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If I were Hubble I would would pay Leshen to stop posting.  Literally destroying the reputation of a up and coming brand talking smack. Unfortunately for now, the damage is already done. 

Hi Community, Seems the forum is decending into just degrading brands and negative commenting which is very unfortunate, as the powerforum is a great wealth of knowledge for power backup and sola

Good day guys. Just a quick post with some pictures on what the popular Pylontech batteries look like on the inside vs the latest Hubble battery. Big difference on the quality. Some corrosion alr

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55 minutes ago, FixAMess said:

Yes, that's why the AU testing is a good indication of what can be expected from a battery.  The Pylontechs were measured and came out at a much lower cycle than advertised, as did most of the batteries tested.

The Hubble and Bull people should have their batteries tested, simple, then we can make an informed decision as to what a "good deal" is....

Advertising is cheap talk until the batteries are tested and their performance confirmed. In fact a regulator should force this ........

I must have read a different report. The one I saw the Pylons were outperforming the other brands. 

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35 minutes ago, recre8 said:

image.thumb.png.2aa1ae8eafaf502744425119e6b38e5d.pngI would like if they could provide a graph rather with cycles and DOD. Neither 100% DOD, nor 50% DOD are real-world use-cases and you can't really estimate anything if you only have those two values. Also, is there a standard whereby "cycles" are measured? e.g. 80% capacity left after stated number of cycles. Or does everyone just use their own definition?

Pylontech were the first to change the industry standard and call End of life at 60%.
I see freedomwon doing the same now too ..... in short amazing .

IEC rated has and is till to my knowledge 80% retaining capacity not 60% . 
Its easy to say my battery will last 10 000 cycles to 20% EOL ? REALLY!

Come on guys some logic here .
Yes the pylontech are rated to 6500 cycles at 60% which if maths does me justice proves a cycle life of 4000 cycles roughly at 80% and if we change the low voltage cut off and high voltage cut off to 2.5v and 3.65v (lifepo4) then we get less to about 2500 to 3500 cycles does the vision start becoming a little clearer ?
All good quality batteries come with a cycle life estimated .
But all batteries @25 deg C usage for their whole lives at low C discharge and charge rates will last a super long time .
Temp kills batteries have said it time and time again .

Low c rates = low internal temps .

used indoors 25deg C = long cycle life 

Narrow voltage SOC window = Long cycle life 

There is more to this equation i can go into more detail .
But can i ask does hubble both 100x and AM series only have rs485 ?

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On 2021/02/12 at 10:42 AM, HubbleLithium said:

Hi P1000,

 

First of all interesting post. We have been following it and not commenting as to stay neutral.

Regarding spares.
- BMS: Our BMS units are manufactured in the East and they are double coated to prevent corrosion. The BMS have been approved for Telecomms and datacentres and has CE approval etc. We have 2 service centres, JHB and CT. We order a 5% spare holding over the required minimum for BMS units per container. We currently have local spares of BMS units in JHB & CT. To date we have not had a BMS fail. We have had LCD display issues on 2 batteries but we swapped out the screen. We currently have over 60 spare full BMS boards available with more spares arriving monthly.

The BMS we use can deliver 150Amps continuous output and input. Our AM-2 batteries are set to deliver 120Amp output per battery as the cells are 120AH cells. The BMS is over specced for what we use, but we prefer this as the components run cooler, this is why we have not had a BMS failure in any unit so far. The problem with overspeccing the BMS is all the component prices increase and cables are bigger, so cost increase is a factor.
 

- Cells: We have spare cells that we can swap out with our units, but you also have to condition the cells and give them a top up charge every 6-8 months so they do not undervoltage and get damaged. To date we have not replaced any cells. If there is a issue we swap the full battery pack out if its new or there is issues within a week after install etc.

We also do not want to overcapatalise on older cells as the technology is moving very fast and cells get more energy dense every year. 

Hope that helps. 

 

 

 

 

@HubbleLithium

Some interesting facts in this already, but I hope you can share some more info since there seems to be quite a debate raging on here. It might be a good chance to hear from you, a manufacturer, so we can make an informed decision. You know, before we all rush out and just buy the colour battery that matches our eyes :P 

- I was under the impression that lithium cells can deliver a lot more than 1C, so if they're 120AH cells then wouldn't that make a 150A BMS... underspec'd?

- It doesn't sound like you make the BMS board yourselves, is this a 3rd party unit that you've integrated?

- You've had some issues with the LCDs (They look like just 12864 boards similar to those you find on 3D printers?). Do you have plans to upgrade this in near future? Or is the best recommendation for reliability to rather get the unit without an LCD?

- How many units have you supplied, so that the "no failures to date" claim can have some context? And how long have they been in service?

- I'm confused about the conditioning you mention, every 6-8 months. How does one do this? I thought the main selling point of lithium batteries was that they didn't have such a "charge memory"? Can this not be built into the BMS, if it's important for retaining charge cycles?

 

Hope it doesn't sound like I'm against Hubble batteries - I'm just trying to find out a bit more about them, because I might need a couple of new batteries in the near future, and I'm weighing up options :) 

 

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So I have 8 Pylons at my home and another 4 at my office... I have a fairly heavy (for me) investment in Pylon.

They have served me very well. No complaints.

I am about to start another project which will require a much larger PV offgrid system. I have no particular loyalty to Pylon and will happily jump to a different brand if it delivers better bang for buck.

The argument about longevity doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'll explain...

Just as we have seen 2.4s replaced by 3.5s (and now 4.8s) within two years, and ALL other brands of inverter shaded by Deye/Sunsynk in a year (Sorry Goodwe/Axpert/Victron, but it's true) so we are on the cusp of graphene hybrid replacing ALL other forms of battery storage, and possibly even some other technology for energy storage, well within the lifetimes of the current (groan) storage technology.

 

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14 minutes ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

So I have 8 Pylons at my home and another 4 at my office... I have a fairly heavy (for me) investment in Pylon.

They have served me very well. No complaints.

I am about to start another project which will require a much larger PV offgrid system. I have no particular loyalty to Pylon and will happily jump to a different brand if it delivers better bang for buck.

The argument about longevity doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'll explain...

Just as we have seen 2.4s replaced by 3.5s (and now 4.8s) within two years, and ALL other brands of inverter shaded by Deye/Sunsynk in a year (Sorry Goodwe/Axpert/Victron, but it's true) so we are on the cusp of graphene hybrid replacing ALL other forms of battery storage, and possibly even some other technology for energy storage, well within the lifetimes of the current (groan) storage technology.

 

Nothing wrong with sticking to what works for you and what you know.

Just like any other product, batteries will have failures and some people who have failed battery will never buy the same brand again, the same rule applies with good experience. For same reason i'm sticking with FreedomWon/Victron. It just works for me and not a moment of trouble.

This is quickly becoming Toyota/Ford debate. We can all argue until Eskom is fixed with no reasonable conclusion.

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37 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

I'm confused about the conditioning you mention, every 6-8 months. How does one do this? I thought the main selling point of lithium batteries was that they didn't have such a "charge memory"? Can this not be built into the BMS, if it's important for retaining charge cycles?

he means they have cells for backup 
Lifepo4 cells have a internal self discharge and there fore require a Mid charge or storage charge to keep them happy when stored and not used for long periods of time .
Correct they dont suffer from memory effects at all .

 

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1 hour ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

So I have 8 Pylons at my home and another 4 at my office... I have a fairly heavy (for me) investment in Pylon.

They have served me very well. No complaints.

I am about to start another project which will require a much larger PV offgrid system. I have no particular loyalty to Pylon and will happily jump to a different brand if it delivers better bang for buck.

The argument about longevity doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'll explain...

Just as we have seen 2.4s replaced by 3.5s (and now 4.8s) within two years, and ALL other brands of inverter shaded by Deye/Sunsynk in a year (Sorry Goodwe/Axpert/Victron, but it's true) so we are on the cusp of graphene hybrid replacing ALL other forms of battery storage, and possibly even some other technology for energy storage, well within the lifetimes of the current (groan) storage technology.

 

Thats a very valid point you make, the industry keeps changing, I for one owned Pylontech, Goodwe, Victron, each has its pros and cons. I currently have 9360w of PV, 8kw Sunsynk and 2 x 5.1 BSLB, and for the price versus performance, I'm yet to see something match. My PV array is 35 meters from the Inverter and I have 4mm solar cable with minimal losses. Reason for 4mm is that I can have a 400v string with less current. Victron being such a great brand still cannot produce an MPPT over 250v, that's not being judgmental, that's fact. Neither have they produced a Hybrid inverter. Does that make me hate Victron, no, however I know the limitations and that newer brands are getting ahead and you cannot as a brand rely purely on your name and blind followers.

Its the same with Hubble, BSLB and Pylontech.....

 

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7 hours ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

 

130 Kitson batteries.jpg

Dumb question what cable thickness are we running there ? Was this installed by a professional installer ? To me that looks like the Standard Pylon 25mm2 Cable and it looks like one set of 4 x US2000 =100Amp constant load max and 4 x US3000=128Amp  constant load Max. What size inverter is connected ? Context I bet the Installer installed a 160 AMP Fuse and Fuse Holder and its 160 Amp on the Pos and 160 amp on the neg..? So can any of the Solar Specialists here please tell me what the maximum amp rating for a 25mm2 Battery cable is? Also lets say the cable is 2 meters long with a voltage of 48VDC or what the recommended cable thickness for a Load of 100 amp @ 48v DC that is equal to 4.8KW the continuous load for the 4 x US2000 batteries and the 4 x US3000 Batteries can deliver 128 Amp @ 48v what is the recommended cable thickness for that maximum load which is equal to 6.144 KW ?

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14 minutes ago, Boerseun said:

Dumb question what cable thickness are we running there ? Was this installed by a professional installer ? To me that looks like the Standard Pylon 25mm2 Cable and it looks like one set of 4 x US2000 =100Amp constant load max and 4 x US3000=128Amp  constant load Max. What size inverter is connected ? Context I bet the Installer installed a 160 AMP Fuse and Fuse Holder and its 160 Amp on the Pos and 160 amp on the neg..? So can any of the Solar Specialists here please tell me what the maximum amp rating for a 25mm2 Battery cable is? Also lets say the cable is 2 meters long with a voltage of 48VDC or what the recommended cable thickness for a Load of 100 amp @ 48v DC that is equal to 4.8KW the continuous load for the 4 x US2000 batteries and the 4 x US3000 Batteries can deliver 128 Amp @ 48v what is the recommended cable thickness for that maximum load which is equal to 6.144 KW ?

if the 160A fuse is used, the cables will burn before the fuse blows. 

For this size I would use 50mm2 (or double 25mm2), although you could possibly get away with 35mm2

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32 minutes ago, Leshen said:

 Victron being such a great brand still cannot produce an MPPT over 250v, that's not being judgmental, that's fact. Neither have they produced a Hybrid inverter.

What exactly do you mean by "Hybrid"?

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42 minutes ago, Leshen said:

 Victron being such a great brand still cannot produce an MPPT over 250v, that's not being judgmental, that's fact. Neither have they produced a Hybrid inverter. Does that make me hate Victron, no, however I know the limitations and that newer brands are getting ahead and you cannot as a brand rely purely on your name and blind f

 

I beg to differ.

Victron RS 6000.PNG

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28 minutes ago, GVC said:

I beg to differ.

Victron RS 6000.PNG

Is this inverter available in South Africa?

 

28 minutes ago, GVC said:

I beg to differ.

Victron RS 6000.PNG

I think you need to check your facts again, this isn't a Hybrid inverter, its an off grid inverter.

Edited by Leshen
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2 minutes ago, Brani said:

Ok let me understand. What can Sunsynk do and Victron can’t?

Having said that, I think Sunsynk is a great inverter for money spent. 

Sunsynk inverters are hybrid they can supply power to both essential and non essentials loads. Cost wise Sunsynk is a fraction of the price.

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3 minutes ago, Chloe said:

Sunsynk inverters are hybrid they can supply power to both essential and non essentials loads. Cost wise Sunsynk is a fraction of the price.

Does that work by connecting to the generator input and using it as a smart load?

im sorry but I don’t know much about Sunsynk settings 

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