Are the problems with Hubble repairs getting less and /or resolved sooner?

[Nexuss]

wow , so the person doing their warranties does not know the very basics of electricity. That is crazy and scary. 

[Steve87]

I prefer to fight stupidity by speaking to a person that is technically Inclined & understands that this is the same way you connected the battery. So if they ask was the battery daisy chained then show them their diagram & say it's like you recommended. The understanding of the phrase daisy chain can be taken out of context to be positive or negative in alignment of their way of connecting. 

 

[Leshen]

 

wow , so the person doing their warranties does not know the very basics of electricity. That is crazy and scary. 

It gets way better. This is the manager of the Johannesburg branch 

[Leshen]

 

I prefer to fight stupidity by speaking to a person that is technically Inclined & understands that this is the same way you connected the battery. So if they ask was the battery daisy chained then show them their diagram & say it's like you recommended. The understanding of the phrase daisy chain can be taken out of context to be positive or negative in alignment of their way of connecting. 

 

I did that and guess what, they ignored that mail. And when they don’t want to put anything in writing, they call you and pretend to understand your point. If you look at how they respond, they are determined to void warranties. Hubble won’t last long if they continue down this path 

[HendrikBigChief]

 

Look at this response which shows how ignorant they are. 
 

Hi Leshen

 

Just to clarify, you have installed 2 batteries that are exposed to a cable that potentially can be energised up to 160A. You do know that each battery is only rated to a maximum charge/discharge current of 100 Amps?

 

I have attached the BMS log as requested.

 

I stand by my initial email that the warranty is void, once again refer to our warranty document attached, specifically item #12.

 

You are welcome to take any measures that you see fit.

The cable is irrelevant, surely if you set the max charge current in the inverter correctly, then you should be good. What is that guy on about.

[Nexuss]

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that all the faulty AM2's must of really hurt them and now they are trying to hang on to the little bit of profit they have left. I am sure the more technical people there know exactly what is going on but they likely cant do anything about it or risk their jobs. 

[PowerUser]

 

It gets way better. This is the manager of the Johannesburg branch 

Since they are asking you for PV green card, please ask the Johannesburg branch manager for a copy of his/hers electrical degree. 

[P1000]

 

Hubble won’t last long if they continue down this path 

I'm surprized they lasted this long. The mistakes in their setup of the BMS when they first launched combined with NMC cells and the fact that they rely on charging to 4.1V to try and extend the cell life to their claims. It was clear to me it would end with them not being able to honor warranty claims.

[PowerUser]

 

I'm surprized they lasted this long. The mistakes in their setup of the BMS when they first launched combined with NMC cells and the fact that they rely on charging to 4.1V to try and extend the cell life to their claims. It was clear to me it would end with them not being able to honor warranty claims.

Any manufacturer can have faulty cells. The issue is how they resolve the problem.

My Hubble with the NMC cells and charging to whatever the BMS tells it, is still working perfectly and still on 100% SOH.

[Leshen]

 

Any manufacturer can have faulty cells. The issue is how they resolve the problem.

My Hubble with the NMC cells and charging to whatever the BMS tells it, is still working perfectly and still on 100% SOH.

I do have installs where the batteries are going on for 3 years with no issues but there is a batch that’s extremely problematic and blaming installers isn’t a way to deal with their own issues 

[P1000]

 

Any manufacturer can have faulty cells. The issue is how they resolve the problem.

This is very true.

 

My Hubble with the NMC cells and charging to whatever the BMS tells it, is still working perfectly and still on 100% SOH.

Sorry, that wasn't meant as a personal attack on you or your batteries. It was on their technical knowledge and claims for life expectancy of their product that would lead to dissatisfied customers down the line. NMC can be fine batteries - if you know and acknowledge their limitations. I would not recommend them simply because LiFePO is intrinsically much safer and usually has better cycle life (with some other tradeoffs that don't really matter to me, like discharge rates, operating temperature range and energy density).

 

As an aside - the SOH reported by the PACE BMS is the same as the "Full Capacity(AH)" column in the log, divided by the design capacity. At entry 288 you can see it drop from 100 to 48 in less than 5 minutes, so it's not always a very accurate reflection of life left.

Edited September 19, 2023 by P1000

[PowerUser]

 

because LiFePO is intrinsically much safer

Do you have anything to backup this claim? And please no links to YouTube clips. Only cold facts about Hubble NMC batteries safety issues specifically?

[Leshen]

 

Since they are asking you for PV green card, please ask the Johannesburg branch manager for a copy of his/hers electrical degree. 

I’m still waiting for a response on what’s a fast acting fuse between a battery and inverter. 

[PowerUser]

 

I’m still waiting for a response on what’s a fast acting fuse between a battery and inverter. 

They are probably talking about gS rated fuse and not gG as per @TaliaB post here:

 

[Leshen]

 

They are probably talking about gS rated fuse and not gG as per @TaliaB post here:

 

Thanks. Do you know where I can get gS rated fuses. 
 

Segen Solar supplies only gG fuses and that’s what they recommend when you purchase a Hubble/Sunsynk combo from them. 
 

Besides it’s not part of their warranty conditions. It’s all smoke and mirrors in my opinion. 

[PowerUser]

 

Thanks. Do you know where I can get gS rated fuses. 
 

Segen Solar supplies only gG fuses and that’s what they recommend when you purchase a Hubble/Sunsynk combo from them. 
 

Besides it’s not part of their warranty conditions. It’s all smoke and mirrors in my opinion. 

I have no idea. Maybe ask @TaliaB. Segen supplied me with gG fuses for my Hubble as well and that's what I'm using.

[TaliaB]

 

Thanks. Do you know where I can get gS rated fuses. 
 

Segen Solar supplies only gG fuses and that’s what they recommend when you purchase a Hubble/Sunsynk combo from them. 
 

Besides it’s not part of their warranty conditions. It’s all smoke and mirrors in my opinion. 

Hi @Leshensorry to hear about your bad experience with that bunch at Hubble lot of as.... the reason i don't deal with Hubble after my bad experience 3 years ago but that is a discussion for another day. The fuses are not suppose to protect the battery in overcurrent situations as the fast blow fuses still has a time delay the gS is fast blowing only when the maximum threshold is reached. The lady in procurement sometimes import these fuses from Electro Mechanica as they are not always available but i also get the gS fuses from Electro Mechanica in SA from their sub division called Df Electric. Below link on top page you can go to Branch Locator to find a branch closest to you. Look for Rapidplus NH gS

https://www.em.co.za/df-electric

Edited September 19, 2023 by TaliaB

[AlexTZA]

On 2023/09/19 at 12:15 PM, Leshen said:

Thanks. Do you know where I can get gS rated fuses. 
 

Segen Solar supplies only gG fuses and that’s what they recommend when you purchase a Hubble/Sunsynk combo from them. 
 

Besides it’s not part of their warranty conditions. It’s all smoke and mirrors in my opinion. 

Yes, this is a rather unfortunately situation. We also moved away from using Hubble a while ago due to all the problems with the AM2s and they are still the batteries that give us the most  issues. The time spent on resolving these these issues is just not acceptable/sustainable. For example, their latest firmware requires one to fully discharge the battery to 44V and then back up to 100% as part of the update/fix procedure which as one might imagine is quite fun to do during loadshedding and for sites with multiple batteries - one better have lots of good reading material on hand. So while we also have installations that have never had issues, I'm very wary of the longevity of these batteries and ultimately, as you point out, what warranty backing Hubble will actually provide over time. Their documented warranty allows them to invalidate the warranty under almost any conditions which is not at all comforting at all as it does appear the AM2 has some serious problems.

We also have gone through the pushback from them on the  BMS warranty/100A discharge story which a load of BS. Their website and own manual/datasheet proclaim how the battery has "current limiting" and will work perfectly with non-BMS comms inverters because of all the BMS protections that will prevent overcurrent situations. But at the first turn, they attempted to throw BMS logs back at us indicating the battery was discharged at currents higher than 100A (they produced BMS logs indicating up to 125A), yet the BMS does absolutely nothing to prevent this and thus destroyed itself. After pointing this rather conflicting information out to them, they have thus far repaired various batteries for us under warranty without further issue.

So yes, the brand damage is done in my mind - we cannot in good conscience or from a risk point of view use Hubble batteries. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by AlexTZA