessor of an
electrical installation shall have a valid Certificate of Compliance (CoC) for every
such installation. A CoC will only be valid when it is accompanied by a test report
in the format of the test report in 8.7.

 

From the definitions in SANS10142;

3.33
electrical installation
machinery, in or on any premises, that is used for the transmission of
electrical energy from a point of control (see 3.56) to a point of
consumption (see 3.55) anywhere on the premises, including any article
that forms part of such an installation, irrespective of whether or not it is part
of the electrical circuit, but excluding
a) any machinery of the supplier that is related to the supply of electricity on
the premises,
b) any machinery that is used for the transmission of electricity of which the
voltage does not exceed 50 V, where such electricity is not derived from
the main supply of a supplier, and
c) any machinery that transmits electrical energy in telecommunication,
television or radio circuits

 

So if you have an off grid house and the voltage generated or distributed within the premises is 50v or less then you would be exempt from a CoC because it would no longer fulfil the definition of an 'electrical installation' under the exception provided in the definitions 3.33 paragraph b. In short regardless of whether you have an Eskom supply connection or not your house will require a CoC and all the electrical installation standards will still apply to any 230v electrical installation you have.