19 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

I feel that a Sunsynk’s fans are too loud and the SOLARMAN app isn’t that great. 

Hehe. I did see something about them bringing out their own app. Hopefully it's better than the existing options

9 hours ago, Jaco De Jongh said:

😀

I am showing you the error in what you said about the MPPT, I am not saying anything about any Hybrids, but to be honest, I did not expect you to understand. 

Many people battle with trying to understand you. 

31 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

I feel that a Sunsynk’s fans are too loud and the SOLARMAN app isn’t that great. 

I agree

15 hours ago, Boerseun said:

Dumb question what cable thickness are we running there ? Was this installed by a professional installer ? To me that looks like the Standard Pylon 25mm2 Cable and it looks like one set of 4 x US2000 =100Amp constant load max and 4 x US3000=128Amp  constant load Max. What size inverter is connected ? Context I bet the Installer installed a 160 AMP Fuse and Fuse Holder and its 160 Amp on the Pos and 160 amp on the neg..? So can any of the Solar Specialists here please tell me what the maximum amp rating for a 25mm2 Battery cable is? Also lets say the cable is 2 meters long with a voltage of 48VDC or what the recommended cable thickness for a Load of 100 amp @ 48v DC that is equal to 4.8KW the continuous load for the 4 x US2000 batteries and the 4 x US3000 Batteries can deliver 128 Amp @ 48v what is the recommended cable thickness for that maximum load which is equal to 6.144 KW ?

Exactly correct. The reason being that thicker battery cables become a real mess when bending around tight corners and when trying to fit connectors.

But, yes, point taken.

My installer is a professional... um... 'troublemaker' (it's what most people consider me). I qualified at the Suck-it-and-see academy.

You'd be wrong about the fuses. I used monstrous Mersen battery disconnect/fuse holders with 200A fuses because... see above.

Sad that this is degenerated into a mud slinging & pissing match.. Unfortunately having the discussion about Victron/SunSynk etc is misplaced and has detracted from the point. 

This was a battery discussion. Maybe we should stick to that, and go have the measuring contest in a different topic.

Unfortunately while Hubble is clearing following this, its not what I would call constructive forum to answer given the rest of the fluff. (although it does seem Hubble answering selective questions, which is their right, not like Pylon-tech is going to come chat with us). @HubbleLithiumMaybe post the details in the actual product pages or in the post where you shared the installation photo's.

The useful bit I have gathered so far that is that wiring of these stacks( 4/5 bats) is something we should be a little more mindful of. Does anyone have a spec on max current for 25mm^2 vs 50 mm^2.

It is however interesting to note that there is some bias to Hubble for now all three staff picks are Hubble related.....

@Energy-Jason is there any direct links between the forum admin and Hubble? I know the power-forum-store is the official agent for at least the RIOT, any other links that we should know about in the interest of transparency? (I have no issue if so but is good to understand nevertheless).

While I will continue to follow all of these topics as I have invested in the Hubble equipment , once installed I will share my experience.

 

Now back to the actual topic of batteries

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by Kill_switch
grammer

18 minutes ago, Kill_switch said:

Does anyone have a spec on max current for 25mm^2 vs 50 mm^2.

I use this calculator: https://www.solar-wind.co.uk/info/dc-cable-wire-sizing-tool-low-voltage-drop-calculator
Since battery cables seem to just be standard welding cables, attached is a datasheet which on page 3 shows current ratings. Use the 100% duty cycle column. The table shows current rating for 5 minutes of use, so adjust accordingly for cable heating up.

h01n2-d-welding-cable_2.pdf

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by recre8

5 minutes ago, recre8 said:

Since battery cables seem to just be standard welding cables, attached is a datasheet which on page 3 shows current ratings. Use the 100% duty cycle column

Thank you I also like to use the same online one, but not sure if there is different specs for RSA

Based on this 25mm^2 @50V is good enough for up to 9kW ( 180A* 50V nominal)

Thus the need for 50mm^2 seems rather excessive( pending your power requirements)?

What is clear is that if you have 25mm^2 your breaker should be less than the rated current, else the wire will fail before the breaker.. @PaulinNorthcliff might make sense to get a lower rated fuse if this is valid.

So, 160A fuse for 25mm^2 and 250A fuse for 50mm^2?

9 minutes ago, Brani said:

Here is a simple chart

Simple yes, however we now have 3 chart/specs each with a different preferred max... maybe that's why there is so much confusion?

Your spec gives 100A at 2.3 m (3% loss)

Website linked above gives 131A for 1% over the same distance

And the table linked gives 180A

and we wonder why each seems to hold their own view..

7 minutes ago, Kill_switch said:

And the table linked gives 180A

Note that the table in the welding cable datasheet is an absolute maximum rating... the footnote under the table says that the conductors reach 85 Celsius after 5 minutes at the rated current. So you should use that table more as a fuse/breaker rating than the sustained current for the cable. The calculator also notes 85 Celsius. 

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by recre8

2 minutes ago, recre8 said:

Note that the table in the welding cable datasheet is an absolute maximum rating... the footnote under the table says that the conductors reach 85 Celsius after 5 minutes at the rated current. So you should use that table more as a fuse/breaker rating than the sustained current for the cable.

out of interest, in a normal house hold set up, which appliances and how many of them will you have to switch on to reach 100A draw of the batteries? because in most cases you will use batteries for your lights, wifi router, Tv, mobile phone charging etc. I can have a stack of 8 x Pylons and still use a 21mm2 cable without any worry of over heating the cable. Even with all my lights on I will never reach 90A, let alone 160A 

Is my system safe? Yes it is safe because I will never ever get to draw over 100A from my battery bank

1 hour ago, Kill_switch said:

What is clear is that if you have 25mm^2 your breaker should be less than the rated current, else the wire will fail before the breaker.. @PaulinNorthcliff might make sense to get a lower rated fuse if this is valid.

So, 160A fuse for 25mm^2 and 250A fuse for 50mm^2?

 

Yeah, turns out I 'misremembered'. The Mersen fuses are 125A.

5 minutes ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

Yeah, turns out I 'misremembered'. The Mersen fuses are 125A.

Does this mean I'm alright?

1 minute ago, ThatGuy said:

 Doesn't the battery come with a suggestion for fuse rating in the installation manual though?

What is this "manual" of which you speak?

1 hour ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

What is this "manual" of which you speak?

 

US2000 Plus Product Manual.pdf

1 hour ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

What is this "manual" of which you speak?

 

Installation Manual-US3000C 20CQSV1103.pdf

2 minutes ago, Leshen said:

 

US2000 Plus Product Manual.pdf 1.39 MB · 0 downloads

Irony is lost on you.

2 minutes ago, Leshen said:

 

Installation Manual-US3000C 20CQSV1103.pdf 1.69 MB · 0 downloads

;-{>}

20 hours ago, Brani said:

Apologies for hijacking the discussion.

Hubble is still to answer the questions asked.

For cable sizing,there are many calculators and all of them will confirm that 21.1mm@ is not enough for 3-4 Pylontec batteries.

Here is a simple chart

 

Agreed. @HubbleLithium dodging those questions doesn't exactly do much to inspire confidence in their brand. 

16 minutes ago, Speedster said:

Agreed. @HubbleLithium dodging those questions doesn't exactly do much to inspire confidence in their brand. 

No, this thread has descended into a mud-slinging contest. There is really no way for them to improve it by commenting again - I certainly would not if I were them.

31 minutes ago, P1000 said:

No, this thread has descended into a mud-slinging contest. There is really no way for them to improve it by commenting again - I certainly would not if I were them.

They have a great opportunity to set the record straight. Their selectively avoiding certain questions creates the impression that they're trying to hide those answers, and leads us (maybe just me?) to assume the worst. They don't need to comment on anything about other brands, simply answer the outstanding questions related to their product. 

I am actively looking to buy a battery and was strongly considering their product, until I read their half-baked answer. If they aren't willing to answer those questions, there is no way I'm buying their product. 

Yeah, so the mud-slinging aside... The almost inevitable reverse justification for purchases always occurs... Land-Rover vs Landcruiser, Glock vs CZ, etc, etc, ad nauseum. We're all adults dealing with an adult topic. Maybe we all just need to learn how to deal with criticism without demanding a safe space. Robust debate is always good.

I'm genuinely quite interested in Hubble (despite their approach to this thread - which was to trash Pylon), for the same reason that Deye/Sunsynk leapfrogged all the other (more established) brands. That's the benefit of competition.

This thread has been illuminating for me, and not just because I learned that I need to upgrade my battery cables ;-{)}

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by PaulinNorthcliff

2 minutes ago, PaulinNorthcliff said:

(despite their approach to this thread - which was to trash Pylon)

Strange that you Blame Hubble for trashing Pylontech.. I have read all the threads and there is not one post by Hubble saying anything about Pylontech... Leshen which is a member of the forum here compared the batteries interesting how you blame a Brand for opinions of individuals.. so much emotional responses with so few facts from a lot of people here that says a lot and don't actually know what they are talking about... besides the thread went completely off topic. Besides a battery manufacturer does not specify recommended cable sizes the Inverter Manual normally specifies and recommends the right battery cable size based on the potential current draw and charging current capabilities of the inverter or MPPT connected to the Battery... You can have 50KW of battery but if your inverter is rated at 1KW then the recommended cable size would be dictated by how much the inverter system can draw from the battery at any time.. 

Oh sigh...

Thanks for your comments re the cable size anyway. Have a great day.

15 minutes ago, Boerseun said:

Strange that you Blame Hubble for trashing Pylontech.. I have read all the threads and there is not one post by Hubble saying anything about Pylontech... Leshen which is a member of the forum here compared the batteries interesting how you blame a Brand for opinions of individuals.. so much emotional responses with so few facts from a lot of people here that says a lot and don't actually know what they are talking about... besides the thread went completely off topic. Besides a battery manufacturer does not specify recommended cable sizes the Inverter Manual normally specifies and recommends the right battery cable size based on the potential current draw and charging current capabilities of the inverter or MPPT connected to the Battery... You can have 50KW of battery but if your inverter is rated at 1KW then the recommended cable size would be dictated by how much the inverter system can draw from the battery at any time.. 

Well said Boerseun. 

Hi Community,

Seems the forum is decending into just degrading brands and negative commenting which is very unfortunate, as the powerforum is a great wealth of knowledge for power backup and solar enthusiasts. 
We're not dodging questions, we dont live on this forum, and we are not affiliated to powerforum. Seems if we dont answer questions immediately then there are negative views. We only check this forum once a week if that. If you have questions please contact us through our official channels or on our website contact form.

For support and technical questions please contact us direct through our official channels, we will be more than happy to assist our clients.