Hi Guys,

 

I will have a budget soon for around 120K . I priced a few systems to give me roughly 45kWh a day , prices range from R250K to R300k. I eventually want my solar / battery system to power our daily needs and just use Eskom for Top-Up's

 I'm based in centurion.

I'm keen on a Victron / Polytech setup. The only reason is that a friend of ours has such a setup . I haven't decided on which Victron Inverter to go for . My mate has the Victron Quattro8000

For a budget of 120K what would you recommend as an interim setup to counter Load-shedding

 

A- Victron Inverter +  3 x Polytech  4.8kW batteries

B- Victron Inverter + 1 x Polytech 4.8kW battery + some Solar Panels or all the required solar Panels

 

Thanks

 

Edited November 20, 20214 yr by Bluefronted

You can have a look at my Victron setup. Also have a look at my posts on how to go about putting together a system.

My system here  and the system design stuff here

Many people will comment on spesifics that work for them, you will need to figure out what will work now and can be expanded for your needs later.

Quote

I will have a budget soon for around 120K .

My first setup was approx R100k: 9 Canadian PV of 335W each, 1 Axpert/Synerji MKS 5K, 2 pack 100Ah 48V Lithium each from Averge. Later I upgraded to 12 PV, 2 MKS 5K in parallel and 4 Battery packs. Total approx R150k.

Edited November 20, 20214 yr by Beat

1 hour ago, Bluefronted said:

Hi Guys,

 

I will have a budget soon for around 120K . I priced a few systems to give me roughly 45kWh a day , prices range from R250K to R300k. I eventually want my solar / battery system to power our daily needs and just use Eskom for Top-Up's

 I'm based in centurion.

I'm keen on a Victron / Polytech setup. The only reason is that a friend of ours has such a setup . I haven't decided on which Victron Inverter to go for . My mate has the Victron Quattro8000

For a budget of 120K what would you recommend as an interim setup to counter Load-shedding

 

A- Victron Inverter +  3 x Polytech  4.8kW batteries

B- Victron Inverter + 1 x Polytech 4.8kW battery + some Solar Panels or all the required solar Panels

 

Thanks

 

Victron is undoubtedly great kit, and at the beginning of my own journey (around 18 months ago) I also wanted it. The only problem is that It will be difficult to meet your stated budgetary constraints.  

Considering that this would be for a home install (and therefore not something requiring an esoteric solution), what if you were offered something that can do everything that the Victron can, at around a third of the price? If so, I would suggest giving Steve at The Powerforumstore a call.

Thanks Guys for the quick responses. 

When I first started with my Axpert /Pylontech system a couple of years ago, I also wanted Victron as my 'dream' system. I then added a Victron MPPT 250/100 and moved all my panels off the Axperts - which was definitely a nice and noticeable upgrade.

But the more I eyed a full Victron system, the higher the cost went...

So I eventually moved to Sunsynk (2x 5kW) and am very happy with my system. It works like a charm - especially the feed to the non-essential side with excess PV.

You could start off with 1x 5kW and then later add more inverters as you need and your funds allow. 1x Sunsynk will give you 2 MPPTs, and if you another inverter later, you will get further MPPTs and additional flexibility.

Same with the batteries. Start with a smaller pack, maybe 2x Pylons or Hubbles, and then later expand.

Something like 1x Sunsynk 5kW, 2x Pylon 3.5kW, and 9x JA 490W will be around R90k. Then add a whole bunch of installation materials (cables, breakers/fuses, combiner boxes, panel mounting hardware) and installation labor (and maybe monitoring software) - and you will quickly hit your budget.

As much as I adore Victron (and have made good experience with their MPPT) - something similar with Victron equipment will cost you significantly more. And I do not see (or know) what more benefits a Victron system would give me over my current setup.

What I have learnt so far ... as I scratch deeper and deeper into solar/inverter/batteries ... I need to scratch deep ...my business has already been around for more than 30 years ... and I plan to be around for at least another 20-30 years ... offering warranties of 25 years and lifetime workmanship warranties on solar product seems a bit unrealistic ... I can see it already ... trying to find an installer or get them to return to get their system up to standard has also proved to be quite a challenge ... the same thing with the products ... for example ...try find someone to repair a 3 year old axpert inverter  (NO I dont install systems yet)

The most important thing to consider is the product support ... does the product have support ? ... I dont mean only when it breaks.

It starts at the design  ... then can you add and upgrade the system ... will the product still be available to add to the system in 2-5 years time ... its already happening ... customers are sitting with door stops ... at least some can use them to make lead sinkers with the older batteries. 

I am sitting with customers who have systems installed 3-5 years ago ... and there  is nothing we can do with the systems ... other than strip and replace the entire system.

People say Victron is too expensive ... replacing a R120 000 system because the product  doesnt have support or cant be upgraded ... is a lot of money to piss against the wall ... unless you have a tax problem and need to get rid of large sums of cash (it seems there are a lot more of these people than I thought) ... or maybe a pension payout as the  "investment"  ... be wise with your selection if you dont fall into the big spender category.

Once you have decided on the brand ... then you need to understand what it is you are trying to achieve ... some will say take your electricity account and divide it by XYZ ... but there's another catch ... when do you use the power ... in the morning ... in the evening ? 

do you need more solar power or more battery backup? 

Are you prepared to make a lot of sacrifices and  change your lifestyle to suit your system ... or do you want a system to suit your lifestyle ? 

As many have pointed out ... there is no one system suits all.

An example I completed a load profile for a customer ... 20 % of the power is consumed during the day and 80 % in the evening ... the aircons are not used during the day ... however at night all the aircons run ... there is a lot of cooking going on and no gas. 

Another customer's load profile is completely the opposite ... 20 % in the evening and 80 % during the day. 

One thing I have learnt about customers ... some want to tinker ... install home assistant and a solar system and spend their life trying to fine tune everything ... but most just expect the project to be designed and installed to work ... they want the power on during load shedding and they want to see a  drop in the electricity account. 

To make things even worse ... they have people over for a braai and get talking about their system and whos system is better. 

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by isetech

Go look here, there's a pretty good system for R135K..Not victron, but if you want the same functionality as the Victron at 1/2 the price, then Sunsync is the way to go...Besides "just cos my friend has a Victron" does not mean its the right/best solution for you/your budget.

 

 

As stated before, budget is one aspect of selecting a system. Future expandability is another. One thing oft discounted is software of the system and service. Another is set and forget. No disrespect intended, I am after all one, 🤚 people are in two camps, those that just want a working system with no hands on, others and I am one, want to tweak and be involved.

The service and firmware aspects are very important. Less expensive systems have their drawbacks, cheaper comes with compromises. Some manufacturers spend as little as possible on firmware features, some don’t bother to fix bugs. Just browse on here to see all the issues people have with their systems. Some do not bother to carry spares or have proper manuals. Having those things, in my opinion, is important. Is it worth the extra money, hell yes! For me anyways. You have to decide for you. This opinion of firmware and service being worth is money, sometimes get people riled up on here.

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by Sarel
Added opinion

Thanks all for getting my mind running again, I will look into the setups and brands as kindly suggested. T🙌

So for now my budget is 120K but within a year or so want to push for the 300k mark if not sooner.

One of my neighbours went "completely OFF grid" , well not really as he is still hooked up to Eskom as a back-up. He installed his system in early 2019. Told me that as a family they took a decision , instead of replacing at the time their 7 year old SUV ,all  paid up and in 100% condition, they decided to make an investment into Solar and use the "new Vehicles" monthly payments and their monthly electricity bill to pay off the Solar Setup which they have done.

So if my old lady agrees maybe i will just do similar from the start !!!😎

 

 

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by Bluefronted

As I victron user, I strongly agree with the advice of the people above. Their are some great options in the market that do nearly everything you can with the victron. I think you will feel happier with a system that fulfills your energy needs than a system that does not.

You have greater potential for future expandability and much better firmware with a victron system as @Sarel has mentioned. You also have the ability to create a great ecosystem of parts that work flawlesly together and integrate well with other brands products like @Sarel with his Fronius inverter. I enjoy being able to monitor and understand exactly what my system is doing.

Get a few quotes for systems and see what the different systems can offer for your budget. 

If you know your budget is going to become larger though in the near future then maybe you will be happier with a victron. Especially as adding more solar pannels is as simple as purchasing an additional MPPT and adding it to the system.

Edit:

Those sunsynk inverters are looking very appealing right now. They appear to do everything most people will need quite well. 

Keep in mind when pricing systems that when you purchase a victron system you need the inverter + GX Device + Solar Chargers while an inverter like the sunsynks come with an integrated MPPT charge controller.

Edited November 21, 20214 yr by Basil Katakuzinos

@Bluefronted You welcome to bounce ideas, do you know your consumption? What is the main aim, off grid or just ride out them blackouts?

I did all the research, design, planning, layout etc for my system. I used a Solar company here in Centurion to do all the procurement and install everything. They did an excellent job of it, very happy.

5 hours ago, isetech said:

What I have learnt so far ... as I scratch deeper and deeper into solar/inverter/batteries ... I need to scratch deep ...my business has already been around for more than 30 years ... and I plan to be around for at least another 20-30 years ... offering warranties of 25 years and lifetime workmanship warranties on solar product seems a bit unrealistic ... I can see it already ... trying to find an installer or get them to return to get their system up to standard has also proved to be quite a challenge ... the same thing with the products ... for example ...try find someone to repair a 3 year old axpert inverter  (NO I dont install systems yet)

The most important thing to consider is the product support ... does the product have support ? ... I dont mean only when it breaks.

It starts at the design  ... then can you add and upgrade the system ... will the product still be available to add to the system in 2-5 years time ... its already happening ... customers are sitting with door stops ... at least some can use them to make lead sinkers with the older batteries. 

I am sitting with customers who have systems installed 3-5 years ago ... and there  is nothing we can do with the systems ... other than strip and replace the entire system.

People say Victron is too expensive ... replacing a R120 000 system because the product  doesnt have support or cant be upgraded ... is a lot of money to piss against the wall ... unless you have a tax problem and need to get rid of large sums of cash (it seems there are a lot more of these people than I thought) ... or maybe a pension payout as the  "investment"  ... be wise with your selection if you dont fall into the big spender category.

Once you have decided on the brand ... then you need to understand what it is you are trying to achieve ... some will say take your electricity account and divide it by XYZ ... but there's another catch ... when do you use the power ... in the morning ... in the evening ? 

do you need more solar power or more battery backup? 

Are you prepared to make a lot of sacrifices and  change your lifestyle to suit your system ... or do you want a system to suit your lifestyle ? 

As many have pointed out ... there is no one system suits all.

An example I completed a load profile for a customer ... 20 % of the power is consumed during the day and 80 % in the evening ... the aircons are not used during the day ... however at night all the aircons run ... there is a lot of cooking going on and no gas. 

Another customer's load profile is completely the opposite ... 20 % in the evening and 80 % during the day. 

One thing I have learnt about customers ... some want to tinker ... install home assistant and a solar system and spend their life trying to fine tune everything ... but most just expect the project to be designed and installed to work ... they want the power on during load shedding and they want to see a  drop in the electricity account. 

To make things even worse ... they have people over for a braai and get talking about their system and whos system is better. 

Well said. Could not agree more. 

For R120K with future expandability I would start with the inverter, then panels, then battery's to be added later, possibly a heat pump/borehole as well

For instance

Inverter

1x Sunsynk 8kW Hybrid Inverter

Total : R33K

Panels

Option 1 - 9810W

18x Jinko Solar Panel Tiger 545W @ R 3,590 

Total : R65K

Option 2 - 

470W panels allows more panels to be added, fully utilizing the 2x mttp's, option one seems to be enough for your power requirements.

Battery  - 

1x Pylontech Lithium Ion 4.8kW UP5000 @ R 23,300

Total : R23K

more to be added as budget allows.

Grand Total : R121K plus incidentals, you can likely also negotiate a discount, at least 10% or more

 

 

 

17,573 kWh/Year*

PVWATTS RESULTS - on above

Print Results

Month	Solar Radiation ( kWh / m2 / day )	AC Energy ( kWh )	Value ( R)
January	5.93	1,436	3,447
February	5.83	1,291	3,099
March	6.10	1,484	3,561
April	5.86	1,415	3,396
May	6.01	1,484	3,561
June	5.79	1,415	3,396
July	6.02	1,520	3,649
August	6.34	1,595	3,828
September	6.31	1,506	3,616
October	6.15	1,528	3,667
November	5.85	1,407	3,377
December	6.04	1,491	3,580
Annual	6.02	17,572	R 42,177

8 hours ago, Nitrious said:

 

17,573 kWh/Year*

PVWATTS RESULTS - on above

Print Results

Month	Solar Radiation ( kWh / m2 / day )	AC Energy ( kWh )	Value ( R)
January	5.93	1,436	3,447
February	5.83	1,291	3,099
March	6.10	1,484	3,561
April	5.86	1,415	3,396
May	6.01	1,484	3,561
June	5.79	1,415	3,396
July	6.02	1,520	3,649
August	6.34	1,595	3,828
September	6.31	1,506	3,616
October	6.15	1,528	3,667
November	5.85	1,407	3,377
December	6.04	1,491	3,580
Annual	6.02	17,572	R 42,177

I dont have domestic experience but what I have learnt with a 500kWp industrial installation this year you would be lucky to achieve half of that in the real world.

@Scubadude,

You're not incorrect in your statement.

Domestic equipment varies wildly in its efficiencies but the suggested inverter is a good one imo, and the suggested panels also work well.

I prefer to oversize on solar panels myself, its why option 2 is in there with the 470w panels. These produce 10-11amps and can be put in parallel with the suggested inverter, obviously fused. Available roof space does become a concern, but this would make it expandable if there's a need for more power within the limitations of the inverter.

Solar irradiance goes down in winter and in some cases you only get half of your expected generation and you should plan for this, hence the over sizing on solar panels.

Voltage and current need to be within the specs on the inverter.

In summer I have recorded around 75% ave peak output from my panels without any maintenance, 15 mins cleaning them brings this up to around 87% of stated wattage. This includes my inverters inefficiencies as well. 50% is available immediately around 8am.

In summer shading is much less pronounced than in winter.

I have attached a study "Seasonal Performance of a 3.8 kWp Rooftop PV System in Zone 2 Climate of South Africa". which I believe may be of use.

Not enough information was gathered from the initial poster, for instance, options for load reduction, peak power usage etc. but this is the role of the installer/supplier rather than a forum.

I gave some guidelines and direction within the stated budget. Personally I'd start with a heat pump and reduce load, energy efficient appliances would be my next go to.

By doing this the size of the solar system needed would reduce and cost savings would follow.

The best way forward imo would be measuring load over a week or so, determine energy saving methods/appliances, then a drone based 3d rendering of the house, along with tree's etc, and everything calculated, 3d renderings of layout, including roi. It should be a 20 or more page document the poster receives.

 

79.pdf

On 2021/11/21 at 10:41 PM, Scubadude said:

I dont have domestic experience but what I have learnt with a 500kWp industrial installation this year you would be lucky to achieve half of that in the real world.

This is my small home system. I made the prediction as per the attached. My system as follows:

12.51kWp panels for about 7% losses gives 11.6kWp. My 3 MPPT strings and controllers are capable of delivering 10.2kW of power. The Fronius limits on 8.2Kw and the Victron limit on 1960W for my battery voltage for a total of 10.16kW from the 11.6kW usable. I regularly get 10.2kW delivered. See the month of October. This gives me an average, including rainy and cloudy days, of 53kWh per day. That is a staggering 95.8% of predicted generation.

As can be seen here, not the best conditions for October.

Really can't go wrong with Victron