Can anyone advise if solar cables and ac cables can run in same condute or ducting. I was always under impression that ac and dc must be seperated, but is that still the case with todays quality of insulation on cables.

If this is a topic that was been discussed already in other threads, then please direct me to those threads.

3 minutes ago, SBBS said:

Can anyone advise if solar cables and ac cables can run in same condute or ducting.

Its not really allowed, and for safety purposes not advisable. Rather put them in different conduits from the start and save money in the long run. I had to redo my system to split them up and paid some serious school fees. 

3 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Its not really allowed, and for safety purposes not advisable. Rather put them in different conduits from the start and save money in the long run. I had to redo my system to split them up and paid some serious school fees. 

Thank you for the reply. Can you perhaps elaborate on the type of problems (school fees) you experienced by running the cables together. 

Almost all photos I have ever seen on installations. There is only one set of trunking. So most installations today run ac and dc cabeling together in same trunking, for at least some portion of the cabeling.

What would you suggest would be acceptable (if any) lenght to run ac and dc together. Specially the portion at the between battery and Inverter is sometime unavoidable to run in seperate trunking.

 

2 hours ago, SBBS said:

Thank you for the reply. Can you perhaps elaborate on the type of problems (school fees) you experienced by running the cables together. 

Almost all photos I have ever seen on installations. There is only one set of trunking. So most installations today run ac and dc cabeling together in same trunking, for at least some portion of the cabeling.

What would you suggest would be acceptable (if any) lenght to run ac and dc together. Specially the portion at the between battery and Inverter is sometime unavoidable to run in seperate trunking.

 

That's cause the installers skimped on the installation in order to get the deal. SANS ragulations prohibit running AC and DC cabling in the same conduit. At worse it could cause some magnetic interference since AC and DC cables are generally not shielded and AC cables put out a bit more EMI. That in itself won't cause problems but if a DC cable in the conduit gets hot and melts it could cause a fire.

You won't get a COC if they run in the same trunk or conduit.

Even if the battery and inverter is within 1m of each other, you should always try and run them in their own trunking or conduit.

Edited April 14, 20197 yr by SilverNodashi

For reference

SANS 10142-1 section 6.1.10

  Conductors that form part of a d.c. installation shall not be run in the same wireway as conductors that form part of an a.c. installation.

5 minutes ago, Jaws said:

For reference

SANS 10142-1 section 6.1.10

  Conductors that form part of a d.c. installation shall not be run in the same wireway as conductors that form part of an a.c. installation.

There we go

1 minute ago, Jaws said:

Conductors that form part of a d.c. installation shall not be run in the same wireway as conductors that form part of an a.c. installation.

are the conductors allowed to terminate in the same DB board? In my case the DC cables from the panels are routed in their own conduit but end up in the main DB board. When I build the house I made sure I have lots of spare conduit running from the roof to the DB board.

One can achieve a neat installation using trunking that has an internal divider to separate AC and DC cabling. This does not provide any EMI/noise protection between cables but does give suitable electrical isolation/separation.  One must however plan the installation so that the AC and DC sides remain separated along the full route.

AC-DC stock a 110x50mm Trunking - see https://www.efapel.pt/en/products/cable-trunkings/10-series-distribution-cable-trunkings

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by NigelL

Note that I sandwiched a 16mm thick board (with some gaps) between the back of the trunking and the wall. This allows the Battery cabling to pass neatly behind the trunking!

50 minutes ago, NigelL said:

One can achieve a neat installation using trunking that has an internal divider to separate AC and DC cabling. This does not provide any EMI/noise protection between cables but does give suitable electrical isolation/separation.  One must however plan the installation so that the AC and DC sides remain separated along the full route.

AC-DC stock a 110x50mm Trunking - see https://www.efapel.pt/en/products/cable-trunkings/10-series-distribution-cable-trunkings

Man... i wish my installation looks like this.

I've managed to get the trunking and conduit now, I've even managed to cut it to the right sizes. I just cant muster the courage to disconnect everything and run it through the trunking and conduit.

15 minutes ago, stoic said:

I've managed to get the trunking and conduit now, I've even managed to cut it to the right sizes. I just cant muster the courage to disconnect everything and run it through the trunking and conduit.

I can appreciate how you feel! I spent ages exploring different options before finalizing on this approach.  I also had to modify a few things after discovering that you cannot fill a regular round-conduit more than about 50% with wires and still expect to pull them through the conduit (depends on length and number of corners etc.).

I only discovered that I had to drill extra holes and add more conduit after cleaning up everything... 

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by NigelL

1 hour ago, NigelL said:

I only discovered that I had to drill extra holes and add more conduit after cleaning up everything... 

This is how a software developer feels when they finish a piece of software and the customer goes... "Just one small change, can you add XXX". Not wanting to break the entire beautiful design, you then attempt to make just a few holes here and there and thread through the bit the customer wants. Three years down the line, there are so many little changes and bolt-ons that you want to throw the whole thing away and start over... but now it runs everywhere and you have to support it...

12 minutes ago, plonkster said:

This is how a software developer feels when they finish a piece of software and the customer goes... "Just one small change, can you add XXX". Not wanting to break the entire beautiful design, you then attempt to make just a few holes here and there and thread through the bit the customer wants. Three years down the line, there are so many little changes and bolt-ons that you want to throw the whole thing away and start over... but now it runs everywhere and you have to support it...

You just described my day job haha.

Lets just add this, lets just add that, and at the end of the day you end up with one big monolithic App that does everything-poorly.

56 minutes ago, PJJ said:

You just described my day job haha.

Lets just add this, lets just add that, and at the end of the day you end up with one big monolithic App that does everything-poorly.

This reminds me of the "New Model Toaster" development. It's a real classic 😀

See http://robnugen.com/writing/old/funny_classics/new_toaster.html

 

On 2019/04/15 at 8:33 AM, Fuenkli said:

are the conductors allowed to terminate in the same DB board? In my case the DC cables from the panels are routed in their own conduit but end up in the main DB board. When I build the house I made sure I have lots of spare conduit running from the roof to the DB board.

Did you ever get clarity on this?

Edited October 21, 20196 yr by PaBz0r

On 2019/04/15 at 12:46 PM, PJJ said:

You just described my day job haha.

Lets just add this, lets just add that, and at the end of the day you end up with one big monolithic App that does everything-poorly.

Do you work for Standard Bank by any chance?

3 minutes ago, DeepBass9 said:

Do you work for Standard Bank by any chance?

Luckily no, but having pulled back the curtains on a few mobile apps from a few large companies all I can say is : There are more systems out there closer to the verge of collapse that you might think, most just need one big unseen anomaly, and pop goes the weasel. 

5 hours ago, PaBz0r said:

Did you ever get clarity on this?

Yes I did. Unfortunately it is illegal. I had to re-route the cables to get a CoC 🙁.

On 2019/04/15 at 9:56 AM, NigelL said:

One can achieve a neat installation using trunking that has an internal divider to separate AC and DC cabling. This does not provide any EMI/noise protection between cables but does give suitable electrical isolation/separation.  One must however plan the installation so that the AC and DC sides remain separated along the full route.

AC-DC stock a 110x50mm Trunking - see https://www.efapel.pt/en/products/cable-trunkings/10-series-distribution-cable-trunkings

Looks good but is it legal to have battery/welding cables not in conduits?

Can the dc renewable cables around the world and Australia use renewable DC current to use the same wires transmission lines as what's I'm place