February 15, 20215 yr 44 minutes ago, Achmat said: I only have 3 pylontechs currently on my 8kw sunsynk so I know the limitation of the 0.5C rating. Currently they only get me to 3am So with 3*3.5kW pylontechs you should get a 4kW draw from the batteries = 83A, which is what I get occasionally. Are you feeding your entire house using 8kW Sunsync with no grid input (off-grid), then yes the 1c vs 0.5C will make a difference. However, the entire purpose of having a hybrid grid-tied inverter is to cater for additional power when your PV+Battery is inadequate, so in reality the 1C vs 0.5C makes little difference because what your battery+PV cannot provide the grid will! The 1C vs 0.5C is only really an issue when you are off grid....And who in his right mind requires an off-grid setup to provide 8kW of power, you will in any case require a massive battery bank so again the 1C vs 0.5C argument is a non issue. "Currently they only get me to 3am" is that because you have a massive drain on them and require more capacity or because the 1C charge rate is an issue?
February 15, 20215 yr 59 minutes ago, Leshen said: You will need 4 x UP5000, 6 x US3000 and 8 x US2000 for the same instantanoeus power output of 2 x 5.5 kWh Hubble’s or BSLB. The average homeowner in South Africa cannot afford a 21kwh battery bank to solve a simple manufacturing issue. The average homeowner in South Africa doesn't need 5kw of instantaneous power during a night time grid outage / loadshedding
February 15, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, Boerseun said: look at the spec sheet on the 5.5 KW AM2 Full CAN Comms and it works with the Riot Cloudlink the 4.8 x100 model is more for your Axpert Clone Range I wasn't actually aware of the AM2. Anyone know how big the price difference is between the X100 and AM2?
February 15, 20215 yr 35 minutes ago, Brani said: I would have doubled up those cables here, as you are supposed to carry 148A from each bank, and 21-25mm2 is not enough. There is an extra terminal on each bank that could be used. That's an interesting idea. So the additional terminals on each bank would go to the same place??? It seems to me that this could be problematic???
February 15, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, Leshen said: That’s one example. What about an 8kw Sunsynk with 2 x 4.8kwh Pylontechs. You will only get 4.8kw which is very easy to exceed. So guess what happens during a grid outage at night, the inverter will go into fault mode and shut down. See the attached picture of an 8kw Inge inverter which keeps going into fault mode with 2 x 4.8kwh 0.5C batteries. The only way to get around that is to have more batteries, that’s not the solution, the solution is for other popular manufacturers to produce 1C batteries. What do you think will happen with pricing if Pylontech produce an actual 1C battery? That’s where the Hubble’s are better. And this my friends is a prime example !!!! In 5 , 6 , 8 , 10 years time when you approach Pylontech and say listen my battery is not performing . They will accept the unit for warranty . Inspect the Logs and come back with Your batteries exceed max Rated current draw and there fore we cannot offer you a warranty . Its happened already .!
February 15, 20215 yr 5 minutes ago, Zimnismoboy34 said: And this my friends is a prime example !!!! In 5 , 6 , 8 , 10 years time when you approach Pylontech and say listen my battery is not performing . They will accept the unit for warranty . Inspect the Logs and come back with Your batteries exceed max Rated current draw and there fore we cannot offer you a warranty . Its happened already .! Can you expand on where this has happened?
February 15, 20215 yr Author 2 hours ago, calypso said: Classy... My classiness was a mere response to your initial post. Instead of highlighting facts, you decide to respond with an emotional outburst. Maybe Pylontech can pay for you to do Electricity 101, that way you can post something of substance so that someone who isn't part of a fan club can learn something from. Its similar to Victron 8kw vs a Sunsynk 8kw, the Sunsynk is better in many aspects to a Victron but the Victron fan club will never admit it.
February 15, 20215 yr 5 minutes ago, Leshen said: My classiness was a mere response to your initial post. Instead of highlighting facts, you decide to respond with an emotional outburst. Maybe Pylontech can pay for you to do Electricity 101, that way you can post something of substance so that someone who isn't part of a fan club can learn something from. Its similar to Victron 8kw vs a Sunsynk 8kw, the Sunsynk is better in many aspects to a Victron but the Victron fan club will never admit it. When there is money involved it always becomes a personal matter ... Thats the issue ! It then moves from personal to emotional and anger tends to become the center of attention .
February 15, 20215 yr interesting to note 10 year warranty on cells and 5 years on a bms ? Why only a 5 year warranty on a electrical PCB product ?
February 15, 20215 yr 23 minutes ago, Leshen said: My classiness was a mere response to your initial post. Instead of highlighting facts, you decide to respond with an emotional outburst. Maybe Pylontech can pay for you to do Electricity 101, that way you can post something of substance so that someone who isn't part of a fan club can learn something from. Its similar to Victron 8kw vs a Sunsynk 8kw, the Sunsynk is better in many aspects to a Victron but the Victron fan club will never admit it. I'm trying to figure out if you're very pro-Hubble or very anti-Pylon?
February 15, 20215 yr 4 minutes ago, ThatGuy said: It could also be both, FYI. 😋 However, IMO the arguments Leshen makes seem to be based on the facts available, so if you feel strongly that his opinion is incorrect, then the onus is on you to present better evidence. Can't we all just get along, united in our mutual hatred of Eskom Back to the tech though: Does anyone have insight into the test methods used to determine the cycle life figures, with some more comprehensive data to share on both batteries? I see the manufacturer themselves are following this thread, so if they're confident of the values in their brochure then sharing results here would be a very easy way to show the superiority of your product. To my mind, they HAVE to use accelerated testing methods or extrapolation, since testing a 9000 cycle battery would take... let see... 1C... 9000 cycles... the maths says... 375 days, minimum. Maybe it was done, but yeah no yeah, I don't see it happening. So my preference would be for a battery that's been on the market for at least a few years over a new-to-market, just because I believe they would have to be running product tests in parallel with actually releasing the battery. Would love to know if this is true or not. Hehe. That's a good point. I'm all for facts, but he seem's to be zooming in onto one fact (C number) which is insignificant in most use cases. There are other factors which he's simply ignoring, such as price and guaranteed cycle life. Also, Pylontech's are doing fantastically well in those independant trials taking place in Aus as well as in other international reviews. I haven't seen one credible independent review of the Hubble's as yet. Not saying they're bad battteries, just that there's a lot of info still missing. Pylon is now a tried and tested brand and that counts for something.
February 15, 20215 yr Author 2 minutes ago, Speedster said: Hehe. That's a good point. I'm all for facts, but he seem's to be zooming in onto one fact (C number) which is insignificant in most use cases. There are other factors which he's simply ignoring, such as price and guaranteed cycle life. Also, Pylontech's are doing fantastically well in those independant trials taking place in Aus as well as in other international reviews. I haven't seen one credible independent review of the Hubble's as yet. Not saying they're bad battteries, just that there's a lot of info still missing. Pylon is now a tried and tested brand and that counts for something. What solar system do you have, battery setup with inverter?
February 15, 20215 yr 8 minutes ago, ThatGuy said: To my mind, they HAVE to use accelerated testing methods or extrapolation, since testing a 9000 cycle battery would take... let see... 1C... 9000 cycles... the maths says... 375 days, minimum. Maybe it was done, but yeah no yeah, I don't see it happening. So my preference would be for a battery that's been on the market for at least a few years over a new-to-market, just because I believe they would have to be running product tests in parallel with actually releasing the battery. Would love to know if this is true or not. Yes, that's why the AU testing is a good indication of what can be expected from a battery. The Pylontechs were measured and came out at a much lower cycle than advertised, as did most of the batteries tested. The Hubble and Bull people should have their batteries tested, simple, then we can make an informed decision as to what a "good deal" is.... Advertising is cheap talk until the batteries are tested and their performance confirmed. In fact a regulator should force this ........
February 15, 20215 yr While this thread has a lot of interest, who has a copy of the latest batterview.exe so I can actually see what's going on with my pylontechs? What is the latest, working version?
February 15, 20215 yr 4 hours ago, FixAMess said: So with 3*3.5kW pylontechs you should get a 4kW draw from the batteries = 83A, which is what I get occasionally. Are you feeding your entire house using 8kW Sunsync with no grid input (off-grid), then yes the 1c vs 0.5C will make a difference. However, the entire purpose of having a hybrid grid-tied inverter is to cater for additional power when your PV+Battery is inadequate, so in reality the 1C vs 0.5C makes little difference because what your battery+PV cannot provide the grid will! The 1C vs 0.5C is only really an issue when you are off grid....And who in his right mind requires an off-grid setup to provide 8kW of power, you will in any case require a massive battery bank so again the 1C vs 0.5C argument is a non issue. "Currently they only get me to 3am" is that because you have a massive drain on them and require more capacity or because the 1C charge rate is an issue? Yes in feeding my whole house from the sunsynk but still connected to the grid so in hybrid mode. I do however want to get my grid usage to zero eventually and the only way to do this would be to increase my battery bank to 6 pylontechs. The 0.5C discharge was only an issue once during a very early morning load shedding slot before the sun came up.
February 15, 20215 yr I would like if they could provide a graph rather with cycles and DOD. Neither 100% DOD, nor 50% DOD are real-world use-cases and you can't really estimate anything if you only have those two values. Also, is there a standard whereby "cycles" are measured? e.g. 80% capacity left after stated number of cycles. Or does everyone just use their own definition?
February 15, 20215 yr 59 minutes ago, Leshen said: What solar system do you have, battery setup with inverter? Not installed yet. Will be hybrid inverter with PV and battery
February 15, 20215 yr 55 minutes ago, FixAMess said: Yes, that's why the AU testing is a good indication of what can be expected from a battery. The Pylontechs were measured and came out at a much lower cycle than advertised, as did most of the batteries tested. The Hubble and Bull people should have their batteries tested, simple, then we can make an informed decision as to what a "good deal" is.... Advertising is cheap talk until the batteries are tested and their performance confirmed. In fact a regulator should force this ........ I must have read a different report. The one I saw the Pylons were outperforming the other brands.
February 15, 20215 yr 35 minutes ago, recre8 said: I would like if they could provide a graph rather with cycles and DOD. Neither 100% DOD, nor 50% DOD are real-world use-cases and you can't really estimate anything if you only have those two values. Also, is there a standard whereby "cycles" are measured? e.g. 80% capacity left after stated number of cycles. Or does everyone just use their own definition? Pylontech were the first to change the industry standard and call End of life at 60%. I see freedomwon doing the same now too ..... in short amazing . IEC rated has and is till to my knowledge 80% retaining capacity not 60% . Its easy to say my battery will last 10 000 cycles to 20% EOL ? REALLY! Come on guys some logic here . Yes the pylontech are rated to 6500 cycles at 60% which if maths does me justice proves a cycle life of 4000 cycles roughly at 80% and if we change the low voltage cut off and high voltage cut off to 2.5v and 3.65v (lifepo4) then we get less to about 2500 to 3500 cycles does the vision start becoming a little clearer ? All good quality batteries come with a cycle life estimated . But all batteries @25 deg C usage for their whole lives at low C discharge and charge rates will last a super long time . Temp kills batteries have said it time and time again . Low c rates = low internal temps . used indoors 25deg C = long cycle life Narrow voltage SOC window = Long cycle life There is more to this equation i can go into more detail . But can i ask does hubble both 100x and AM series only have rs485 ?
February 15, 20215 yr So I have 8 Pylons at my home and another 4 at my office... I have a fairly heavy (for me) investment in Pylon. They have served me very well. No complaints. I am about to start another project which will require a much larger PV offgrid system. I have no particular loyalty to Pylon and will happily jump to a different brand if it delivers better bang for buck. The argument about longevity doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'll explain... Just as we have seen 2.4s replaced by 3.5s (and now 4.8s) within two years, and ALL other brands of inverter shaded by Deye/Sunsynk in a year (Sorry Goodwe/Axpert/Victron, but it's true) so we are on the cusp of graphene hybrid replacing ALL other forms of battery storage, and possibly even some other technology for energy storage, well within the lifetimes of the current (groan) storage technology.
February 15, 20215 yr 37 minutes ago, ThatGuy said: I'm confused about the conditioning you mention, every 6-8 months. How does one do this? I thought the main selling point of lithium batteries was that they didn't have such a "charge memory"? Can this not be built into the BMS, if it's important for retaining charge cycles? he means they have cells for backup Lifepo4 cells have a internal self discharge and there fore require a Mid charge or storage charge to keep them happy when stored and not used for long periods of time . Correct they dont suffer from memory effects at all .
February 15, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, PaulinNorthcliff said: So I have 8 Pylons at my home and another 4 at my office... I have a fairly heavy (for me) investment in Pylon. They have served me very well. No complaints. I am about to start another project which will require a much larger PV offgrid system. I have no particular loyalty to Pylon and will happily jump to a different brand if it delivers better bang for buck. The argument about longevity doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'll explain... Just as we have seen 2.4s replaced by 3.5s (and now 4.8s) within two years, and ALL other brands of inverter shaded by Deye/Sunsynk in a year (Sorry Goodwe/Axpert/Victron, but it's true) so we are on the cusp of graphene hybrid replacing ALL other forms of battery storage, and possibly even some other technology for energy storage, well within the lifetimes of the current (groan) storage technology. Thats a very valid point you make, the industry keeps changing, I for one owned Pylontech, Goodwe, Victron, each has its pros and cons. I currently have 9360w of PV, 8kw Sunsynk and 2 x 5.1 BSLB, and for the price versus performance, I'm yet to see something match. My PV array is 35 meters from the Inverter and I have 4mm solar cable with minimal losses. Reason for 4mm is that I can have a 400v string with less current. Victron being such a great brand still cannot produce an MPPT over 250v, that's not being judgmental, that's fact. Neither have they produced a Hybrid inverter. Does that make me hate Victron, no, however I know the limitations and that newer brands are getting ahead and you cannot as a brand rely purely on your name and blind followers. Its the same with Hubble, BSLB and Pylontech.....
February 15, 20215 yr 7 hours ago, PaulinNorthcliff said: Dumb question what cable thickness are we running there ? Was this installed by a professional installer ? To me that looks like the Standard Pylon 25mm2 Cable and it looks like one set of 4 x US2000 =100Amp constant load max and 4 x US3000=128Amp constant load Max. What size inverter is connected ? Context I bet the Installer installed a 160 AMP Fuse and Fuse Holder and its 160 Amp on the Pos and 160 amp on the neg..? So can any of the Solar Specialists here please tell me what the maximum amp rating for a 25mm2 Battery cable is? Also lets say the cable is 2 meters long with a voltage of 48VDC or what the recommended cable thickness for a Load of 100 amp @ 48v DC that is equal to 4.8KW the continuous load for the 4 x US2000 batteries and the 4 x US3000 Batteries can deliver 128 Amp @ 48v what is the recommended cable thickness for that maximum load which is equal to 6.144 KW ?
February 15, 20215 yr 42 minutes ago, Leshen said: Victron being such a great brand still cannot produce an MPPT over 250v, that's not being judgmental, that's fact. Neither have they produced a Hybrid inverter. Does that make me hate Victron, no, however I know the limitations and that newer brands are getting ahead and you cannot as a brand rely purely on your name and blind f I beg to differ.
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