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Pylontech vs Hubble


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2 minutes ago, recre8 said:

Note that the table in the welding cable datasheet is an absolute maximum rating... the footnote under the table says that the conductors reach 85 Celsius after 5 minutes at the rated current. So you should use that table more as a fuse/breaker rating than the sustained current for the cable.

out of interest, in a normal house hold set up, which appliances and how many of them will you have to switch on to reach 100A draw of the batteries? because in most cases you will use batteries for your lights, wifi router, Tv, mobile phone charging etc. I can have a stack of 8 x Pylons and still use a 21mm2 cable without any worry of over heating the cable. Even with all my lights on I will never reach 90A, let alone 160A 

Is my system safe? Yes it is safe because I will never ever get to draw over 100A from my battery bank

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25 minutes ago, Kill_switch said:

Simple yes, however we now have 3 chart/specs each with a different preferred max... maybe that's why there is so much confusion?

Capture.thumb.JPG.82516d35e4a4dcefb33382cbbe63ed3d.JPG

Your spec gives 100A at 2.3 m (3% loss)

Website linked above gives 131A for 1% over the same distance

And the table linked gives 180A

and we wonder why each seems to hold their own view..

Previous post by @ThatGuy explains it the best. I suggested doubling up the [email protected] on 4-bank Pylontech, and it would surely make an installation safer. And I would definitely size the fuse just below the calculated capacity of the conductor @PaulinNorthcliff.

14 minutes ago, hoohloc said:

out of interest, in a normal house hold set up, which appliances and how many of them will you have to switch on to reach 100A draw of the batteries? because in most cases you will use batteries for your lights, wifi router, Tv, mobile phone charging etc. I can have a stack of 8 x Pylons and still use a 21mm2 cable without any worry of over heating the cable. Even with all my lights on I will never reach 90A, let alone 160A 

Is my system safe? Yes it is safe because I will never ever get to draw over 100A from my battery bank

What size is your Fuse? 100A draw on the battery is about 4.8kW - geyser, kettle and a hot plate should easily exceed that. Don't forget you use the same cables to Charge the battery. I just looked at my system and 4541W is charging the battery at 84.10A. if you are putting up 8kW array, you will go over 100A for sure.

 

Also, you should not only worry about the regular condition, but also about a fault condition. In those conditions you may have extremely high current, and fuse should blow before you damage the kit or burn the cables.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kill_switch said:

What is clear is that if you have 25mm^2 your breaker should be less than the rated current, else the wire will fail before the breaker.. @PaulinNorthcliff might make sense to get a lower rated fuse if this is valid.

So, 160A fuse for 25mm^2 and 250A fuse for 50mm^2?

 

Yeah, turns out I 'misremembered'. The Mersen fuses are 125A.

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20 hours ago, Brani said:

Apologies for hijacking the discussion.

Hubble is still to answer the questions asked.

For cable sizing,there are many calculators and all of them will confirm that [email protected] is not enough for 3-4 Pylontec batteries.

Here is a simple chart

 

image.thumb.png.c8f4658034162e6d1e2ae337bb2db05a.png

Agreed. @HubbleLithium dodging those questions doesn't exactly do much to inspire confidence in their brand. 

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16 minutes ago, Speedster said:

Agreed. @HubbleLithium dodging those questions doesn't exactly do much to inspire confidence in their brand. 

No, this thread has descended into a mud-slinging contest. There is really no way for them to improve it by commenting again - I certainly would not if I were them.

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31 minutes ago, P1000 said:

No, this thread has descended into a mud-slinging contest. There is really no way for them to improve it by commenting again - I certainly would not if I were them.

They have a great opportunity to set the record straight. Their selectively avoiding certain questions creates the impression that they're trying to hide those answers, and leads us (maybe just me?) to assume the worst. They don't need to comment on anything about other brands, simply answer the outstanding questions related to their product. 

I am actively looking to buy a battery and was strongly considering their product, until I read their half-baked answer. If they aren't willing to answer those questions, there is no way I'm buying their product. 

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12 minutes ago, Speedster said:

They have a great opportunity to set the record straight. Their selectively avoiding certain questions creates the impression that they're trying to hide those answers, and leads us (maybe just me?) to assume the worst. They don't need to comment on anything about other brands, simply answer the outstanding questions related to their product. 

I am actively looking to buy a battery and was strongly considering their product, until I read their half-baked answer. If they aren't willing to answer those questions, there is no way I'm buying their product. 

I am sorry that we turned half a thread to Victron/Sunsynk competition.

But that aside, all we heard about is shortcomings of the other brand. 

I agree that @HubbleLithium has an opportunity to answer questions related to their product. 

 

 

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Yeah, so the mud-slinging aside... The almost inevitable reverse justification for purchases always occurs... Land-Rover vs Landcruiser, Glock vs CZ, etc, etc, ad nauseum. We're all adults dealing with an adult topic. Maybe we all just need to learn how to deal with criticism without demanding a safe space. Robust debate is always good.

I'm genuinely quite interested in Hubble (despite their approach to this thread - which was to trash Pylon), for the same reason that Deye/Sunsynk leapfrogged all the other (more established) brands. That's the benefit of competition.

This thread has been illuminating for me, and not just because I learned that I need to upgrade my battery cables ;-{)}

Edited by PaulinNorthcliff
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2 minutes ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

(despite their approach to this thread - which was to trash Pylon)

Strange that you Blame Hubble for trashing Pylontech.. I have read all the threads and there is not one post by Hubble saying anything about Pylontech... Leshen which is a member of the forum here compared the batteries interesting how you blame a Brand for opinions of individuals.. so much emotional responses with so few facts from a lot of people here that says a lot and don't actually know what they are talking about... besides the thread went completely off topic. Besides a battery manufacturer does not specify recommended cable sizes the Inverter Manual normally specifies and recommends the right battery cable size based on the potential current draw and charging current capabilities of the inverter or MPPT connected to the Battery... You can have 50KW of battery but if your inverter is rated at 1KW then the recommended cable size would be dictated by how much the inverter system can draw from the battery at any time.. 

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15 minutes ago, Boerseun said:

Strange that you Blame Hubble for trashing Pylontech.. I have read all the threads and there is not one post by Hubble saying anything about Pylontech... Leshen which is a member of the forum here compared the batteries interesting how you blame a Brand for opinions of individuals.. so much emotional responses with so few facts from a lot of people here that says a lot and don't actually know what they are talking about... besides the thread went completely off topic. Besides a battery manufacturer does not specify recommended cable sizes the Inverter Manual normally specifies and recommends the right battery cable size based on the potential current draw and charging current capabilities of the inverter or MPPT connected to the Battery... You can have 50KW of battery but if your inverter is rated at 1KW then the recommended cable size would be dictated by how much the inverter system can draw from the battery at any time.. 

Well said Boerseun. 

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Hi Community,

Seems the forum is decending into just degrading brands and negative commenting which is very unfortunate, as the powerforum is a great wealth of knowledge for power backup and solar enthusiasts. 
We're not dodging questions, we dont live on this forum, and we are not affiliated to powerforum. Seems if we dont answer questions immediately then there are negative views. We only check this forum once a week if that. If you have questions please contact us through our official channels or on our website contact form.

For support and technical questions please contact us direct through our official channels, we will be more than happy to assist our clients.

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1 hour ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

Yeah, so the mud-slinging aside... The almost inevitable reverse justification for purchases always occurs... Land-Rover vs Landcruiser, Glock vs CZ, etc, etc, ad nauseum. We're all adults dealing with an adult topic. Maybe we all just need to learn how to deal with criticism without demanding a safe space. Robust debate is always good.

I'm genuinely quite interested in Hubble (despite their approach to this thread - which was to trash Pylon), for the same reason that Deye/Sunsynk leapfrogged all the other (more established) brands. That's the benefit of competition.

This thread has been illuminating for me, and not just because I learned that I need to upgrade my battery cables ;-{)}

Re cable size, I'm still confused! Is the std pylontech cable good for 4 pylontech batteries? 

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Looks stunning.

@PaulinNorthcliff here is the part about battery cables from Sunsynk installer manual. 

3.3. Battery Connection
 Battery connection of the 3.6kW/5.5kW model
 Battery connection of the 8kW model
For safe operation and compliance, an individual DC overcurrent protector or disconnection device is required for the connection of the battery and the inverter. It is recommended to utilize a suitable fuse and DC isolator (see next page). In some applications, switching devices may not be required but overcurrent protectors are still required.
A minimum battery cable size of 35mm diameter and 50mm diameter is recommended for the 5.5 kW and 8.8kW inverter, respectively.
  Website: www.sunsynk.com E-mail: [email protected] 

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13 hours ago, Brani said:

Looks stunning.

@PaulinNorthcliff here is the part about battery cables from Sunsynk installer manual. 

3.3. Battery Connection
 Battery connection of the 3.6kW/5.5kW model
 Battery connection of the 8kW model
For safe operation and compliance, an individual DC overcurrent protector or disconnection device is required for the connection of the battery and the inverter. It is recommended to utilize a suitable fuse and DC isolator (see next page). In some applications, switching devices may not be required but overcurrent protectors are still required.
A minimum battery cable size of 35mm diameter and 50mm diameter is recommended for the 5.5 kW and 8.8kW inverter, respectively.
  Website: www.sunsynk.com E-mail: [email protected] 

Thank you.

What I HAVE done is connect either each set of two Pylons to the Deye 8kW with their own 25mm^2 cable set, or connected the two banks of 4 Pylons (as per my house pictured supra) to the Mersen disconnect/fuse, and then run double 25mm^2 cable sets to the inverter.

If the smoke escapes I shall try something else.

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