Nexuss Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 The problem is most likely not from the system being under load while the upgrade was done but because the wrong firmware was flashed. This is totally their fault. Ive had about 5 firmware updates in the last 2 years all of them under load ,not anywhere was it stated that the systems load has to be disconnected. I am willing to bet they do 99% of the firmware upgrades while under load. mzezman and JuliusK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzezman Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Nexuss said: The problem is most likely not from the system being under load while the upgrade was done but because the wrong firmware was flashed. This is totally their fault. Ive had about 5 firmware updates in the last 2 years all of them under load ,not anywhere was it stated that the systems load has to be disconnected. I am willing to bet they do 99% of the firmware upgrades while under load. I had 2 updates done last week on both an old and new 5kw and both were done while load was running...so this is jut a cop out in my view - nevertheless they (sunsynk) messed up the upgrade, bricked the inverter and should reimburse / provide recourse to the user JuliusK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAP Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Ja no look. AFAIK it is not mentioned on the page where one requests the FW upgrade. 100% off this on the guys at Sunsynk. Now he has to deal with the unknown time frame for repairs. That was not his fault. Not sure where you're coming from with your stance on this. And anyway it does not matter if there was a load or not. They flashed the wrong FW. They can get fscked. JuliusK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) Logic would tell you, if you want to update the firmware and overwrite the eeprom, only the inferter and the battery should be running. Disconnect everything else, especially any load on the inverter. Or do people think it is wise to do this while the inverter is trying to manage 3kW of load in the background? After the firmware upgrade, the inverter probably needs to be re-booted in any case. I have never seen a doctor trying to do a knee replacement while a guy is busy doing a marathon. Edited April 13, 2023 by Don Leshen and Yellow Measure 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzezman Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Don said: Logic would tell you, if you want to update the firmware and overwrite the eeprom, only the inferter and the battery should be running. Disconnect everything else, especially any load on the inverter. Or do people think it is wise to do this while the inverter is trying to manage 3kW of load in the background? I have never seen a doctor trying to do a knee replacement while a guy is doing a marathon. This is a bit disingenuous given that: its not stated on the SS website where a normal user would go to request the firmware - not even in fine print, as a pop up or warning other upgrades have been done with load and not crashed the inverter one cannot schedule the install - you request and they perform it when they can - they don't even give you a time window, e.g. between 1 and 2 pm tomorrow Unlike a windows / cellphone firmware update that tells you that your PC will need to reboot - that you need to save your work and that you wont be able to use it (or you will in the case of some updates) while the upgrade is going on. zsde and system32 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexuss Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Don said: Logic would tell you, if you want to update the firmware and overwrite the eeprom, only the inferter and the battery should be running. Disconnect everything else, especially any load on the inverter. Or do people think it is wise to do this while the inverter is trying to manage 3kW of load in the background? I have never seen a doctor trying to do a knee replacement while a guy is doing a marathon. It does not matter what we think ,this should be stated in bold red letters on the firmware request page if its important, i have even asked them to notify me by email before they do the update so i can make sure no large loads are running but nope they just do it when it suits them no communication. mzezman and zsde 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAP Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, mzezman said: This is a bit disingenuous given that: its not stated on the SS website where a normal user would go to request the firmware - not even in fine print, as a pop up or warning other upgrades have been done with load and not crashed the inverter one cannot schedule the install - you request and they perform it when they can - they don't even give you a time window, e.g. between 1 and 2 pm tomorrow Unlike a windows / cellphone firmware update that tells you that your PC will need to reboot - that you need to save your work and that you wont be able to use it (or you will in the case of some updates) while the upgrade is going on. mzezman and system32 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, mzezman said: This is a bit disingenuous given that: The only thing that is disingenuous is that they do a firmware upgrade irrespective of the state of the inverter, i.e. running at full load, when it suits them. 5 minutes ago, mzezman said: other upgrades have been done with load and not crashed the inverter Therefore, 10 people have jumped over a cliff and 5 have survived, therefore it is safe to jump over the cliff? mzezman and zsde 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzezman Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 19 minutes ago, Don said: The only thing that is disingenuous is that they do a firmware upgrade irrespective of the state of the inverter, i.e. running at full load, when it suits them. Therefore, 10 people have jumped over a cliff and 5 have survived, therefore it is safe to jump over the cliff? Then they need to sort out their actual process for applying a firmware update and let the end users know. Then also put in place safeguards (for the end users and for themselves as well). zsde 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 minute ago, mzezman said: Then they need to sort out their actual process for applying a firmware update and let the end users know. Then also put in place safeguards (for the end users and for themselves as well). 100%. The ideal scenario is they phone you and say, i.e., disconnect solar panels, disconnect all loads. Once you confirm they should say, right we will now upgrade the firmware and it will take 10 minutes, please be patient. Please inform me should the display go out or whatever. Once done, they should confirm if everything is still fine on your side. Then instruct you to either reboot the inverter or if it is not required, to re-connect the solar panels and thereafter the loads. Then if everything seems to be running 100%, confirm the new firmware was installed on the inverter, then hang up. mzezman and JuliusK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 3 hours ago, JuliusK said: Can anyone join the Segen Support Group or is it for installers only? Just curious, would be great to get readily available info? It’s for installers only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusK Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 24 minutes ago, Leshen said: It’s for installers only Thanks for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warick_wrx Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 Wonder if the same proceedure would need to be applied to Deye inverter's if one elects to flash the firmware ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve87 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I think most Sunsynk operators & owners now need to start asking the question: Is the Sunsynk worth the Xtra bucks ? I have seen this exercise with Livoltek setting up a presence here in SA. It's very nice to have an address locally & say that you are present in the country. However, when most of your support is remotely not in that country, then are you really there or have you just setup an office with a name on the building & installed a glorified satellite office with a few staff. No disrespect or scrutiny on Sunsynk, but if this RMA problems continue then I honestly say that one of these days guys like @BritishRacingGreen& others will start reverse engineering these machines to allow people to fix these machines themselves or at least have other sources of repair instead of the actual manufacturers or rebrander in Sunsynks case. I cannot tell you how many different versions of the different models there are. Some have the ATS 240 & others don't. Comms ports change at random. I think it's a massive headache for the support staff themselves. What we have is chaos. If I need to wait for 2 or 3 months for an RMA I will definitely open the machine myself & attempt a fix. Nothing to lose except a few more months of frustration. If anyone has a banged up machine please donate, I can't promise magic but we need to get independent here. Exactly the same as @Coulomb& @BritishRacingGreenhave made the humble Axpert. In the week I chatted with @BritishRacingGreenhe repaired a machine that was 7 years old that needed a new capacitor. Now 7 years is a long time & the machine needed a simple fix. Probably it will run another 7 yrs.... WE need this type of independence here in SA because manufacturers are really advertising one thing & then delivering something totally different in reality. Marc FH, p_i, Etiennet and 5 others 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Strachan Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 17 hours ago, abd7 said: I've done firmware upgrades successfully without switching off load. There was no mention of this from sunsynk. This was in the middle of the night though so loads of around 1kw. I have just had an update done to my 8kw Sunsynk and eskom was on during the update and all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusK Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 33 minutes ago, Nicholas Strachan said: I have just had an update done to my 8kw Sunsynk and eskom was on during the update and all good. Glad all went well for you! Thanks for the update. Nicholas Strachan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 20 hours ago, PowerUser said: Have you done a SunSynk installer course? I understand not all end users can do that, but then in such case, one must get himself familiar with the proper procedures or rely on an installer to do everything and not mess up the things. I'm afraid, SunSynk are correct when they say most of their inverter repair issues are caused by end users and it's not the hardware fault. And I'm sorry to say, but it's extremely unethical when end users who don't understand the systems and correct procedures, come on public forums to rant about a company's "bad service" and even "demand" loan hardware when they they messed it up. SunSynk shouldn't honor any warranty claims in such cases. In the highlighted text, I assume you referring to the OP's issue where SunSynk broke the inverter by installing 5k firmware on a 8k inverter. I fail to see how this can be anything but 100% SunSynk's fault. I would expect SunSynk to go the extra mile (as it's 100% their fault) to resolve the issue promptly without inconvenience or cost to the customer. In terms of your other comments wrt to isolating the inverter for a firmware update (no load and no PV) Most of the forum members would agree that If an inverter malfunctions during firmware upgraded when it's not in bypass - that's 100% SynSynk/Deye fault Because: a) the official SynSynk link for upgrades does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.sunsynk.org/up-grade b) the official SynSynk user / installer manual does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.sunsynk.org/documents/ Sunsynk_Hybrid_Inverter_8kW_UserManual_v24_English.pdf c) the official SynSynk training manuals does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.sunsynk.org/post/training-manuals Part 1 Training Manual Sunsynk - HQ.pdf Part 2 Training Manual Sunsynk - HQ.pdf e) the official SynSynk training videos (and there are many and I've watched most of them) does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.youtube.com/@sunsynk5885 f) The official SynSynk technician actually doing the firmware update should check if the inverter is in bypass. (They should definitely check that the firmware is correct for the model inverter) g) It is not practical to put the inverter in bypass and just wait... and wait... and wait... 12h, 24h, 48h and hope that the update gets done remotely when SunSynk decides they have time. h) The Sengen Application Note you link to states "Sunsynk will perform an update, this will reset the inverter. Ensure you are not supplying loads with the inverter." The way I interpret the statement is "the inverter will reset during the firmware update process and if you are supplying loads these will go off so bypass to prevent your loads being impacted" I work in IT and have done plenty of firmware updates in my career - computers, routers, printers, cameras, storage arrays, disk drives, network switches, CPU microcode, HBAs, NICs, RAID Controllers, motherboards, fabric switches, firewalls, phones, DRACs, iLOMS, etc. The first thing you check is that the firmware is for that model hardware or else you end up "bricking" the device. Most newer update systems and firmware will auto-check compatibility first and not allow invalid updates. SunSynk was released in "newer" age but still uses "older" design of not auto-checking. Q. When is SunSynk going to provide firmware change logs to installers & public? Nexuss, Kalahari Cruiser, abd7 and 10 others 11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAP Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 2 hours ago, system32 said: In the highlighted text, I assume you referring to the OP's issue where SunSynk broke the inverter by installing 5k firmware on a 8k inverter. I fail to see how this can be anything but 100% SunSynk's fault. I would expect SunSynk to go the extra mile (as it's 100% their fault) to resolve the issue promptly without inconvenience or cost to the customer. In terms of your other comments wrt to isolating the inverter for a firmware update (no load and no PV) Most of the forum members would agree that If an inverter malfunctions during firmware upgraded when it's not in bypass - that's 100% SynSynk/Deye fault Because: a) the official SynSynk link for upgrades does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.sunsynk.org/up-grade b) the official SynSynk user / installer manual does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.sunsynk.org/documents/ Sunsynk_Hybrid_Inverter_8kW_UserManual_v24_English.pdf c) the official SynSynk training manuals does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.sunsynk.org/post/training-manuals Part 1 Training Manual Sunsynk - HQ.pdf Part 2 Training Manual Sunsynk - HQ.pdf e) the official SynSynk training videos (and there are many and I've watched most of them) does not state that the inverter needs to be in bypass. https://www.youtube.com/@sunsynk5885 f) The official SynSynk technician actually doing the firmware update should check if the inverter is in bypass. (They should definitely check that the firmware is correct for the model inverter) g) It is not practical to put the inverter in bypass and just wait... and wait... and wait... 12h, 24h, 48h and hope that the update gets done remotely when SunSynk decides they have time. h) The Sengen Application Note you link to states "Sunsynk will perform an update, this will reset the inverter. Ensure you are not supplying loads with the inverter." The way I interpret the statement is "the inverter will reset during the firmware update process and if you are supplying loads these will go off so bypass to prevent your loads being impacted" I work in IT and have done plenty of firmware updates in my career - computers, routers, printers, cameras, storage arrays, disk drives, network switches, CPU microcode, HBAs, NICs, RAID Controllers, motherboards, fabric switches, firewalls, phones, DRACs, iLOMS, etc. The first thing you check is that the firmware is for that model hardware or else you end up "bricking" the device. Most newer update systems and firmware will auto-check compatibility first and not allow invalid updates. SunSynk was released in "newer" age but still uses "older" design of not auto-checking. Q. When is SunSynk going to provide firmware change logs to installers & public? Great post thank you. If one is still of another opinion after your post then IDFK. system32, mzezman and JuliusK 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, Don said: Logic would tell you, if you want to update the firmware and overwrite the eeprom, only the inferter and the battery should be running. Disconnect everything else, especially any load on the inverter. Or do people think it is wise to do this while the inverter is trying to manage 3kW of load in the background? After the firmware upgrade, the inverter probably needs to be re-booted in any case. I have never seen a doctor trying to do a knee replacement while a guy is busy doing a marathon. Can't compare a knee replacement with a firmware update. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity If load or PV were an issue, the inverter would, and probably does, programmatically disable/shut load and disable/shut PV before starting a firmware update and re-enable on reboot. The ability to programmatically disable/shut load exists in the inverter as seen on this settings screen: PV is controlled by the MPPT and can also be disabled during firmware update process. Firmware updates fall into two categories: Online - The device will upload the new firmware to RAM/staging area, stop all services, flash the firmware, reboot Offline - Place the device in a limited offline mode and update firmware (eg boot to u-boot and use bootp/tftp) There are some variations on the methods. Edited April 14, 2023 by system32 JuliusK, abd7, Antonio de Sa and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moffat Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 2023/04/13 at 6:04 PM, Don said: 100%. The ideal scenario is they phone you and say, i.e., disconnect solar panels, disconnect all loads. Once you confirm they should say, right we will now upgrade the firmware and it will take 10 minutes, please be patient. Please inform me should the display go out or whatever. Once done, they should confirm if everything is still fine on your side. Then instruct you to either reboot the inverter or if it is not required, to re-connect the solar panels and thereafter the loads. Then if everything seems to be running 100%, confirm the new firmware was installed on the inverter, then hang up. Why can they (Sunsynk) not just then give firmware to "Authorized Installers only", that way it is done with someone who is closer to the customer and can handle or arrange convenient times to either push the firmware remotely or do so "in person"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusK Posted April 15, 2023 Author Share Posted April 15, 2023 8 hours ago, Moffat said: Why can they (Sunsynk) not just then give firmware to "Authorized Installers only", that way it is done with someone who is closer to the customer and can handle or arrange convenient times to either push the firmware remotely or do so "in person"? Your suggestion is not unreasonable. But in our day and age where everyone including my mom has done a software update on their phone, we could manage these ourselves if the system was designed / programmed with that in mind. My ideal scenario in a perfect world would be that you register your inverter with Sunsynk upon installation. Then Sunsynk emails you with an update stating that there is new firmware available for your version of inverter, or even a pop up comes up in your app? Then you could walk over to the inverter and select the Update Software in the menu option on the inverter display. The inverter then checks in with home base, downloads the latest firmware and asks if you would like to proceed with the update now or later? Reminding you that when you do the update it (the inverter) will disconnect all loads for the duration of the upgrade. Do you wish to proceed? All of the above could also be handled within your app, following the exact same process. I don't think that this is an unreasonable expectation in our day and age and level of technology that we are exposed to on a daily basis. Why should firmware updates still be done manually in the factory in China? mzezman and Baksteen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 I contacted Sunsynk now. Here is a snapshot of the messages. werner.potgieter and JuliusK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAP Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, Leshen said: I contacted Sunsynk now. Here is a snapshot of the messages. JuliusK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, WAP said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus_m2 Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 Sunsynk has an excellent reputation locally, but recent support issues has that reputation (no longer so) slowly waning... As alluded to in a previous post, having a local support centre means F-all if this is the level of support we get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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