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SunSynk / Deye inverter using power from grid


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Posted

Hi guys

If any of you are familiar with the SunSynk / Deye range of inverters you will surely have come across the fact that while grid suppply is available they have a constant draw from the grid of around 200w which i figure is the power used to keeo the inverter on.

I consider this a bit of a design flaw and dont understand why they cant use PV power during the day as there own power source.  It doesn't display on the inverter as a load (grid power in will read 0w (or around 20w depending on how much you have your zero export power set to) but a clamp meter on the incoming supply will tell you a different story.

Now, when the invertee switches to island mode naturally grid input does drop to zero and the inverter becomes self sustainable and independent from the grid.

So my question is, has anyone had any success in achieving a true zero import from grid while grid is available?  My ideas at the moment are a bit outrageous and far fetched but wanted to see if anyone else has come across this and has a simple solution.

Posted

Don't have a clamp meter but my electricity meter is the spinning disk meter. I have seen that the disk actually does not move and it does not use anything from the grid if the zero export is set to zero. 

Clamp meters can also be faulty. Is your municipal meter actually ticking over. Assuming you have all loads on the inverter. 

Posted

Inverter is running in off grid configuration so no on grid loads exist.  It's a minimal amount (like i said, around 200w) so you wont notice this on a spinning disc meter.  But have three of these in parallel, all of a sudden it becomes 600w.

Even with zero export set to 0w it still consumes the 200w. 

I recall somewhere that SunSynk prefer to use an energy meter rather than the actual CT clamp provided with the inverter. Most likely due to the effectiveness of the CT clamp? 

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sammyigt said:

Hi guys

If any of you are familiar with the SunSynk / Deye range of inverters you will surely have come across the fact that while grid suppply is available they have a constant draw from the grid of around 200w which i figure is the power used to keeo the inverter on.

I consider this a bit of a design flaw and dont understand why they cant use PV power during the day as there own power source.  It doesn't display on the inverter as a load (grid power in will read 0w (or around 20w depending on how much you have your zero export power set to) but a clamp meter on the incoming supply will tell you a different story.

Now, when the invertee switches to island mode naturally grid input does drop to zero and the inverter becomes self sustainable and independent from the grid.

So my question is, has anyone had any success in achieving a true zero import from grid while grid is available?  My ideas at the moment are a bit outrageous and far fetched but wanted to see if anyone else has come across this and has a simple solution.

Hello Sam, yes, I have a 5.5K Sunsynk and the grid power draw is configurable from 0W to 420 W using the ZeroExport Power in the System Mode screen. I have used 0W and it does exactly that, no draw from the grid. I don't have a very fussy prepaid meter and it allows me to operate in this mode for days on end.

I was advised by Sunsynk support that my setting it to zero wasn't good and that I ought to allow it to use at least 20 to 50W. Their reasoning (the way that I understood it) was that as with any UPS system, it needs to sync with any AC sources. If during the evening, for example, and hypothetically, there was a fault with the batteries, then there would be no solar to draw from, and it would be better for the inverter to have a measurable quantity, however small, of the grid AC sinewave, in order for the sole source (grid) to provide the UPS with the ability to remain alive without any drama. The argument sounded quite logical, and made sense to me, with my (admittedly very basic) understanding of UPS systems.

So I set it to 10W continuous grid draw and it has worked like that for many months. Yes, I am stingy like that 😁

Hence I am quite surprised at your statement that it chews up 200W?

Edited by YellowTapemeasure
Posted
1 hour ago, Sammyigt said:

Inverter is running in off grid configuration so no on grid loads exist.  It's a minimal amount (like i said, around 200w) so you wont notice this on a spinning disc meter.  But have three of these in parallel, all of a sudden it becomes 600w.

Even with zero export set to 0w it still consumes the 200w. 

I recall somewhere that SunSynk prefer to use an energy meter rather than the actual CT clamp provided with the inverter. Most likely due to the effectiveness of the CT clamp? 

What kind of municipal electric meter do you have? 

If the inverter is taking from the grid your municipal will show this. 

  • 8 months later...
Posted

I have a Dye 5kW inverter and it also draws power from the grid. I my case +-350W. This while the sun is shining and  it is charging the battery at 1.5 kW. Its own CT measurement shows 0 most of the time. My inverter is set to "load first". No charging from the grid is done or set up.

If I would now switch on the stove (non essential load) that uses about 1.2 kW the power drawn from the grid can go op to 700W.

The total inverter load at this point is well below 5kW so it is not a case of running out of capacity.

I have a electronic municipality meter and it shows a error when pushing power back. In this case there is no error shown. I measure the inbound thick red wire with an Owl Electricity meter. I also verified, with great effort, that the municipality meter increases accordingly - there is a bit of a discrepancy with the Owl but not significant.

After playing with settings for days on end and after I contacted the service centre, I just gave up. Bought another Lithium battery and disconnected it from the grid.

 

 

Posted

A clamp meter will only be able to measure apparent power. Under grid-tied mode an inverter may only generate with a power factor of 1 (with some tolerance). So the reactive part of your load will be offloaded to the grid. This means there will be current flowing, but your meter should not measure any consumption, as it should only measure real power.

  • 2 months later...
Posted

Has anyone figured out why this is happening? I have the same inverter although not sure if the CT was installed as I think it's configured to use the one build in to the inverter, currently set to Zero Export To Load. I am noticing with the Zero export set to 0 the inverter is showing in fact is pulling 0 but looking on my prepaid meter I can see a draw between 130 to 150 watt. Note testing this I have switched off all the breakers only left the inverter connected to grid, batteries full and the PV has plenty excess.

Posted (edited)

My SynSynk 8k is set to 20W zero export draw, but the average is ~60W as measured by my meter.

image.png.25b5aaedfcd8fb1e66233733c0b447b5.png
I might drop the Zero Export to zero which would should then reduce the invert load to ~40W.
Not sure if there is a draw from the batteries being used.
40-60W does not seem too bad.

EDIT: This reading is from an external meter. The SunSynk Grid-In reports ~15W

 

Edited by system32
  • 2 months later...
Posted

I have tried values between 20W and 50W for the zero export to CT, but still have occasions when the power from the grid goes negative. This happens when the sun is shining and the load drops away or the battery reaches 100%. Suddenly excess power still gets dumped on the grid. This can be many kilowatts for many minutes at a time.

This wouldn't be so bad, but I have a prepaid meter that only goes in one direction. I get charged by the meter when I push power back, and this can be as much as 20% of my total usage. My only option has been to turn off the grid completely when I'm not using it. It is a bit of a pain to remember to turn it when needed as I cannot just leave it on standby.

Anyone have this issue or a solution?

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

@Michaelza Unfortunately that's is the issue I have with this brand of inverter. We replaced the inverter with a brand new one, same issue. Had a couple of solar expert come and try to sort out this issue to no success, they tried adding capacitors to my setup did not work. SynSynk/Deye was contacted with no solution. My only solution at this point was to switch off the grid during the day as well. If you find a solution please do share.

  • 5 weeks later...
Posted

Received a new update from Deye regarding my issue, it seems its indeed it was the reactive part the clamp meter was picking up. But for some reason my prepaid meter also thought it was power I am buying, for month now I switched off the grid during the day, on Tuesday I received an firmware update on the inverter from Deye the version number:

HMI: 0000-c358

Main: 3373-0513

Now it's only pulling around 50w to 80w although more than the 20w configured, its alot better than paying for a 150w-350w.

 

 

 

  • 2 months later...
Posted

Hi, I also have this issue and constant consumption of 200 to 300w is costing me more than my previous inverter. Sunsynk werent very helpful when contacted so I spent hours fiddling. I tried everything down to re routing and shielding the cables for the CT as I thought there was induced current. I could not get it right. I look forward to further discussion here. 

  • 4 months later...
Posted

Did anyone ever solve this? I have the same problem, I'm in the UK. 3.6 Hybrid sunsynk with 5 kwh battery. Even when my main house breaker is off, so only the inverter is connected to the grid, the inverter shows 0w being drawn, my smart meter shows 190w being drawn...

Over 4kw a day to run an inverter?! 

 

 

Posted
On 2022/12/05 at 10:58 PM, djhackett said:

Did anyone ever solve this? I have the same problem, I'm in the UK. 3.6 Hybrid sunsynk with 5 kwh battery. Even when my main house breaker is off, so only the inverter is connected to the grid, the inverter shows 0w being drawn, my smart meter shows 190w being drawn...

Over 4kw a day to run an inverter?! 

 

 

@djhackett, I had a similar problem. Please see my response here: 

  • 2 months later...
Posted

the hybrid inverter has two isolated section the AC side and the DC-DC side.

the grid (AC side) which works for the synchronization of correct phase sinusoidal wave form, The AC grid section uses power and consumes as self feeding to power himself and not relying from the isolated DC side.

The consumptions depends how clean the grid is, the more distortion the more power usage. Aside from that there are also called Reactive power which cannot controlled by the inverter this is produced by inductive loads that also called the float power loss.

Not only Deye having this consumptions even other brand hybrid system have this.

 

Posted

the hybrid inverter has two isolated section the AC side and the DC-DC side.

the grid (AC side) which works for the synchronization of correct phase sinusoidal wave form, The AC grid section uses power and consumes as self feeding to power himself and not relying from the isolated DC side.

The consumptions depends how clean the grid is, the more distortion the more power usage. Aside from that there are also called Reactive power which cannot controlled by the inverter this is produced by inductive loads that also called the float power loss.

Not only Deye having this consumptions even other brand hybrid system have this.

 

Posted
On 2022/03/15 at 9:40 AM, Michaelza said:

I have tried values between 20W and 50W for the zero export to CT, but still have occasions when the power from the grid goes negative. This happens when the sun is shining and the load drops away or the battery reaches 100%. Suddenly excess power still gets dumped on the grid. This can be many kilowatts for many minutes at a time.

This wouldn't be so bad, but I have a prepaid meter that only goes in one direction. I get charged by the meter when I push power back, and this can be as much as 20% of my total usage. My only option has been to turn off the grid completely when I'm not using it. It is a bit of a pain to remember to turn it when needed as I cannot just leave it on standby.

Anyone have this issue or a solution?

It is normal for a very small quantity of electricity to be pushed back to the grid, under the conditions which you described, but definitely not sustained, it's for a microsecond or two. I suspect that you could have other issues, like a CT coil that is incorrectly installed. Could you give some more details of your system, and some screenshots? 

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

It is normal for a very small quantity of electricity to be pushed back to the grid, under the conditions which you described, but definitely not sustained, it's for a microsecond or two. I suspect that you could have other issues, like a CT coil that is incorrectly installed. Could you give some more details of your system, and some screenshots? 

If grid voltage drops the only way for the inverter not to feedback is to also drop its voltage but if grid drops low enough then the inverter is going to feedback or disconnect from grid

Edited by Chris_S
Posted
19 minutes ago, Chris_S said:

If grid voltage drops the only way for the inverter not to feedback is to also drop its voltage but if grid drops low enough then the inverter is going to feedback or disconnect from grid

Correct, that is yet another condition where this happens. But the inverter reacts quite quickly to it, definitely not "for many minutes at a time".

 

  • 3 months later...
Posted (edited)

I also noticed this issue when the battery is full, in the other time it is quite smooth. (deye 12k-sg04lp3)

Yesterday I have grid consumption 0,5kwh and feed to grid 0,1kwh, which is not that dramatic, but it is still annoying. 

Now I have two options in mind:

1. Keep the battery below 98% with automated consumator like crypto miner or something like this

2. Automatically turn of the electricity when battery > 90% (I would need some smart 3 phase relay for this, e.g. Shelly)

Since I am software developer I can reach this with a small server (I build a simple home automation for the boiler / heat pump depending on solar generation) I use the data from the solar assistant mqtt.


image.thumb.png.24ae23a19717e5207e35411e53090a39.png

Edited by Bukso
  • 5 months later...
Posted (edited)
On 2023/05/18 at 1:33 PM, Bukso said:

I also noticed this issue when the battery is full, in the other time it is quite smooth. (deye 12k-sg04lp3)
Now I have two options in mind:

1. Keep the battery below 98% with automated consumator like crypto miner or something like this|
2. Automatically turn of the electricity when battery > 90% (I would need some smart 3 phase relay for this, e.g. Shelly)

I have exactly this issue, no grid draw other than the 20w set in the inverter in the mornings when SOC is below 100%, within about 10min of SOC reaching 100% the grid draw starts and on the Solar Assistant graphs you can clearly see that no battery power is used, and when a bit extra is needed it is taken from the grid. 

Same as yours, very small amounts, but if you add it up it comes to over 4kw in a few hours, switching off the mains solves the problem, but that creates a second problem as the non-essential side then also stops working so killing the geysers heating up. 

For the attached graph, the grid draw started 7 minutes after 100 SOC was reached. 

Screenshot_1.png

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-23 at 13.45.29_536f6d31.jpg

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-23 at 13.45.29_cd1d37b5.jpg

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-18 at 11.01.32_38ed5f81.jpg

Edited by CyberJoe
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, CyberJoe said:

I have exactly this issue, no grid draw other than the 20w set in the inverter in the mornings when SOC is below 100%, within about 10min of SOC reaching 100% the grid draw starts and on the Solar Assistant graphs you can clearly see that no battery power is used, and when a bit extra is needed it is taken from the grid. 

Same as yours, very small amounts, but if you add it up it comes to over 4kw in a few hours, switching off the mains solves the problem, but that creates a second problem as the non-essential side then also stops working so killing the geysers heating up. 

For the attached graph, the grid draw started 7 minutes after 100 SOC was reached. 

Screenshot_1.png

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-23 at 13.45.29_536f6d31.jpg

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-23 at 13.45.29_cd1d37b5.jpg

WhatsApp Image 2023-10-18 at 11.01.32_38ed5f81.jpg

I had a similar problem with a SunSynk 8k where inverter was prioritizing batter over solar.
Yours seems to be using grid instead of Solar or Battery.

See https://powerforum.co.za/topic/12246-help-sunsynk-8k-prioritising-battery-over-solar

Updated the inverter firmware fixed the problem.

Below are the System Mode 1 & 2 settings:

image.png.5aa87852e24a2a4aa766bac959e2dc14.png

image.png.9858ebe66653fbf94736376a448b37c4.png

 

Edited by system32
Posted
48 minutes ago, system32 said:

I had a similar problem with a SunSynk 8k where inverter was prioritizing batter over solar.
Yours seems to be using grid instead of Solar or Battery

 

 

Inverter firmware on the latest, it was done about 2 weeks ago. 

My settings are the same as yours, except I do not use grid charging, solar only. 

It is not really prioritising grid over battery, rather blending in shortfall from the grid instead of the battery, but only when the battery SOC is 100%, when the SOC if 70% for example it is working as expected. 

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CyberJoe said:

Inverter firmware on the latest, it was done about 2 weeks ago. 

My settings are the same as yours, except I do not use grid charging, solar only

It is not really prioritising grid over battery, rather blending in shortfall from the grid instead of the battery, but only when the battery SOC is 100%, when the SOC if 70% for example it is working as expected. 

Not sure that "grid charging" works as you think.

See this Deye video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4f4TGs1CgE

image.png.fe1d69c45b1dc0a9c59f61d2ca415d7c.png
(I made the 15:30 slot also 30% to make it simpler to explain)

System Mode 1 settings works in conjunction with the Shutdown settings:
image.png.d5b667f6f3c795cb522db43ba8f50e4d.png

Grid Checked (and use Timer and Grid ON)
-- Charge battery until SOC reached

Grid Unchecked (and use Timer and Grid ON)
-- Discharge battery until SOC reached

Below is a flow chart:
image.thumb.png.8725d352d947caade8d4c0b2875f40f7.png

Edited by system32
Typo, clarification

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