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Axpert VM III

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Just now, Gnome said:

There are some people on on MyBB that had theirs in 2014, but the older users are on the Australian forum.

Would it be better if it were 4 years? What if 3 years from now people are still running their without a problem?

Again it comes across as you trying really hard to hate on this thing.

He's not trying really hard. He simply hates it with passion ;)

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20 minutes ago, Gnome said:

... hate on this thing.

Hate no. Mistrust, yes. Questioning it all the time, most definitely yes. So keeping an open mind holding my biased opinion to myself, I decided to chat direct with Voltronic ... eish. 

The brand I support today, has only one negative, price. 

Am a zealot ito the brand I support? Ask @flamegrilled . He pointed me in in a new direction i.e. Solis. Support, price and all that are WAY cheaper than my preferred brand. 

So no, I do not hate. Am not a zealot either, am wide open for new devices, even if they are cheaper ... just not Voltronic. :D

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28 minutes ago, Gnome said:

What happened?

It is on the other thread. People emailed them asking question re. the Axpert. No response whatsoever.

Coulomb makes a comment about they only reply on sales. Idea popped to mind. So I emailed them, wanting to buy a lot of inverters. Suddenly they where very helpful ... that's how we found out no paperwork, some CE self certification status and they sell the Axpert range as off grid inverters.

Ps. Check what inverters I proposed to be sold in the PF shop. :)
Pss. The one massively good thing about Axpert ... forced down my preferred brand's price. :-) 
Psss. And now I see Solis is on the list, with a Hybrid arriving next year ... which will most probably be on the The List. 

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1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Mistrust

It's a rather difficult thing to analyse. Mixed emotions is the right word for it.

First, there is the proven phenomenon that a high purchase price tends to colour your judgement. If you paid a lot for a product, you will convince yourself that it is good. For this reason new car surveys are done among people who's had the car for at least 6 months, to give this effect time to wear off.

There's the Toyota vs Isuzu battle. Both good cars, but the Hilux costs quite a bit more. Really for no reason than because they (Toyota) can, or rather, because if Isuzu priced theirs any higher they wouldn't sell.

Conversely there is the well known saying that you get what you pay for, and that "goedkoop is duurkoop".

The challenge is to figure out where you lie on this continuum.

Now consider again an argument I made before. How much do MLT inverters sell for? Microcare? Outback? Goodwe? Imeon? Meanwell? SMA? Maybe with Cotek you sort of approach the lower end, but that has no transfer switch or charger. The Axpert is consistently cheaper than anything on the market. Any reasonable person would ask the obvious question: What's the catch?

I think I have it figured out though. The catch is 1) little or no support, and 2) really low profit margins. Probably two sides to the same coin.

Another side to this story. Some months ago I bought a second hand tool that's somewhat important in our business. When I arrived to pick it up, the seller explained how he's completely disillusioned with the solar business and how the whole thing caused nothing but misery and a loss of good money. He's getting rid of everything. I held my pose and said nothing... he had bought a cheap inverter, one that was even cheaper than the cheap one here, and of course the experience was just horrible.

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38 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Mixed emotions is the right word for it.

Eish ... 

it is simple. In small words: Mistrust as in trust is earned, mistrust when that is lost ... or rather distrust. But you get my point.

No mixed emotions either. I know what I want - not like I am not sure if I feel like coffee or tea.
Know which side of the fence I stand on - for putting a foot on both sides leaves ones center piece in danger when that wire wips around. 
And no to, because I paid more therefor I FEEL it is better and must justify the debt, guilt feelings or whatever we want to call it.

Trust is earned, like by my brand before I bought and consistently thereafter. Even when I royally messed up with the accompanying fanfare, they helped, laughed and even shed tears with me.

I still drive my Isuzu even after it apparently needed a new alternator last year. No spare parts for it they said.
Last month it turns out it has a part called a water pump thingy or whatever that allegedly is used for cooling or some such nonses. It has a moerse big fan for Pete's sake.
It can break after 19 years ... THEY said.
Gmpf, what do THEY know about MY Granny Wagon!?
Money making racket if you ask me. 19 years and now it breaks. What snot. I see them coming a mile away. They want me to buy that expensive Toyota ... 19 years ... it is still young.

Read my post on my Nokia experience. Not the most expensive phone, and it is Windows 10 on top of that! 
Or my Logitech kbd and no 7 key clippy the I broke after some wine tried to type on the kbd?
...  the support I got from both these companies earned my trust.

Imagine I get a Axpert today:
- Little to no support from Mustek (that's where I would have bought) at the levels I am used to today. 
- No support from the manufacturer either, as I currently enjoy.
- No auto firmware updates to solve known problems ... must get that from a awesome forum (!) that I accidentally came across desperately Googling for help.
- And no-one can tell me exactly what I need to do to register my solar panels as off-grid with the Axpert.

I don't hate them ... I just don't trust that I will get what I need from them when I need that help - without the forum.

But I still like my main brand ... even though my BMV's relay will not be addressed, forcing me to sniff around at the cheap Solis brand.

Any confusion left of where I stand on feelings, cars and trust? :P

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On 2018/08/15 at 3:55 PM, The Terrible Triplett said:

Soooo ... that makes Plonkster and I the "oldest" solar users on this forum, using the oldest equipment, ito inverters?

Me at 6 (2012) and @plonkster at 5 (2013) ... who else? 

 

Does a 110VDC motor driving a Monopump and powered by 9 x 40W Photowatt panels count? :P If it does then 1982 and I have to admit it was my old man who installed it but I spent my fair share  of time troubleshooting it.

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6 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

If it does then 1982 ... but I spent my fair share of time troubleshooting it.

Ok, it counts ... :-)

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39 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

And no to, because I paid more therefor I FEEL it is better and must justify the debt, guilt feelings or whatever we want to call it.

Yeah, look carefully. I kinda sorta said that sort of thing blows over after a few months. People generally don't keep their irrational belief in an expensive product past 12 months. And those people don't buy another one when the time comes. Again, people who buy a Hilux tend to buy another one in a few years. Same for Isuzu really. Their owners are happy and remain in the stable. Occasionally one of them goes... mmmh... I'll try a  Ford Ranger for a bit... and those who do tend to return to the fold soon after.

Interestingly Ranger drivers have no problem trying another one :-)

(Let's see how many toes I just stepped on).

 

46 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

even though my BMV's relay will not be addressed

It's addressed to the level where a sufficiently interested party can use it. Not enough of a business use case to do anything more at this point.

 

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2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

It's addressed to the level where a sufficiently interested party can use it. Not enough of a business use case to do anything more at this point.

Clear, to the point leaving no doubts, a tint of hope.

With no bets placed at this point in time. 

I accept. Thank you. Respect.

 

For those who may be wondering 'what are they on about'?
I submitted a one in all the BMV's ever sold request to Victron, to add a feature where the relay can be switched, with user changeable parameters of:
2 times settings - like before 8am or after 4pm
If power from panels have been increasing since before 8am or decreasing after 4pm.
If SOC is X at <8am
OR SOC is Y at >4pm
To switch the BMV's relay.

Second best option was to be able to switch the relay via a VenusGX software interface, manually.

Being a one usage case in all the BMV's ever sold, for a very particular application, at least they talked about it. Cannot ask for more ... yet I know the idea is planted, maybe something comes from this when more people start asking for it or another person has a application that needs more functionality from the relay that justifies this effort on their part.

Cannot have asked for more. 

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7 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

For those who may be wondering 'what are they on about'?

Basically a feature was added so the various configuration registers of vedirect devices can be set remotely. The target is remote configuration. One of those registers happens to be the one that controls the relay when in manual mode. So the target was never the relay... it just happens to be a possible use case. Hence, no extra effort is going into this direction... the other more general one is the important one. :-)

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Hello,

I am using Axpert VM III 3kva. before this i was using Axpert MKS 5kva. This new model of Axpert VM III mix the utility and solar for the output. that is great feature. but i have seen a issue that is 

My batteries are full and consumption is less then generation and my setting is on SUB, but my system use 1.11 amp from the Utility. then i have changed the output setting to SBU. now my utiltiy usage is zero (0). and my solar run the utility.

Now i have to change the setting in morning 7AM to SBU and then SUB at 5PM to get the maximum benefit.

I think this 1.11 amp in operating amp for VM III but it should be use from solar or battery.

Anyone can help me to tell me any software that can run on raspberry pi on which i can set the timer for that setting e.g. from 7AM to 5 PM setting should be SBU and then after 5PM setting should be SUB.

Right now i am using SOLPIPLOG on raspberry pi.

 

Thanks

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1 hour ago, Salman said:

I think this 1.11 amp in operating amp for VM III but it should be use from solar or battery.

Before you get too concerned, get a proper power meter and check if that 1.11 amp really translate to actual power use. Depending on the actual power factor, the actual use might not be 250W, it might be way less. Reason I say this: Had exactly this issue with a customer who complained that the meter is incorrect as it shows 2A and only 40W. Turns out that when running grid-tied it has a really really really low power factor (because it is attempting to run at zero) and this was actually accurate.

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1 hour ago, Salman said:

My batteries are full and consumption is less then generation and my setting is on SUB, but my system use 1.11 amp from the Utility. then i have changed the output setting to SBU. now my utiltiy usage is zero (0). and my solar run the utility.

Plonkster assumes that this 1.11 A or 0 A is measured at the AC input, but I suspect it may not be. Where and how exactly is this measured?

Edited by Coulomb
"suspect not" -> "suspect may not be"

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10 hours ago, plonkster said:

Before you get too concerned, get a proper power meter and check if that 1.11 amp really translate to actual power use. Depending on the actual power factor, the actual use might not be 250W, it might be way less. Reason I say this: Had exactly this issue with a customer who complained that the meter is incorrect as it shows 2A and only 40W. Turns out that when running grid-tied it has a really really really low power factor (because it is attempting to run at zero) and this was actually accurate.

Hi Coulomb,

I am using UNI-T amp meter. and I just check the amp from my utility input to my inverter. I do not know about power factor, how i can check the power factor.

As per me understanding my inverter is using:  1.11 * 230 = 255W.

Image result for uni-t amp meter 203

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42 minutes ago, Salman said:

I am using UNI-T amp meter.

Heh. I have the very same model.

Quote

and I just check the amp from my utility input to my inverter.

Ok, so that is AC input current.

Quote

I do not know about power factor, how i can check the power factor.

As per me understanding my inverter is using:  1.11 * 230 = 255W.

Ok, so this is some fundamental electrical theory; there will be other threads covering this much better than I can.

Briefly, what you have is 255 VA (Volt-Amps, apparent power), not necessarily, and almost certainly nothing like, 255 Watts of real power. How much apparent power is real, and how much is imaginary (imaginary power is a "real thing"), depends on the phase of the current in relation to the voltage. It might even be that the current waveform isn't sinusoidal at all, but perhaps narrow pulses, which can result in an effect similar to imaginary power, but I'd expect there to be a Power Factor Correction stage with a large power supply like the Axpert's AC charger. There is probably a largish LC (inductor-capacitor) smoothing network to prevent most of the switching transients from radiating out of the AC input, causing problems with your stereo system. At low charge power, this causes some current (the 1.1 A you see) to flow at nearly 90° to the voltage, which means that instantaneous power flows to and from the AC input 100 times per second, averaging nearly zero real power.

You only pay for real power, so it's unlikely that it's worth much effort attempting to overcome this apparent power draw. In fact, any attempt will likely thwart one of the features of this model, the zero time switch-over from battery to mains.

Edit: as to how to measure power factor and/or real power, you need a proper power meter. These always have a voltage connection as well as a current measurement; you can't measure power with any sort of clamp meter. The most accessible power meters will be designed to plug in series with a power cord; this won't work readily with an Axpert installation.

Edited by Coulomb
Added last paragraph.

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44 minutes ago, Salman said:

how i can check the power factor

Coulomb covered the basics about real power and apparent power. What remains is checking it. By far the cheapest method in my experience is a cheap plug-in meter, such as a Kill-a-Watt or similar. Not sure what will be available in your local market. Those are usually capable of calculating real power and can sometimes even show you the apparent power, and power factor as well. Of course this will mean temporarily rewiring the input to the inverter to go through this thing, but it is by far the cheapest way if you only want to do one measurement.

Beyond that it gets quite expensive. The next best option is a permanent power meter such as the Carlo Gavazzi ET112, but those require modbus cabling and software to read them, it has no LCD screen. This meter is still significantly cheaper than the nice diagnostic stuff that professionals use :-)

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Thank you Coulomb and plonkster,

I will defiantly buy the kill-a-watt to get the actual watts that my solar inverter VM III is getting. I am getting some hope from yours (both of you) input that this inverer is not getting 255 Watts (1.11 * 230).

As my avg load is 650 to 750 watts (in this winter season) and my panels are 2080 Watts (8*260). my panels can produce upto 1500 to 1600 watts in peak. and if my inverter getting 255 w from utility then that will not affordable for me.

Right now for the safe side i am switching my inverter to SBU in morning and then SOL in evening. by doing this my inverter run load through bypass in evening and solar and battery in morning.

Anyone can help me to changing the output source (SOL to SBU / SBU to SOL) automatically using any software or script that can i run in raspberry pi.

Thanks.

 

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I was also facing a similar issue with my Infini 3KW+, so I ordered a din rail energy meter that can measure actual energy consumption from grid. This energy meter can measure volts, amps, watts, power factor and also kwh, so it should give a more accurate picture of the Infini's actual power consumption.

 

HTB1Z880jJzJ8KJjSspkq6zF7VXaG.jpg

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On 2018/06/12 at 11:57 AM, Gnome said:

Hi all

Not sure if others have noticed, but Voltronic Power have released a new version of the Axpert inverters.

Inverter_Axpert-VMIII_R_Side-300x300.jpg

Anyone have one of these or know where they can be purchased from?

ACDC Stocks it, Part No. VM3-5000-48. At least they had stock in Jan '19

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Hi! I have a doubt about the detachable lcd screen of new Voltronic Axpert inverters.

It can be detached and put in other place through a UTP cable (RJ45).

My doubt is if that cable could travel trough a internet switch and the screen will continue working.

Has someone tried it?

 

Thanks

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On 2018/09/27 at 10:02 PM, Salman said:

Hello,

I am using Axpert VM III 3kva. before this i was using Axpert MKS 5kva. This new model of Axpert VM III mix the utility and solar for the output. that is great feature. but i have seen a issue that is 

My batteries are full and consumption is less then generation and my setting is on SUB, but my system use 1.11 amp from the Utility. then i have changed the output setting to SBU. now my utiltiy usage is zero (0). and my solar run the utility.

Now i have to change the setting in morning 7AM to SBU and then SUB at 5PM to get the maximum benefit.

I think this 1.11 amp in operating amp for VM III but it should be use from solar or battery.

Anyone can help me to tell me any software that can run on raspberry pi on which i can set the timer for that setting e.g. from 7AM to 5 PM setting should be SBU and then after 5PM setting should be SUB.

Right now i am using SOLPIPLOG on raspberry pi.

 

Thanks

I have 2 x Axpert Kings 5kW running in parallel with 3 x US3000B Lithium batteries and 15 x 400 Watt Canadian PV panels
also 2 x ICC raspberry Pi's

4 issues :
1 - Charging is set for Solar Only (OSO) but it seems the utility is still charging the batteries
(I had to set Utility Charging to 2A 'minimum setting' to minimise the issue until I can get this sorted)
Charging from utility only stops when I disconnect the utility
I do not know what other setting I can try - any suggestions ?

2 - Kings to have the software to communicate with the Pylontech batteries (with the PYL setting in the firmware)
I made the cable with the correct connections but cannot get the communications to work
Is there mayba a procedure to follow to get the comms working ?

3 - I am trying to use the ICC Raspberry Pi to change the inverters between the SBU and SUB settings as Salman is suggesting.
ICC do not work and Centurion Solar is not responding to my queries.
Is there maybe another solution ?

4 - The mixing of the utility and solar for the output do not seems to work very well.
It is either mostly Utility until the battery is charged and then switch to Solar
I only once or twice saw the 'mixing' work
I think Voltronic need to refine this unless there is another way to solve this ?

Regards
eLEK

Duncan Installation_.JPG

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2 hours ago, [email protected] said:

1 - Charging is set for Solar Only (OSO) but it seems the utility is still charging the batteries
(I had to set Utility Charging to 2A 'minimum setting' to minimise the issue until I can get this sorted)
Charging from utility only stops when I disconnect the utility
I do not know what other setting I can try - any suggestions ?

It's possible that ICC isn't "translating" OSO perfectly into Axpert King settings. I would check what actual settings you end up with by using the buttons and LC Display, then check with the manual.

Quote

2 - Kings to have the software to communicate with the Pylontech batteries (with the PYL setting in the firmware)
I made the cable with the correct connections but cannot get the communications to work
Is there mayba a procedure to follow to get the comms working ?

Again, maybe ICC isn't setting things up correctly. Check that setting 05 (Battery Type) is set to PYL using buttons and LCD.

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On 2020/01/02 at 2:57 PM, BvR said:

I have 2 x Axpert Kings 5kW running in parallel with 3 x US3000B Lithium batteries and 15 x 400 Watt Canadian PV panels
also 2 x ICC raspberry Pi's

4 issues :
1 - Charging is set for Solar Only (OSO) but it seems the utility is still charging the batteries
(I had to set Utility Charging to 2A 'minimum setting' to minimise the issue until I can get this sorted)
Charging from utility only stops when I disconnect the utility
I do not know what other setting I can try - any suggestions ?

2 - Kings to have the software to communicate with the Pylontech batteries (with the PYL setting in the firmware)
I made the cable with the correct connections but cannot get the communications to work
Is there mayba a procedure to follow to get the comms working ?

3 - I am trying to use the ICC Raspberry Pi to change the inverters between the SBU and SUB settings as Salman is suggesting.
ICC do not work and Centurion Solar is not responding to my queries.
Is there maybe another solution ?

4 - The mixing of the utility and solar for the output do not seems to work very well.
It is either mostly Utility until the battery is charged and then switch to Solar
I only once or twice saw the 'mixing' work
I think Voltronic need to refine this unless there is another way to solve this ?

Regards
eLEK

Duncan Installation_.JPG

Hi eLek,

i have suggested you to use the solpiplog software that is working excellent on raspberry pi. Link is mentioned below.

https://github.com/njfaria/SolPipLog

your requirements 100% full-filled by this software.
 

regards,

M Salman Malik

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