2 hours ago, Tariq said:

@1ougatdo you have an issue with using batteries on cloudy days or during the night.

I have 10 x 455 w  panels on a Solis 4.6 grid tie inverter that is limited to not feed in - those generate when the sun shines, I have the necessary load and there is no loadshedding . My loadshedding solution is a 3kW Mecer ,24 V Axpert that only supply lights and my Wifi and TV . So no the batteries are not used to supply the general load . And yes in winter we loose about 50 % of the generation capacity but I still find that as I am load constrained that I can use the solar PV for the water heater.

 

PS - Currently 14:48 I am generating 1.9kW from the panels and is currently running the water heater and electric drier - the shortfall is supplied by the munic.

Edited June 11, 20215 yr by 1ougat
update

1 hour ago, Jazzy said:

Hi the new gas geyser allows you to connect your electric geyser outlet straight into it....if it senses that the geyser water is hot, gas does not operate, if it senses water is below the gas geysers set 45 degrees, the gas geyser automatically switches on...I agree best investment I made before solar was a gas geyser...good suggestion. Today I am lucky if my account is 35 rand...lol

Lol that’s awesome news. Gas and solar combo is the best 

Thanks @1ougat, the grid tie Solis answers my question 

On 2021/06/05 at 12:00 PM, Simon Murrell said:

I tried the solar option from Kwikot. I tried it for 2 years. My bill never dropped at all and my Efergy system confirmed it. I went and bought a 16l gas geyser from Dewhot for the entire house. 4 bathrooms. Worked like a charm. At the same time I installed an 8l Dewhot geyser in the scullery area. Obviously both geysers are outside. They hardly drink a lot of gas and the water is hot almost instantly unlike before with an electric geyser. Plus it doesn't have to charge all day or if you have timers for a couple hours a day! Best investment I made. I think in total I spent just under R15k with installation.

I got a quote for a 16L constant and a smaller 5L for the kitchen too, still waiting for an installer to quote. What was you installation cost?

On 2021/06/02 at 7:00 PM, JV0_11_ said:

This is interesting. I have a 5kw of panels and a 200L with 12 useless tubes. I am looking to get another geyser as the current is not big enough for 4 people and guests at times. 

 

What would be the best solution for me? I was thinking another 200L electric geyser with a time and switch both geysers on during the day from 10:00 to 14:00 back to back. Now learning about heat pumps I am reconsidering the idea. 

A Heat Pump costs about R25 000. If a first time installer puts in an 8KVa Sunsynk then uses the Auxiliary output to power the Geyser through a thermostat, the extra cost is R12 000 - R14 000 and one has much more flexibility. The 8KVa can handle at least three high power appliances with ease. 

1 hour ago, TonyH said:

A Heat Pump costs about R25 000. If a first time installer puts in an 8KVa Sunsynk then uses the Auxiliary output to power the Geyser through a thermostat, the extra cost is R12 000 - R14 000 and one has much more flexibility. The 8KVa can handle at least three high power appliances with ease. 

He already has an inverter, the cost of a new inverter with added panels and installation would be more than the cost of a heat pump.

Heat pumps are more efficient appliances in heating homes and your geyser.  They use much less electricity than older technologies. 

A 5kw geyser heat pump should peak at 1200watts which will be well within the capacity of his 5kw inverter.

Since I connected my entire house to an offgrid inverter(axpert hybrid) I have realized that reducing my usage is much cheaper than trying to build a system power my house as is.

A heat pump is more efficient. BTW I do not sell heat pumps just a guy trying to reduce his own usage and power his house in the face of unreliable electricity supply.

Hi Guys

 

I am deciding on the following :

Option 1 : Replace my Electric Geyser with a 26l Paloma

Option 2 : Removing the Element from the Electric Geyser and adding a Heat Pump

 

My Current Geyser Setup :

1 x 200l Solar Geyser with Tubes, Feeding into 1 x 150l Electric Geyser which feeds the house,

 

My Solar Setup :

2 x 5.5kw Sunsynk Inverters

2 x 3.6kw Pylontech Batteries

18 x 330 Solar Panels

I plan to add 1 more Battery and Maybe a Wind Turbine(A Whole new Topic).

The Idea is to go off grid or as close to off grid as possible and not to depend on Eskom.

 

My problem :

My Electricity Bill is currently 3k per month. Family of 6 + 2 Domestics, Everyone showers at different times, Hot water is being used for Mopping floors, Washing clothes, Dishwater, etc (its out of my control) Every time someone opens the hot water tap the geyser element kicks in, Unfortunately I cannot change the habits of how they use hot water, 

 

I should also mention that i have a Gas Hob and Gas Fireplace.

 

My Solution :

Option 1 : Let the Solar Geyser feed the Gas Geyser.

Pros - Hot Water on Demand, Hot water during Load Shedding, Saving on my bill,

Cons - High Gas Bill??? and??

 

Option 2 : Let the Solar Geyser Feed the Electric Geyser, Remove Element on Electric Geyser and replace with Heat Pump,

Pros - Saving on my Electricity Bill 

Cons - No Hot water during Load Shedding or Power Outages, Unless its connected to my Solar System but Will Probably drain my Batteries during the Evenings. Also it still uses some Electricity.

 

Please note - the Element on the Solar Geyser is Switched off.

 

Looking forward to the feedback.

Edited November 15, 20214 yr by Rehaan

22 hours ago, Rehaan said:

Hi Guys

 

I am deciding on the following :

Option 1 : Replace my Electric Geyser with a 26l Paloma

Option 2 : Removing the Element from the Electric Geyser and adding a Heat Pump

 

My Current Geyser Setup :

1 x 200l Solar Geyser with Tubes, Feeding into 1 x 150l Electric Geyser which feeds the house,

 

My Solar Setup :

2 x 5.5kw Sunsynk Inverters

2 x 3.6kw Pylontech Batteries

18 x 330 Solar Panels

I plan to add 1 more Battery and Maybe a Wind Turbine(A Whole new Topic).

The Idea is to go off grid or as close to off grid as possible and not to depend on Eskom.

 

My problem :

My Electricity Bill is currently 3k per month. Family of 6 + 2 Domestics, Everyone showers at different times, Hot water is being used for Mopping floors, Washing clothes, Dishwater, etc (its out of my control) Every time someone opens the hot water tap the geyser element kicks in, Unfortunately I cannot change the habits of how they use hot water, 

 

I should also mention that i have a Gas Hob and Gas Fireplace.

 

My Solution :

Option 1 : Let the Solar Geyser feed the Gas Geyser.

Pros - Hot Water on Demand, Hot water during Load Shedding, Saving on my bill,

Cons - High Gas Bill??? and??

 

Option 2 : Let the Solar Geyser Feed the Electric Geyser, Remove Element on Electric Geyser and replace with Heat Pump,

Pros - Saving on my Electricity Bill 

Cons - No Hot water during Load Shedding or Power Outages, Unless its connected to my Solar System but Will Probably drain my Batteries during the Evenings. Also it still uses some Electricity.

 

Please note - the Element on the Solar Geyser is Switched off.

 

Looking forward to the feedback.

My experience has been all positive with the heat pump. I have the 5kw(1200watt input) heat pump and an axpert type(growatt) inverter which means the heat pump is always powered. You could move it to the essential side.

You could get a 3,6kw one which is a 860watt input both multiply your input by 3-4 times to give you the rated power.

They actually heat up the water very fast, I've yet to see it take more than an hour to heat water even cold days which means you would use 0,8kwh -1,4kwh to heat your Geyser to 55 celcius. Generally a manageable amount but your battery is undersized for your inverters.

Even though batteries have come down in price they are still the most expensive component. Since your system is designed to maximize daytime production a solution that I have seen from others is making your hot water storage very large and heating it during the day to over 60 celcius. For example two 300litre geysers heated by tubes will still be much cheaper than buying 2 more batteries and a heat pump.

But since you want to go close to offgrid then you will need the batteries anyway then with a large battery bank you can just leave the heat pump on. Here is a screenshot of when I forgot to turn mine off. It came on and off in 15 minute spells to keep the water at 55 celcius.

I have a low pressure solar geyser with a high pressure copper coil running through it for heat transfer into my high pressure water. Works very well and has been very reliable, has been on my roof for about 10 years so far 🙂 

There are a few suppliers locally 

https://solargeyserstechnology.co.za/sa-solar-technology-coiler-solar-geysers.html 

On 2021/11/15 at 11:24 PM, Rehaan said:

Hi Guys

 

I am deciding on the following :

Option 1 : Replace my Electric Geyser with a 26l Paloma

Option 2 : Removing the Element from the Electric Geyser and adding a Heat Pump

 

My Current Geyser Setup :

1 x 200l Solar Geyser with Tubes, Feeding into 1 x 150l Electric Geyser which feeds the house,

 

My Solar Setup :

2 x 5.5kw Sunsynk Inverters

2 x 3.6kw Pylontech Batteries

18 x 330 Solar Panels

I plan to add 1 more Battery and Maybe a Wind Turbine(A Whole new Topic).

The Idea is to go off grid or as close to off grid as possible and not to depend on Eskom.

 

My problem :

My Electricity Bill is currently 3k per month. Family of 6 + 2 Domestics, Everyone showers at different times, Hot water is being used for Mopping floors, Washing clothes, Dishwater, etc (its out of my control) Every time someone opens the hot water tap the geyser element kicks in, Unfortunately I cannot change the habits of how they use hot water, 

 

I should also mention that i have a Gas Hob and Gas Fireplace.

 

My Solution :

Option 1 : Let the Solar Geyser feed the Gas Geyser.

Pros - Hot Water on Demand, Hot water during Load Shedding, Saving on my bill,

Cons - High Gas Bill??? and??

 

Option 2 : Let the Solar Geyser Feed the Electric Geyser, Remove Element on Electric Geyser and replace with Heat Pump,

Pros - Saving on my Electricity Bill 

Cons - No Hot water during Load Shedding or Power Outages, Unless its connected to my Solar System but Will Probably drain my Batteries during the Evenings. Also it still uses some Electricity.

 

Please note - the Element on the Solar Geyser is Switched off.

 

Looking forward to the feedback.

Change your existing geyser element with a 1.5Kw Geyserwise PTC element. That way you can have your geyser ON the whole day and then Install Paloma 26L/m gas geyser in parallel with the electric geyser so that you can have instant hot water in the morning or when it is cloudy. If your electric geyser is well insulated, you will hardly use any gas heating because the gas water heater is only used to boost the temperature of water from your electric geyser if goes below 50 deg cels. I have the same set up and no complaints, just need to get my geyser blanket ON. All the pipes are insulated. I have had this for a week now and I'm impressed 

I installed 2 x Paloma's early this year. They are the 26L units.

Very efficient but they do require a 220v supply for ignition. Use only a 48w ignitor.

On the one side of the house the one geyser supplies hot water for 4 adults and the kitchen. A 48 L Gas bottle last an average of 90 days during the summer months. Cost of the 48 L bottle delivered from Afrox R1200 to R1250.

Thanks Guys,

I have decided to go with the 26L Paloma Gas Geyser.

It will be setup as follows :

Gas Geyser in Parallel with Existing Solar Geyser.

 

Will take some images and give feedback after the installation.

 

 

Hi Guys,

So the Paloma Gas Geyser is Installed,

Solar Geyser feeds the Gas Geyser,

I set the Temp on the Gas Geyser to 50 Degrees, I will give an update again in the next month or 2 regarding Gas consumption.

 

Only major difference i noticed is the pressure is slightly lower now since the electric geyser is uninstalled,

Any suggestions to get the pressure up?

 

As for my Electricity Consumption, my usage dropped from 70kw to 30kw per day.

My Solar System Covers around 20kw to 25kw

 

On 2021/06/01 at 8:53 PM, Petrie said:

I'm on solar now for 6 months, but geyser (200lt, 3kw) is still on Eskom. I want to go completely off grid. Which is the best geyser alternative? Solar, high pressure/low pressure, retrofit or gas? Considering purchase price etc.

If you read this on the forum : Best and Most Cost Effective Geyser system under that topic.

The most expensive is gas followed by heat pumps and the best is vacuum tube or panels.  Vacuum tubes install easier because of wait .......

I had a gas geyser simply threw it away as gas efficiency is almost pathetic. That is +/- R6000 down the drain. Gas is the worst you can have.

Following gas is a timer timer based system as it does not save power it generates less hot water therefore it creates the illusion of saving. If you want hot water when the geyser is off then you don't have hot water.....

Because some one asked ROI on geyser I did a few thest.

You will find facts in this article that is substantiated with data,

I made one mistake and bought 15 tubes I should have gone for 20 tubes.

The way  it is currently using power is less than 3 kw per day.  All related to water usage.

The R amounts is almost exactly what I paid  and ....

With grid tie system I am adding 2 x 405 panels and then that will ensure that I have hot water free.

So you understand I have free water, solar power and get money back from pushing into the grid. 

Thus my hot water is also free.

 

 

I went the heat pump route, bought it second hand from someone who had upgraded to a larger one.

cost R5k, installation R5k, all in all very happy. installation parts for a heat pump are amazingly expensive.

uses 800w give or take, heats the water quickly. timed to run off solar only.

10 hours ago, Rehaan said:

Hi Guys,

So the Paloma Gas Geyser is Installed,

Solar Geyser feeds the Gas Geyser,

I set the Temp on the Gas Geyser to 50 Degrees, I will give an update again in the next month or 2 regarding Gas consumption.

 

Only major difference i noticed is the pressure is slightly lower now since the electric geyser is uninstalled,

Any suggestions to get the pressure up?

 

As for my Electricity Consumption, my usage dropped from 70kw to 30kw per day.

My Solar System Covers around 20kw to 25kw

 

Thanks for the update and Pic, the flat roof seems to make installing all this solar equipment easier from the picture.

1 hour ago, Nitrious said:

I went the heat pump route, bought it second hand from someone who had upgraded to a larger one.

cost R5k, installation R5k, all in all very happy. installation parts for a heat pump are amazingly expensive.

uses 800w give or take, heats the water quickly. timed to run off solar only.

Great story thanks for sharing.

9 hours ago, Erastus said:

If you read this on the forum : Best and Most Cost Effective Geyser system under that topic.

The most expensive is gas followed by heat pumps and the best is vacuum tube or panels.  Vacuum tubes install easier because of wait .......

I had a gas geyser simply threw it away as gas efficiency is almost pathetic. That is +/- R6000 down the drain. Gas is the worst you can have.

Following gas is a timer timer based system as it does not save power it generates less hot water therefore it creates the illusion of saving. If you want hot water when the geyser is off then you don't have hot water.....

Because some one asked ROI on geyser I did a few thest.

You will find facts in this article that is substantiated with data,

I made one mistake and bought 15 tubes I should have gone for 20 tubes.

The way  it is currently using power is less than 3 kw per day.  All related to water usage.

The R amounts is almost exactly what I paid  and ....

With grid tie system I am adding 2 x 405 panels and then that will ensure that I have hot water free.

So you understand I have free water, solar power and get money back from pushing into the grid. 

Thus my hot water is also free.

 

 

Vacuum tubes are very good but I would have kept the gas geyser as back up for really bad weather. 

I have a Gas generator in my plans for the future but I need to also upgrade inverter as I have no spare inputs on the current one.

The rain we had is good but it lasts the whole week and our power grid issues are far from over.

The benefit of gas is that you have a store of it for you to use when all other sources are not there same as petrol or diesel generators.

Maybe for daily use it would be most efficient to combine a gas geyser with a solar geyser powered by vacuum tubes. But you have to realize that not everyone has the budget for most efficient but need something to just work when you have to rely on yourself to ensure your house has hot water.

Edited December 8, 20214 yr by Buyeye

5 minutes ago, Buyeye said:

Vacuum tubes are very good but I would have kept the gas geyser as back up for really bad weather. 

I have a Gas generator in my plans for the future but I need to also upgrade inverter as I have no spare inputs on the current one.

The rain we had is good but it lasts the whole week and our power grid issues are far from over.

The benefit of gas is that you have a store of it for you to use when all other sources are not there same as petrol or diesel generators.

Maybe for daily use it would be most efficient to combine a gas geyser with a solar geyser powered by vacuum tubes. But you have to realize that not everyone has the budget for most efficient but need something to just work when you have to rely on yourself to ensure your house has hot water.

What do you mean by gas generators?  Generators that runs on gas instead of petrol or diesel like fork lifts? They are fantastic.
I have never heard of a gas heat generator if that is what you mean please share info I would love to know more about it.

Never forget I refer to a combination of solar vacuum tubes, PV panels and grid tie.  Therefore the more I push back into the grid the less I pay. 

Normally with my solar tracker I generate good Kwhr when sun lifts his head.  Currently I generate more than 2MW per month 😇.  Not sure in other places but the last week or 2 rain we had had a very high UV content and still I used less than 5Kw per day.

That 5Kwhr was covered by what I fed back. 

This made me order another manifold with tubes plus 2 4xxW panels for my small inverter.
 

I had one of these just a different make.

 

I find them better than my new one that heats a manifold.

A classical graph of 24 hour usage.  For the past 24 hr we used 60 min power from the grid (Yellow line)
Timers are back on.
It started yesterday morning at 05h30.
At 06H30 the sun started warming the glass tubes
07H00 somebody bathed the geyser was pulled down to 39C and a quick heat by the holding tank 25 minutes later the geyser was back at 54C
The complete day went by not a single minute power was used.
Late last night the using of hot water 20 unit
During the night a top up of 15 minutes

Thus for 24 hr it is 25 + 25 + 15= 65 minutes of heating or 3.1Kwhr
 

My feedback to the grid yesterday after all my home usage was paid  I still had 38Kwhr spare that went to the rest of the account.

The only maintenance is the small circulation pump @ +/- R850. 

Here comes the trick:

1. Free water
2. Free power
3. Free hot water
4. Account paid via solar and some spare

What I will do is add another 10 or 15 panels I recon on a "colder" day that will keep the water good.

If I had a fancy timer or a heat pump or gas the cost would have been a lot more

Grid tied & Vacuum tubes and surplus solar power is unbeatable based on facts not assumptions or gut-feel.

Clearly shows all the timers is wasted money so is gas as you always HAVE to pay.

Do it right and hot water is totally free

I would consider solar + borehole to effectively (in my case) be a lump sum investment I'm earning R4k a month on currently, with annual increases of 10%-20%.

taking other available investment vehicles into account, what else can give you that sort of return, with zero input and zero risk, plus your lights dont go off when the winds blows in eskoms general direction.

I additionally skewed the ROI in my favour by buying what I could second hand. (within reason)

Also keep in mind your property value inherently goes up as does ease of disposing it, all in all a great investment opportunity.

Edited December 9, 20214 yr by Nitrious

3 minutes ago, Nitrious said:

I would consider solar + borehole to effectively (in my case) be a lump sum investment I'm earning R4k a month on currently, with annual increases of 10%-20%.

taking other available investment vehicles into account, what else can give you that sort of return, with zero input and zero risk, plus your lights dont go off when the winds blows in eskoms general direction.

On my solar system I invested +/- R56 000 the geyser was +/- R 12 000. 

The ROI  more than R5000 per month. This figure is lower than actual figures.  14 months the investment is 100% back and I keep on getting money back. 

You are 100% right

Let me share with you the past 24 Hr graph.  Based on facts not gut-feel my view but hard core facts:

classical graph of 24 hour usage.  For the past 24 hr we used 60 min power from the grid (Yellow line)
Timers are back on.
It started yesterday morning at 05h30.
At 06H30 the sun started warming the glass tubes
07H00 somebody bathed the geyser was pulled down to 39C and a quick heat by the holding tank 25 minutes later the geyser was back at 54C
The complete day went by not a single minute power was used.
Late last night the using of hot water 20 unit
During the night a top up of 15 minutes

Thus for 24 hr it is 25 + 25 + 15= 65 minutes of heating or 3.1Kwhr
 

My feedback to the grid yesterday after all my home usage was paid  I still had 38Kwhr spare that went to the rest of the account.

The only maintenance is the small circulation pump @ +/- R850. 

Here comes the trick:

1. Free water
2. Free power
3. Free hot water
4. Account paid via solar and some spare

What I will do is add another 10 or 15 panels I recon on a "colder" day that will keep the water good.

If I had a fancy timer or a heat pump or gas the cost would have been a lot more

Grid tied & Vacuum tubes and surplus solar power is unbeatable based on facts not assumptions or gut-feel.

Clearly shows all the timers is wasted money so is gas as you always HAVE to pay.

Do it right and hot water is totally free

No other system with expensive timers, heat pumps and or gas or even combination  can give you this.  If you run a geyser from batteries that is even more expensive.

If you have to use batteries or gas that's something else.

I red you have Eskom it will pay you to become grid tie and you then can even get your money back on the expensive batteries and ...   😇

 

on the battery front, I'm eyeing out the latest move towards compressed air, and if it will ever become available for households, and even what it would take to do so.