Growatt SPF 5000TL HVM BMS does not support parallel connection of Pylontech batteries

[csmit]

I recently bought a Growatt SPF 5000TL HVM inverter and successfully connected it to 3 x Pylontech US3000 batteries through RS485 communication. Screen shows Li for Lithium battery. Everything seems to work OK except that MPPT charging current does to go higher than 32A no matter what I do: increasing the size of the solar array, discharging the battery bank to a low SOC, changing Program 14 (charger source priority), updating the firmware, etc. I then changed to 4 x Pylontech US2000s and same problem, but in this case the MPPT charging current does not go higher than 25A. Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

Growatt advertises the maximum solar input for SPF 5000TL HVM as 4500W but with this limitation the maximum usable solar input is only 1600W (32x50) for US3000 and 1250W (25X50) for US2000. So, any PV more than 1600/1250W will essentially be wasted.

[jykenmynie]

I hope you find a solution, but if you don’t, my advice would be: It sounds like you’ve invested heavily in batteries and panels as well. It might be worthwhile considering that the cheapest next step is to scrap that inverter and get a good one.

I had a Growatt inverter for maybe a day or two before I initiated a return. Not the installer nor technician of the supplier could get it working properly with the battery that they also supplied me. The technician tried to convince me that all my troubles will go away if I just installed panels and not just use it as a backup. I don’t even want to imagine the trouble I was going to have, had I gone ahead and installed panels on the Growatt. If they cannot implement a proper charging and discharging of lithium batteries, why would panels fix that problem?

I paid extra, got a Victron, and have been happy since. No worries. Everything just works. Yes, it does cost much more than a Growatt. But it doesn’t cost as much as 3xUS3000B batteries. And also works better, as it is a proper hybrid inverter. I’m extremely glad I came across this forum when I did...

[csmit]

Thanks, good advice!

[Zimnismoboy34]

On 2020/09/17 at 9:11 PM, csmit said:

Thanks, good advice!

spoke to growatt and they mentioned the inverter needs an upgrade and the battery system . im keen to know the results and would like you to follow through with speaking to the suppliers for both upgrades to be done so you have a working system ? Please post the result .

[Mark R]

 

On 2020/09/17 at 4:53 AM, csmit said:

I recently bought a Growatt SPF 5000TL HVM inverter and successfully connected it to 3 x Pylontech US3000 batteries through RS485 communication. Screen shows Li for Lithium battery. Everything seems to work OK except that MPPT charging current does to go higher than 32A no matter what I do: increasing the size of the solar array, discharging the battery bank to a low SOC, changing Program 14 (charger source priority), updating the firmware, etc. I then changed to 4 x Pylontech US2000s and same problem, but in this case the MPPT charging current does not go higher than 25A. Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

Growatt advertises the maximum solar input for SPF 5000TL HVM as 4500W but with this limitation the maximum usable solar input is only 1600W (32x50) for US3000 and 1250W (25X50) for US2000. So, any PV more than 1600/1250W will essentially be wasted.

I have a long running attempt to understand the relationship between my Pylontech BMS and the inverter settings. I have 2 x Pylontech US3000, the HVM inverter and 3.2 kW of panels. 

In the morning, particularly here in CT in winter, batteries get to to 22% DOD and from that point on, regardless of available panel charge, the BMS/Inverter will draw only 1650W until my lowest possible SOC of 60% is reached. At this point, suddenly the panels are then able to contribute to domestic load (see attached graphic). No attempt at changing settings is possible, beyond no. 12 being 22% and 13 being 60%. 

This particular event makes me circumspect about getting a third battery, as the charging time will become even longer should the DOD be reached. 

I am always able to get to full charge somewhere in the day (except on the darkest rainy day in the Cape) so this 'panel hijack' is deeply frustrating.

Thoughts much appreciated.

[csmit]

I have updated both the Pylontech and inverter firmware - nothing helps. There is a fundamental problem with RS485 comms between Growatt and Pylontech.  Both companies accuses the other of being uncooperative.  Growatt's strategy is to keep BS-ing users, telling them to try this and then that - like updating firmware to buy time, well knowing that there is a fundamental technical flaw.  Until the user is so exhausted that they just give up.  Worst technical support of any Chinese company. 

[Mark R]

And what makes just a little bit worse is that Manie from ICC software is not able support Growatt which would be a backdoor route to changing the inverter-BMS behaviour. Irritation value high, not sure if it warrants a new inverter or one of the more expensive versions. 

What is your way forward?

Mark

[hoohloc]

2 hours ago, csmit said:

I have updated both the Pylontech and inverter firmware - nothing helps. There is a fundamental problem with RS485 comms between Growatt and Pylontech.  Both companies accuses the other of being uncooperative.  Growatt's strategy is to keep BS-ing users, telling them to try this and then that - like updating firmware to buy time, well knowing that there is a fundamental technical flaw.  Until the user is so exhausted that they just give up.  Worst technical support of any Chinese company. 

I was crossing my fingers that you get a solution that works. Planning to add more panels and few more batteries to my system in the near future but if this will be a waste, then i might have to look at getting two new inverters and selling my Growatt ones 

[Mark R]

On 2020/10/15 at 7:26 AM, csmit said:

I have updated both the Pylontech and inverter firmware - nothing helps. There is a fundamental problem with RS485 comms between Growatt and Pylontech.  Both companies accuses the other of being uncooperative.  Growatt's strategy is to keep BS-ing users, telling them to try this and then that - like updating firmware to buy time, well knowing that there is a fundamental technical flaw.  Until the user is so exhausted that they just give up.  Worst technical support of any Chinese company. 

Have manage to update the Inverter firmware from Mahone, and can now drop the SOC to allow the panels to be 'released' by the BMS at a lower SOC. However still max 32A and what's worse is that SOC is read as 100% all the time. Inevitably total shutdown yesterday when batteries were truly emptied as they were never charged. 

Mahone in China says I need to update the BMS as well. Could you advise on how to do this? Do I update via the inverter or by plugging in directly to the battery Master?

Thanks

[DavidRx]

Wow, so there appears to be a big problem with Growatt HPM. I have 2 in parallel 5000TL HPM-WPV.

12x340w panels each, 8x3600kwh Dyness batteries. ( I’ve also been playing around with panel configuration for a totally off-grid installation at our rural guesthouse.)

In any case, everything was working great ( a few hiccups) until suddenly each inverter will not put out more than 17A charge current. This is a major problem since on overcast days I’m forced to reconnect to Eskom which is my goal to divorce due to their outrageous connection fees for rural installations.

I'm working with Growatt and Dyness but no resolutions yet.

I'm getting impatient and my initial favorable impression of Growatt and their inverter features is beginning to fade.

A few more details. While I was bench testing with different PV panel configurations the system worked fine. Charging current was fine (~>30A) and I was able to charge my battery bank in a few hours (full by noon).The problem arose after I expanded my batteries from 3x3600 to 8x3600 coupled with a weekend of overcast. My system went into SoC @20% shutdown and after that when the sun returned my max charging current would not go over 17A. To add insult to injury, at 82% SOC charge current drops to 14A and at 92% SoC it drops to 7A!! At this rate it takes three days to recharge my batteries. I may have to return my inverters and start over looking for a replacement.

if anyone knows more about this problem please speak up.

Edited October 17, 2020 by DavidRx

[Zimnismoboy34]

Sorry Gents i have been hectic will revert when i can digest all of what is written here but long story short . Soc meaning Lithium battery mode is a mess . Go back to using USE setting and maintain a lowish float and a good bulk like 52v . 
This will allow balancing etc . But other then that i have had no joy from Growatt . I was developing the rs485 protocol for my own batteries and countless hours and effort to no avail their protocol sucks badly . Needless to say i will not touch another 5000TL HVM !

[chaz]

Hello All 

 

Been reading your posts with interest . I   believe the reason you are seeing low charge rates is due to the Inverter reading the bms default settings for charge rate amps as set by pylon .  I have the original pylon extra  2000  batteries  , and by using the pylon console program "batteryview " its clear to see these defaults , they can be user modified ( at your risk)  . take a look at the pdf attached . Hope this helps

Battery Data Acquirement SOP.pdf BatteryView_pylon.zip

[Mark R]

Beware....

<[email protected]>	Mon, 19 Oct, 08:02
to me, 骆峰Martin

 

Hi Mark，

as we tried at noon，we have upgraded inverter BMS software to the newest version already，

normally we suggest to install US2000 to work with inverter，US3000 isn't including in our supporting list，US3000 hasn't adjusted well enough yet，especially when two or more pieces US3000 work together，please kindly note，

 

----------------------------------------------

Any question, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely,

Mahone Wang | Africa Service

W：+86 18668813227

W : www.ginverter.com

Growatt New Energy Technology Co.,Ltd

No.28 Guangming Road, Longteng Community, Shiyan, Bao'an District, Shenzhen, P.R.China.

[Bafaro69]

Hello everyone, I also have the same problems with my three SPF5000 growatt in parallel and three groups of pylontech batteries connected using the pylontech LV-HUB and the rs485 / can growatt HUB to gather the communication from the inverters to the LV  -HUB.  my problem is that with my three groups of 18 pylontech batteries, the inverter only displays 8a.  I am forced to enter them from ur USER to be able to charge the batteries.  but with the parameters USERle the base displayed permanently 100%.  If anyone has been able to find a solution I ask for enough help.  I am in contact with my supplier in china and growatt but no solution on the horizon.  thank you

[Bafaro69]

On 17/09/2020 at 02:53, csmit said:

J'ai récemment acheté un onduleur Growatt SPF 5000TL HVM et je l'ai connecté avec succès à 3 batteries Pylontech US3000 via une communication RS485. L'écran affiche Li pour batterie au lithium. Tout semble fonctionner correctement sauf que le courant de charge MPPT dépasse 32A quoi que je fasse: augmenter la taille du panneau solaire, décharger le banc de batteries à un SOC bas, changer le programme 14 (priorité de la source du chargeur), mettre à jour le firmware, etc. Je suis alors passé à 4 x Pylontech US2000 et même problème, mais dans ce cas, le courant de charge MPPT ne dépasse pas 25A. Quelqu'un d'autre rencontre le même problème?

Growatt annonce que l'entrée solaire maximale pour SPF 5000TL HVM est de 4500W, mais avec cette limitation, l'entrée solaire maximale utilisable n'est que de 1600W (32x50) pour US3000 et 1250W (25X50) pour US2000. Ainsi, tout PV supérieur à 1600 / 1250W sera essentiellement gaspillé.

Hello dear, I also have similar problems with my three SPF5000 growatt in parallel and three groups of connected pylontech batteries, using the pylontech LV-HUB and the growatt rs485 / CAN HUB, to gather the communication from the inverters to the  LV -HUB.  my problem is that with my three groups of 18 pylontech batteries, the inverter only displays 8A while I have a power of 14kw of solar panels.  I have to put on USER to be able to charge the batteries.  but with the USER parameters the SOC permanently displays 100%.  I ask for help too.  I am in contact with my supplier in china and growatt but no solution on the horizon.  not sure if i need to update firmware as well, inverters show aversion 500.06 / 002/00 / null.  thank you

[Gandalf]

Hi guys. Please forgive my ignorance, but is communication between inverter and battery that important? 
I don’t have any connections between inverter and battery (besides the thick power cables) and don’t seem to have any problems at all. My installer set up all the charging details into the inverter/MPPT and left it like that. The batteries will not charge higher that what he programmed it to charge. Also he set the inverter to switch off if the batteries get to 48v or 50v (I can’t remember) The internal bms takes care of everything else. 
Am I missing something? 
Could someone please educate me?
 

I mean no disrespect, but I seriously don’t see the need of communication, lead acid batteries never needed it. 

[Bafaro69]

hi my dear,

all questions are important.  for leaded batteries, no communication needs, moreover they do not.  the inverters do all the work.  on the other hand lithium batteries have a communication system to ensure their performance and durability.

Best regards 

[HeinDuPlessis]

16 hours ago, Gandalf said:

Hi guys. Please forgive my ignorance, but is communication between inverter and battery that important? 
I don’t have any connections between inverter and battery (besides the thick power cables) and don’t seem to have any problems at all. My installer set up all the charging details into the inverter/MPPT and left it like that. The batteries will not charge higher that what he programmed it to charge. Also he set the inverter to switch off if the batteries get to 48v or 50v (I can’t remember) The internal bms takes care of everything else. 
Am I missing something? 
Could someone please educate me?
 

I mean no disrespect, but I seriously don’t see the need of communication, lead acid batteries never needed it. 

I'm in agreement, I've got two Growatt 5000's and they are not communicating with the BMS. Initially I've put a lot of effort in trying to get this right, but really, I just need to see their voltage, everything else is just info overload imo. Eventually Growatt will get their act together and become more compatible, but in the mean time, I don't see a need.

I knew very well some people have huge problems with the Growatts but I've been running one for about 10 months with no major problems. I've recently purchased another, and there are predictably hickups installing. But honestly, with the Victrons an order of magnitude higher cost, I'm prepared to put in some hours to make the system work, which will then enable me to run a bigger system than I would have otherwise. This might be foolhardy in the end, but I'm going to give it my all.

[Solarphile]

2 hours ago, HeinDuPlessis said:

I just need to see their voltage, everything else is just info overload imo

I have to agree. I have been using lithium batteries for around two years now and have never had any communication. My inverter has a low voltage cut off at 48V and my charge controllers will not charge past 56V. What will communication accomplish that isn’t happening now? 

[hoohloc]

On 2020/09/17 at 4:53 AM, csmit said:

I recently bought a Growatt SPF 5000TL HVM inverter and successfully connected it to 3 x Pylontech US3000 batteries through RS485 communication. Screen shows Li for Lithium battery. Everything seems to work OK except that MPPT charging current does to go higher than 32A no matter what I do: increasing the size of the solar array, discharging the battery bank to a low SOC, changing Program 14 (charger source priority), updating the firmware, etc. I then changed to 4 x Pylontech US2000s and same problem, but in this case the MPPT charging current does not go higher than 25A. Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

Growatt advertises the maximum solar input for SPF 5000TL HVM as 4500W but with this limitation the maximum usable solar input is only 1600W (32x50) for US3000 and 1250W (25X50) for US2000. So, any PV more than 1600/1250W will essentially be wasted.

Back to this with more information. I can confirm that SPF 5000TL HMV used with 4 x Pylontech  US2000 works perfectly well using BMS. Now I manage to get up to 80A of charging current and that my PV, which is (8 x 405W plus 6 x 400w) is definitely not a waste and will be adding more. I used to have a problem when I had two inverters connected in parallel but now since one blew up. Everything seems to be working perfectly well with one inverter. the only problem is that I'm limited on how many Appliances I can run at the same time with my geyser. Yes, My geyser and A/C, stove, washing machine, dish washer are all running from one inverter now. I just need to find out why, when two inverters were running parallel,I couldn't get the same current. 

[hoohloc]

On 2020/12/19 at 1:05 AM, Bafaro69 said:

Hello dear, I also have similar problems with my three SPF5000 growatt in parallel and three groups of connected pylontech batteries, using the pylontech LV-HUB and the growatt rs485 / CAN HUB, to gather the communication from the inverters to the  LV -HUB.  my problem is that with my three groups of 18 pylontech batteries, the inverter only displays 8A while I have a power of 14kw of solar panels.  I have to put on USER to be able to charge the batteries.  but with the USER parameters the SOC permanently displays 100%.  I ask for help too.  I am in contact with my supplier in china and growatt but no solution on the horizon.  not sure if i need to update firmware as well, inverters show aversion 500.06 / 002/00 / null.  thank you

Hi, update your firmware, my inverters have 500.07/002.03/null. Not sure if this is the latest firmware but it seems to be working. There must be something I was missing when running two in parallel. But since one blew, I got a chance to see how one performs individually. I suspect the issue is the splitting of BMS communication between the inverters. I just use a normal network spliter, the cheap one bought from RS components. With all four batteries bms comms connected to one inverter, I can now get up to 80A charging and that is limited by my PV capacity. Increasing my PV should increase that current 

[Bafaro69]

Hello,

I look forward to you then.  As for me, I tried with only one inverter running, the load current was at 25a but once the other two inverters were on, this current is shared and becomes 8a and per inverter.  everything suggests that inverters only communicate with a single battery.  i did the last software update to 500.09 / 02.03.null but it's still the same.  I have doubts if the network crossover cables I am using are suitable.  

happy new year 2021.

[hoohloc]

21 minutes ago, Bafaro69 said:

Hello,

I look forward to you then.  As for me, I tried with only one inverter running, the load current was at 25a but once the other two inverters were on, this current is shared and becomes 8a and per inverter.  everything suggests that inverters only communicate with a single battery.  i did the last software update to 500.09 / 02.03.null but it's still the same.  I have doubts if the network crossover cables I am using are suitable.  

happy new year 2021.

I honestly believe that our issue lies with the spliter or maybe we are not supposed to parallel the battery wiring on the inverter. will test when I get my inverter back. Maybe each inverter needs to have its own batteries like it has own PV. The 80A charging current i got when it was partly cloudy and still believe I can get more when its sunny. i just need to keep testing 

 

[Bafaro69]

It seems perfect with a single inverter anyway for you.  we keep looking.  I have to change the rj45 on the LV-HUB side, it is not identical to that of the battery and the inverter.

[Len225]

On 2020/10/15 at 7:26 AM, csmit said:

I have updated both the Pylontech and inverter firmware - nothing helps. There is a fundamental problem with RS485 comms between Growatt and Pylontech.  Both companies accuses the other of being uncooperative.  Growatt's strategy is to keep BS-ing users, telling them to try this and then that - like updating firmware to buy time, well knowing that there is a fundamental technical flaw.  Until the user is so exhausted that they just give up.  Worst technical support of any Chinese company. 

Came across these older posts and just adding my 10 cents since I have the same issue with my Growatt 5000HVM-P connected to 4x Dyness B4850 batteries.. no stable communication on Li setting possible and been going back and forth between Growatt and Dyness for a year without being resolved (at least Dyness goes to real trouble to try and assist). Spoke to a new dealer who assured me the issue is with the Growatt and not the batteries - suggested LuxPower inverter as the cheapest replacement that actually works so will look at that now - or leave the Growatt on USER setting with manual parameters set which seems to work fine albeit defeating the object