Pylontech vs Hubble

[hoohloc]

13 minutes ago, Leshen said:

Didn’t you say that you will be adding more to make a bank of 8? Or don’t you own them?

No need to make it personal, I have no doubt that there is a market out there for Hubble and they will grow. Pylontech is here to stay, not going anywhere any time soon. Buyers are influenced by many factors when making a purchase and as seen from this post, I'm not the only one who thinks Pylons are the best and good value for money. Even with the 25mm2 cable packs  

Edited February 14, 2021 by hoohloc

[Leshen]

7 minutes ago, hoohloc said:

No need to make it personal, I have no doubt that there is a market out there for Hubble and they will grow. Pylontech is here to stay, not going anywhere any time soon. Buyers are influenced by many factors when making a purchase and as seen from this post, I'm not the only one who thinks Pylons are the best and good value for money. Even with the 25mm2 cable packs  

Hi Hoohloc.

Im not making anything personal. You think that Pylontechs are the best and great value for money even though its more expensive. That’s your opinion and you are entitled to have it. My opinion differs from yours and I will leave it at that. 

[Speedster]

39 minutes ago, Leshen said:

Hi Hoohloc.

Im not making anything personal. You think that Pylontechs are the best and great value for money even though its more expensive. That’s your opinion and you are entitled to have it. My opinion differs from yours and I will leave it at that. 

Apologies if I missed it earlier on in the thread, do we have a graph showing cycle life based on dod for the Hubbles?

[Speedster]

I found a hubble spec sheet. It says 3000 cycles. That's a bit low isn't it? I think most other batteries are in the region of 6000?

[Leshen]

19 minutes ago, Speedster said:

I found a hubble spec sheet. It says 3000 cycles. That's a bit low isn't it? I think most other batteries are in the region of 6000?

It’s 3000 cycles at 100% DOD at 1C. Most other batteries are 6000 cycles at 80% DOD at 0.5C. 

[Achmat]

For me the C rating only becomes an issue with smaller pylontech battery banks of 1 to 3 batteries. 

I have 3 pylontechs so it can become an issue when i need to use more than 111A from the batteries. This has only occurred once in the 6 months my system had been running during a load shedding slot very early in the morning and when my Geyserwise activated the 4kw geyser element and my bedroom 12000btu aircon was running. 

When the grid is available or there's sufficient solar, this has not been a problem. Three pylontechs is not enough to see me through 24 hours and my plan has always been to have 6 pylontechs in my battery bank so the 0.5C rating really becomes a non issue. Planning on adding 3 more this month still. 

Constantly discharging at higher C rates also reduces the number of cycles that you can get out of any battery and ideally i would want my batteries to discharge on average at 0.25C and peaking at 0.5C. This will also help with not allowing the batteries to heat up which is also good for battery life. 

[Speedster]

I'd rather have 6000 cycles at 0.5C than 3000 cycles at 1C. Instantaneous power isn't such a big consideration to my mind. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Speedster

[Leshen]

8 minutes ago, Speedster said:

I'd rather have 6000 cycles at 0.5C than 3000 cycles at 1C. Instantaneous power isn't such a big consideration to my mind. 

Well if a battery gives you 3000 cycles at 1C at 100% DOD, the only logical conclusion is that the same battery will give way more cycles at 0.5C at 80% DOD but at least it has the ability to charge and discharge at 1C which the other brand cannot do. Pylontech’s UP5000 which is their 4.8kwh model has 4500cycles at 95% DOD. Not 6000. 

Hubble’s X-100 has 12400 cycles at 50% DOD at 0.5C and 11000 cycles at 50% DOD at 1C. So I’ll have more than double, all I need to do is to add more batteries to the bank which is exactly what the Pylontech guys do anyway. hubble_lithium_x-100_a4_pamphlet.pdf

 

[Speedster]

It's clear you're sold on the Hubble, which is great. You're making some strong assumptions though, I hope for your part they all hold true.

[Leshen]

14 minutes ago, Speedster said:

It's clear you're sold on the Hubble, which is great. You're making some strong assumptions though, I hope for your part they all hold true.

Not sure what the assumptions are. Maybe have a look at the data sheet. 

[Speedster]

Just now, Leshen said:

Not sure what the assumptions are. Maybe have a look at the data sheet. 

I haven't been able to find a datasheet for the Hubble's showing cycle count for differing DoD. Could you perhaps share yours with me?

[Leshen]

1 minute ago, Speedster said:

I haven't been able to find a datasheet for the Hubble's showing cycle count for differing DoD. Could you perhaps share yours with me?

 

hubble_lithium_x-100_a4_pamphlet.pdf

[Speedster]

1 minute ago, Leshen said:

 

hubble_lithium_x-100_a4_pamphlet.pdf 1.35 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks. What happens with expected cycles at 80% and 90% DoD?

[Achmat]

Like I said, C rating for bigger battery banks becomes irrelevant. 

There's no way my 8kw inverter will discharge a bank of 21kwh lithium batteries at even 0.5C, whether it's a Hubble or pylontech battery bank. 

[Boerseun]

3 minutes ago, Achmat said:

Like I said, C rating for bigger battery banks becomes irrelevant. 

There's no way my 8kw inverter will discharge a bank of 21kwh lithium batteries at even 0.5C, whether it's a Hubble or pylontech battery bank. 

It is relevant the 1C battery will last longer.. 2 x 5.5 KW Hubble batteries can produce 200 amp how many Pylons do you need besides lets refer back to the initial photos....corosion oxidation in a battery barely 2 years old that looks like it was built in a china back street ...no thanks .... you can keep it... and no Pylontech is not as user friendly as most installers want us to believe.. besides the after sales service and support sucks..

[recre8]

It is a pity that the Hubble's can't natively do CAN communication. That was the deciding factor why I went for Pylontech's Force L1 in the end. The inverter compatibility document shows that for the X100 to be used with Deye/Sunsynk the Hubble needs another converter thing for which I couldn't find a price anywhere. 

[Leshen]

8 hours ago, Achmat said:

Like I said, C rating for bigger battery banks becomes irrelevant. 

There's no way my 8kw inverter will discharge a bank of 21kwh lithium batteries at even 0.5C, whether it's a Hubble or pylontech battery bank. 

That’s one example. What about an 8kw Sunsynk with 2 x 4.8kwh Pylontechs. You will only get 4.8kw which is very easy to exceed. So guess what happens during a grid outage at night, the inverter will go into fault mode and shut down. See the attached picture of an 8kw Inge inverter which keeps going into fault mode with 2 x 4.8kwh 0.5C batteries. The only way to get around that is to have more batteries, that’s not the solution, the solution is for other popular manufacturers to produce 1C batteries. What do you think will happen with pricing if Pylontech produce an actual 1C battery? That’s where the Hubble’s are better. 

[Leshen]

8 hours ago, Boerseun said:

It is relevant the 1C battery will last longer.. 2 x 5.5 KW Hubble batteries can produce 200 amp how many Pylons do you need besides lets refer back to the initial photos....corosion oxidation in a battery barely 2 years old that looks like it was built in a china back street ...no thanks .... you can keep it... and no Pylontech is not as user friendly as most installers want us to believe.. besides the after sales service and support sucks..

You will need 4 x UP5000, 6 x US3000 and 8 x US2000 for the same instantanoeus power output of 2 x 5.5 kWh Hubble’s or BSLB. The average homeowner in South Africa cannot afford a 21kwh battery bank to solve a simple manufacturing issue. 

[Boerseun]

7 hours ago, recre8 said:

It is a pity that the Hubble's can't natively do CAN communication. That was the deciding factor why I went for Pylontech's Force L1 in the end. The inverter compatibility document shows that for the X100 to be used with Deye/Sunsynk the Hubble needs another converter thing for which I couldn't find a price anywhere. 

look at the spec sheet on the 5.5 KW AM2  Full CAN Comms and it works with the Riot Cloudlink  the 4.8 x100 model is more for your Axpert Clone Range 

[Achmat]

6 minutes ago, Leshen said:

That’s one example. What about an 8kw Sunsynk with 2 x 4.8kwh Pylontechs. You will only get 4.8kw which is very easy to exceed. So guess what happens during a grid outage at night, the inverter will go into fault mode and shut down. See the attached picture of an 8kw Inge inverter which keeps going into fault mode with 2 x 4.8kwh 0.5C batteries. The only way to get around that is to have more batteries, that’s not the solution, the solution is for other popular manufacturers to produce 1C batteries. What do you think will happen with pricing if Pylontech produce an actual 1C battery? That’s where the Hubble’s are better. 

My plan it to eventually be completely off grid. For that I will need 21kwh of batteries at a minimum. At that size battery bank the C rating becomes a non issue. 

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Small battery banks the C rating should be a consideration especially if your inverter output is higher than the capacity of your battery bank. I only have 3 pylontechs currently on my 8kw sunsynk so I know the limitation of the 0.5C rating. Currently they only get me to 3am. Doubling the capacity should see me through the night making the C rating limitation irrelevant at that size battery bank. 

[Leshen]

1 minute ago, Boerseun said:

look at the spec sheet on the 5.5 KW AM2  Full CAN Comms and it works with the Riot Cloudlink  the 4.8 x100 model is more for your Axpert Clone Range 

Oh yes. I forgot about the Riot Cloudlink. It’s also wall mountable so I don’t have to spend more for a cabinet.

[Dani]

9 minutes ago, Boerseun said:

look at the spec sheet on the 5.5 KW AM2  Full CAN Comms and it works with the Riot Cloudlink  the 4.8 x100 model is more for your Axpert Clone Range

@Boerseuncan you please clarify. 

 

[Boerseun]

1 minute ago, Dani said:

@Boerseuncan you please clarify. 

 

See Attached Spec sheet also look at the following link too Riot Cloud Link with Live systems attached https://portal.riotsystems.cloud/dashboard/00bdc590-5810-11eb-adcd-0b75a54149c7?publicId=cc5cf540-5180-11eb-b88a-4bcbe9b8c65e 

Hubble Lithium AM-2 A4 Pamphlet (2).pdf riot_cloudlink__a4_pamphlet_electronic_fa (1).pdf

[PaulinNorthcliff]

39 minutes ago, Achmat said:

My plan it to eventually be completely off grid. For that I will need 21kwh of batteries at a minimum. At that size battery bank the C rating becomes a non issue. 

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Small battery banks the C rating should be a consideration especially if your inverter output is higher than the capacity of your battery bank. I only have 3 pylontechs currently on my 8kw sunsynk so I know the limitation of the 0.5C rating. Currently they only get me to 3am. Doubling the capacity should see me through the night making the C rating limitation irrelevant at that size battery bank. 

 

[Leshen]

1 minute ago, calypso said:

If I were Hubble I would would pay Leshen to stop posting. 

Literally destroying the reputation of a up and coming brand talking smack. Unfortunately for now, the damage is already done. 

This is the jargon that is spoken when people know nothing.