Recently had a Hexing prepaid meter (HXE130) forced down on me (Tshwane). I set the inverter (Sunsynk 8kw) to 50W grid trickle before the install, no trips or hassles so far, probably going to trial 40W for a few weeks and then 30W and to see where it starts getting unstable.

I can add that the "few units" that are preloaded when they install the meter is exactly 5KW, so you beter load some immediately. The installer was friendly and helped me with my banking app on how to proceed before he left even. My customer unit (CIU EV500) does work on the inverter load side without any issues. I understand some people have an issue where the customer unit cannot communicate through the inverter, at least mine didn't but from the manual it appears this unit have RF and PLC capability so it might be going via short-range RF?

On 2022/12/08 at 11:51 AM, system32 said:

Pay me like you pay Eskom.

Ahhh, but are they actually paying Eksdom? 😉

On 2022/12/08 at 11:51 AM, system32 said:

TOU single phase <=80A Service/Admin + Capacity charge: R886.98 (inc VAT) [2022/23 rates]

I could not find 2022/23 TOU domestic rates, so these are from 2021/22 with a 14.49% increase:
The domestic TOU rates are telescopic, this is just up to 500kWh per month:

• Peak Summer 226.54c/kWh, Winter 521.19c/kWh
• Standard Summer 190.98c/kWh, Winter 227.84c/kWh
• Off-Peak Summer 140.98c/kWh, Winter 150.66c/kWh [ when you charge your Tesla ]

We get something similar in Johannesburg.

I was thinking about TOU like they do it in Europe, where it is TIME  as in hour of the day. In this scenario if you have PV, you let it charge your batteries. If you don't then you charge your batteries during cheap time, say 1am to 5am. Having charged up your batteries you then discharge them at peak time, say 6pm to 9pm, and the difference in the tariffs applicable at those times of day is your credit.

Though I would guess that in practice it's not that attractive to go to all the extra cost of getting batteries, when you can just sell what is basically free electricity, even if it is at an off-peak rate. 

On 2022/12/01 at 7:15 PM, Concrete said:

3. Is it possible to top up prepaid electricity remotely when you are not at the property or do you physically need to punch in a code on your prepaid meter?
4. Is it possible to see how much prepaid electricity you have left remotely?

I'll be glad to work on project that accomplishes #3 and #4 for STS prepayment meters with M-bus or PLC link between the MCU and UIU/CIU.  

Hi @Kilowatt Power thanks for your post, I will contact you mid month when I’m back from holiday.

On this topic, I have now received the CIU-PH04 pre-paid device, what is the minimum I can set the inverter to continuously draw from the grid without tripping?  

I have mine set at 20w and it has not tripped. 

Mine set to 0W, trickles back a tiny bit now and then, but prepaid never tripped...thats on a Goodwe inverter however, not sure how big a trickle the Sunsynk would produce...

(Trial and error 😉

 

On 2022/12/06 at 8:12 AM, AlexTZA said:

Some hopefully useful feedback for you based on my CoJ conversion to prepaid, as well as other's I'm aware of that have done the conversion in my complex:

1) Yes - they didn't have any problem with it.

2) If you have a prepaid meter directly from City Power, then you buy power at those published rates via Internet Banking etc.

3) Not as far as I'm aware - everything has to happen through the customer interface unit (CIU) which has a keypad and talks directly to the meter.

4) Not as far as I'm aware no - also through the customer interface unit.

5) Emails go into a black hole. There are two options - go to your municipal offices yourself, fill out the forms etc., or get a third party to register on your behalf for a fee (I took the latter approach as I didn't have the time or zen-master levels of patience to deal with council - I can provide details via PM).

6) No - I had the same 80A single phase connection.

FYI - the CoJ prepaid meters supplied, at least in Randburg from the Roodepoort CoJ (African Metering Solutions (AMS) CIU-PH04 since about mid 2022) CIU's use power line communication - i.e. the unit has to have a direct connection via your electrical wiring to the meter. Thus, you either need to manually switch the plug circuit you have the CIU connected to (presumably essential load plug) via a changeover switch back to Eskom to be able to load your prepaid vouchers or see you balance, or you need to have a non-essential/grid-connected plug for the meter that is electrically compliantly wired permanently into Eskom. I'm also aware of at least one instance in my complex where the meter was rather picky as to which plug it would reliably work on, so something potentially also to keep in mind.

Mind sharing which 3rd party you used to get the application done? Would greatly appreciate it!

Hi guys

Once you have switched to prepaid, do you no longer have to pay the service charge and network charge to COJ?

1 hour ago, Reet said:

Hi guys

Once you have switched to prepaid, do you no longer have to pay the service charge and network charge to COJ?

No*

You pay more per kWh, but there are not flat fees*. If you use a lot of electricity it will actually be cheaper to remain on post paid. Download the tariffs, get some historic data from your bills and do the numbers. Most households will save on pre-paid

* All of this as the state right now. For the last 3 years the City has hinted at introducing a flat fee for pre-paid electricity. This would be added to your rates. The first year they said it had been added to the budget after signing off (yeah right!). The next year they passed it in the budget, but then immediately dropped it as part of their COVID relief. The third year it was talked about (as were things like rebates for indigent users), but in the end it never happened. But both COJ and Eskom are saying, and they have a point, that it costs them just as much money to supply a connection to a pre-paid property as to a post-paid, so I doubt we have heard the end of this. BUT they don't have to read your meter not run accounts, so when it happens it should be lower than the fees applied to post-paid accounts.

On 2023/03/25 at 2:07 PM, Bobster. said:

No*

You pay more per kWh, but there are not flat fees*. If you use a lot of electricity it will actually be cheaper to remain on post paid. Download the tariffs, get some historic data from your bills and do the numbers. Most households will save on pre-paid

* All of this as the state right now. For the last 3 years the City has hinted at introducing a flat fee for pre-paid electricity. This would be added to your rates. The first year they said it had been added to the budget after signing off (yeah right!). The next year they passed it in the budget, but then immediately dropped it as part of their COVID relief. The third year it was talked about (as were things like rebates for indigent users), but in the end it never happened. But both COJ and Eskom are saying, and they have a point, that it costs them just as much money to supply a connection to a pre-paid property as to a post-paid, so I doubt we have heard the end of this. BUT they don't have to read your meter not run accounts, so when it happens it should be lower than the fees applied to post-paid accounts.

See

https://www.joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/Tariffs 2022-2023/Electricity Tariff.pdf

CoJ left off the DSM levy in the above PDF.

I've plotted the data:

In CoJ, for 2022/2023, seems Pre-paid is always cheaper (unless I made a mistake with my Excel)

Thanks for checking. 

I did the calculations at least 2 years ago, with different tariffs and with different brackets for pre-paid. I think it started getting cheaper on post paid at quite a high figure (north of 8000 kwH IIRC), and probably not a figure that any household is likely to get to.

Even now I think that at some point the higher per unit costs for pre-paid are going to outweigh the monthly fixed fees at some point, though, again, quite a high point.

On 2023/03/25 at 12:24 PM, Reet said:

Hi guys

Once you have switched to prepaid, do you no longer have to pay the service charge and network charge to COJ?

Nope, Prepaid pay's no connection fees in COJ (Tswane, Eskom etc does).

You just pay for the power you use! A legacy of an ANC policy put in place to buy votes I suspect just before elections, that nobody in charge has had the guts to change yet and long may it last 🙂 

10 hours ago, Bobster. said:

Thanks for checking. 

I did the calculations at least 2 years ago, with different tariffs and with different brackets for pre-paid. I think it started getting cheaper on post paid at quite a high figure (north of 8000 kwH IIRC), and probably not a figure that any household is likely to get to.

Even now I think that at some point the higher per unit costs for pre-paid are going to outweigh the monthly fixed fees at some point, though, again, quite a high point.

I am on 3-Phase pre-paid, when I did the calculations +- 2 years ago, there was no point below 5,000kw/hr usage a month where pre-paid was more than post-paid

On 2022/12/06 at 8:27 AM, Bobster. said:

I should think you'd have to show your face. The City does require that you present in person and that you are verified against an ID document and their records because only the property owner may request a change of tariff and sign all the consent forms.

If you paid a 3rd party and they took care of everything then there is probably a ... gratuity... built into their fee.

One thing you have to be careful of is not running out of units. This occurs all the time where I live. The meter runs out. You grab your phone and buy more units. But now you can't load them because the meter has shut down the supply to your house and isn't talking to the CIU. Apparently there is a way around this, but it's not straightforward. Better to monitor your usage and buy just in time. Remembering that the stepped charges reset on the first of the month, so if it's the 28th, try to buy just enough, not 500 units that will carry over into next month (and they will, but you've paid a higher price for them).

@Bobster. If you install batteries into the keypad you can recharge power when the street side box has turned the power of due to lack of credits 🙂 . 

I know because I had to run around looking for batteries to put in the thing in the dark and it definitely works

 

Thanks @Sc00bs and you couldn’t apply for the switchover online right? You had to physically complete forms and go hand them in? That’s the only way I can see from looking online. 

1 hour ago, Reet said:

Thanks @Sc00bs and you couldn’t apply for the switchover online right? You had to physically complete forms and go hand them in? That’s the only way I can see from looking online. 

I did mine about 3 years ago, I had to go in to my local office, fill in the form, pay the money and wait in the que.

Was relatively painless but did take a few hours. Go in the middle of the month when it is quieter. 

However, it does look like from the website that you can now submit the application via email and can convert up to a 3-Phase 80A connection.

This is for City of Johannesburg connection only:  

The fully completed and signed application form as well as the supporting documents mentioned in the guideline can be submitted to Customer Services via email (in PDF format). Should the supporting documents not be submitted, it will result in a delay in processing the application. Please use the email address for the Region in which the property requiring the service connection is situated."

Region A - [email protected]

Region B - [email protected]

Region C - [email protected]

Region D - [email protected]

Region E - [email protected]

Region F - regionFrevenue@joburg.org.za

Region G - [email protected]

 

https://www.citypower.co.za/customers/Pages/Service-Connection-Application-Process-.aspx

Guideline to convert to prepaid.pdf

Application form.pdf

Edited April 1, 20233 yr by Sc00bs
Added application form

@Sc00bs gold, thank you!

13 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

@Bobster. If you install batteries into the keypad you can recharge power when the street side box has turned the power of due to lack of credits 🙂 . 

I know because I had to run around looking for batteries to put in the thing in the dark and it definitely works

 

I know that. I was just describing a common problem in my neighbourhood, I do think that some meters may turn off when credit hits zero. A COJ councillor provided a procedure for getting the units loaded.

What I don't get is people not checking the meter to see if their balance is low. Mine starts beeping and has a ref flashing LED to alert you to a low credit. I watched mine a lot early on because I didn't know how much electricity we were using and when, but after that I would just check it mid month to see how I was going.

Another common myth in these parts is that the price changes all the time. I doesn't. It's just that there's a stepped tariff in place. The first 350 units you buy in the month are cheapest, and thereafter the price per unit starts going up. So you Could get less units for the same money if you top up during the month.

Finally, a tip at City Power electrician gave me recently and that applies to us with solar: Do not go 90 days without loading something onto your meter. Once you get to 90 days the City's systems stop recognising the meter and will no longer issue you with a token. So buy a small amount every couple of months.

 

4 hours ago, Reet said:

Thanks @Sc00bs and you couldn’t apply for the switchover online right? You had to physically complete forms and go hand them in? That’s the only way I can see from looking online. 

You have to present at a municipal office. They need to validate that the person requesting the changeover is the property owner or has been given power of attorney by the owner.

Also they will not convert you to pre-paid if there are any disputes about any component of your bill.

I did mine years ago. It involved a bit of waiting in queues, but was otherwise quite painless. The other trick is to be at home when the technician arrives to do first the evaluation of the job, then to do the job (if you accept the quote). They don't call, they just turn up.

They will pop in from time to time to check your meter. They have that right. So they will inspect the meter, make sure the serial number is correct for the stand, and that there's no attempt to bypass it. There are various schemes involving moving meters between properties, or connecting just one or two circuits in your home directly to the municipal feed so that you still run up some consumption on the meter, but not all that you consume.

Edited April 1, 20233 yr by Bobster.

13 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

I am on 3-Phase pre-paid, when I did the calculations +- 2 years ago, there was no point below 5,000kw/hr usage a month where pre-paid was more than post-paid

I did my calculations a couple of years ago, and there was point (this was for single phase, 60A) when post paid got cheaper. But it was quite a high point - or my calculations were wrong!

Last night I did fresh calculations with the latest tariffs, and there seems to be no point at which you do not save, on the current tariffs. The saving is higher for low consuming properties.  

This is a good deal for consumers and for the city. The consumer gets a saving, the City gets better cash flow.

4 hours ago, Reet said:

Thanks @Sc00bs and you couldn’t apply for the switchover online right? You had to physically complete forms and go hand them in? That’s the only way I can see from looking online. 

Something I forgot: At the point of switch over you will still have a post-paid balance that has to be settled. This happened to me, but I had anticipated it. So for 2 months I was settling post-paid and having to feed the meter. But on the third month I got a credit for electricity, and since then there has been no electricity component on my invoice. 

There was a cost for the installation. I recovered this after about 3 months, and thereafter was saving money. It is a no-brainer as long as you are able to cope with the first couple of months where you are paying for what you used in the past whilst you also feed the meter. After that is just savings all the way, and no more estimates.

25 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

Finally, a tip at City Power electrician gave me recently and that applies to us with solar: Do not go 90 days without loading something onto your meter. Once you get to 90 days the City's systems stop recognising the meter and will no longer issue you with a token. So buy a small amount every couple of months.

 

Because it is a stepped rate and I use very little power over summer and more over winter. I but the maximum amount without going buying power at the higher rate and stock up a bit over summer so I don't have to buy at the higher rate over winter. Almost 30c extra per kw/hr when you go from level 2 - level 3 so if you are using more than 500kw/hr a month in winter but less in summer makes sense to stock up.

Just to add, I changed to CoJ prepaid in 2010, and even then up to ~2000kWh it was cheaper than Post Paid.

The R/kWh is controlled by NERSA, whereas the Service Charge and Network Charge are not, so CoJ has been bumping these up at a higher rate.

AFAIK, CoJ Service fee and Network fee are high compared to other metropolitan areas.

CoJ had been trying for the last two years to introduce a fixed fee for pre-paid, but in order to do so, they need to reduce the R/kWh. Keep a look out for CoJ to try again and object.