Derek Ramos Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 Hi, so I have another topic going about my requirements, I will send a link if required. it seems difficult to find out which battery is best… I know most people would shop for the cheapest to save money but what I’m trying to find out is which battery brand has the best after sales service, communication with the invert, best battery monitoring and best protection for the battery regardless of the price I am starting my solar journey and at this point I have almost settled on starting with a 8kw sunsynk inverter (unless someone changes my mind) I will also be buying 2 x 4.8kw lithium batteries (unless there are other options) I see the most common batteries used or spoken about here are, Hubble, pylon, freedom won, narada. I haven’t see to many people speaking about sunsynk batteries though. Also, is there anyone out who has tested the 3-4000 cycles and 10 warranty on some of these batteries. what’s your thoughts? Please let me know even if it’s the smallest detail. Quote
Yellow Measure Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Derek Ramos said: I have almost settled on starting with a 8kw sunsynk inverter Great choice. 1 hour ago, Derek Ramos said: I haven’t see to many people speaking about sunsynk batteries though. That is because they are basically white-labelled pylontech batteries. 1 hour ago, Derek Ramos said: Also, is there anyone out who has tested the 3-4000 cycles and 10 warranty on some of these batteries. Many seem to have, we know that Hubble has had some claims (and that they were honored). 1 hour ago, Derek Ramos said: it seems difficult to find out which battery is best If price were no objective (as your thread title suggests) then there is currently no better that the Zenaj Aeon LTO battery. You will probably need 2 or 3 of them, but they boast a 22,000 Cycle life at 1C discharge rate capacity. I am not sure of your age, but that's probably more than your lifetime. https://zenaji.com/aeon-battery/ They are pricey though, and realistically, considering South Africa's price-sensitive market and weak currency, so you have a choice of Freedom Won, Pylontech, Hubble, Dyness, BYD and BSLBatt (and some others that I haven't mentioned). I have both Hubble and Pylontech at two different installs, and if I did another install today, I'd probably go for Hubble again. My reasons are many, but a 1C battery being locally supported with a good track record speaks volumes. I'd also consider BSLBatt (another 1C contender) and BYD, depending on price performance. 1 hour ago, Derek Ramos said: is there anyone out who has tested the 3-4000 cycles and 10 warranty on some of these batteries. As all of the available batteries are pretty much new, testing of 10 year warranties isn't possible today. The closest you will get is the testing conducted in Australia https://batterytestcentre.com.au/ valienté, Scorp007, P1000 and 1 other 3 1 Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 Yellowtapemeasure, thank you for the time taken to write this post. the reason for my quote of “if price didn’t matter” is to narrow down the field so that performance and reliability would be the main reason for every persons choice. now that you have mentioned a few batteries that you would recommend, the price factor according to its ability comes into play. prices are rough estimates on 4.8kw batteries (100ah) Freedom won- 44000 hubble- 27000 pylon- 24000 dyness-25000 byd- 67000 bsl- 33000 lbsa- 30000 narada- 23000 the Sun pays- 22000. because of your post the benchmark now is Hubble batteries, so according to price a lot of the expensive ones won’t be considered. I will now research Hubble next to the cheaper options such as narada, pylon, dynes. I would greatly appreciate any comment you have on the selection of cheaper options and why you wouldn’t consider them or why you would consider them. I don’t want to go the cheap route if it’s not warranted. But if there is not to much difference regarding the cheaper to most expensive I would definitely consider a cheaper battery. Quote
Bobster. Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Derek Ramos said: Hi, so I have another topic going about my requirements, I will send a link if required. it seems difficult to find out which battery is best… I know most people would shop for the cheapest to save money but what I’m trying to find out is which battery brand has the best after sales service, communication with the invert, best battery monitoring and best protection for the battery regardless of the price I am starting my solar journey and at this point I have almost settled on starting with a 8kw sunsynk inverter (unless someone changes my mind) I will also be buying 2 x 4.8kw lithium batteries (unless there are other options) I see the most common batteries used or spoken about here are, Hubble, pylon, freedom won, narada. I haven’t see to many people speaking about sunsynk batteries though. Also, is there anyone out who has tested the 3-4000 cycles and 10 warranty on some of these batteries. what’s your thoughts? Please let me know even if it’s the smallest detail. Pylontech. They are doing very well in the tests that YellowTapemeasure mentions, and comms support (IE BMS exchanging data with the inverter via a cable) is available for just about every modern hybrid inverter. Also they are usually run as several small units in parallel. EG to get 10 kw/h of backup with my Goodwe you would run 5 x USB2000 or 3 x USB3000. I would rather have this than one big, fat, 10 kw/h battery, as if something goes wrong with the P'Tech usually they will take away only unit in the pack and still leave me with some backup. FixAMess and Nexuss 2 Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, Bobster said: Also they are usually run as several small units in parallel. EG to get 10 kw/h of backup with my Goodwe you would run 5 x USB2000 or 3 x USB3000. I would rather have this than one big, fat, 10 kw/h battery, as if something goes wrong with the P'Tech usually they will take away only unit in the pack and still leave me with some backup. Thank you Bobster, that’s very useful information. Appreciate your input. Quote
Nexuss Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 If money was not a problem i would definitely go for a stack of 4x Pylontech US3000c or UP5000. I couldnt be happier with my 2 US3000C's just wish i had 2 more of them haha. Van theplanman 1 Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 30 minutes ago, Nexuss said: If money was not a problem i would definitely go for a stack of 4x Pylontech US3000c or UP5000. I couldnt be happier with my 2 US3000C's just wish i had 2 more of them haha. Thank you Nexuss, awesome feedback! Quote
Iceman_1970 Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 I have two Freedom Won E-tower 5kwh batteries and am very happy with performance so far after a two months, I will probably add a third in future. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 24, 2022 Author Posted May 24, 2022 On 2022/05/23 at 3:08 AM, YellowTapemeasure said: My reasons are many, but a 1C battery being locally supported with a good track record speaks volumes. Hi @YellowTapemeasure if possible could you give a brief explanation what a 1c battery means and why it is a good thing. Struggling to info that I can understand. I might be getting a good deal on pylontech batteries but if they came outright and said it was a 1c I would buy them but I can’t find there c rating.. I did read somewhere that the us3000 was a 0.5 c but again I don’t know what that means. Quote
Yellow Measure Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Derek Ramos said: Hi @YellowTapemeasure if possible could you give a brief explanation what a 1c battery means and why it is a good thing. Struggling to info that I can understand. I might be getting a good deal on pylontech batteries but if they came outright and said it was a 1c I would buy them but I can’t find there c rating.. I did read somewhere that the us3000 was a 0.5 c but again I don’t know what that means. It is the quotient of the maximum continuous discharge rate in amps divided by the capacity of the battery in amp hours. A Pylontech US3000 has a max continuous discharge rate of 37A and a capacity of 73Ah, thus it is 0.5C. Peak discharge rates don't count, it needs to be continuous. The maximum continuous discharge rate is important because higher discharge rates affect battery longevity, so it's easier for a manufacturer to give a longer term warranty on a battery that only allows a trickle. It is also important because it dictates how many battery units you need to place in parallel to get the rate of discharge that is suitable for the load of your inverter. Derek Ramos and BritishRacingGreen 2 Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 25, 2022 Author Posted May 25, 2022 @YellowTapemeasureperfect, thank you I understand now. Quote
isetech Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 Sunsynk battery, one because it will be linked to a Sunsynk inverter, 2 because I hear a rumble in the jungle about a 1 C Sunsynk and a warranty upgrade to the inverter battery combo, a rumble in the jungle or fact, not sure, will soon find out. Hubble was going to be my choice, in fact I ordered but due to no stock available, and lack of support (still havent been able to get through ), I had time to shop around and do more research. It sounds like there is a whole lot of new stuff being launched soon, which could result in better prices and maybe better option for 1C batteries. Quote
isetech Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 1C ... in simple terms : IF your inverter can pull 100 amps make sure your battery is also capable of being able to discharged at 100 amps. An example a Sunsynk inverter can pull 100 amps, so using a 0.5C battery which can only produce 50 amp will require you to reduce the inverter capacity to only 50 amps. Like buying a big water pump and installing a 12 mm pipe and not a 22 mm pipe, you still going to get water, but at half the capacity. I am busy putting a system together and I was going to buy a 5.5KWH 0.5C battery (50 amp discharge rate) at the same price of a 5.5KWH 1C battery (100 amp discharge), while reading the inverter manual I found that the inverter can pull 100 amps, then I started asking the question why would I install a battery only capable of supplying 50 amp (0.5C) when I can get get one capable of 100 amps, then the word cycles were mentioned. Make sure the C rate and cycles match Edited May 25, 2022 by isetech Quote
Speedster Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 C rate is an important consideration, but becomes less so the bigger your battery bank becomes. If you've got 5kWh of battery the difference between 1C (5kW) and 0.5C(2.5kW) is pretty significant. If you have 10kWh of battery the difference is potentially less so. AFAIK with the sunsynk you can set a max discharge rate and it will pull the balance of usage in from the grid (if available). Also, C rate is mostly important when only runnng on battery as panels will take up the majority of the load during sunlight hours. Quote
Jaza Posted May 26, 2022 Posted May 26, 2022 Thanks for the great forum. I am also settled on the 8kW Sunsynk inverter. I am considering the 5.5kW Hubble and have been told that the 5.7kW Evo is effectively the same battery. To my knowledge, both have 1C rate and 10-year warranty. But I see very little in this forum (or any other) on the Evo. Hope it’s okay that I post here given similar questions. Any advice would be appreciated. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 26, 2022 Author Posted May 26, 2022 On 2022/05/25 at 11:32 AM, isetech said: An example a Sunsynk inverter can pull 100 amps, so using a 0.5C battery which can only produce 50 amp will require you to reduce the inverter capacity to only 50 amps. @isetechSo what you say is that I want to get an 8kw sunsynk inverter, the discharge rate is 190amps so then I would need to get 4 x 4.8kw pylon because it’s a 0.5c and it will allow me to discharge at 200amps to match the inverter On 2022/05/25 at 11:32 AM, isetech said: then the word cycles were mentioned. Make sure the C rate and cycles match Can you explain what you mean here? i also saw something somewhere which I obviously don’t understand but regarding the 8kw sunsynk inverter that 2 x 4.8kw is not enough because there is sometimes an error that occurs with low voltage. Does anyone know something about this? Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 26, 2022 Author Posted May 26, 2022 11 hours ago, Jaza said: Thanks for the great forum. I am also settled on the 8kW Sunsynk inverter. I am considering the 5.5kW Hubble and have been told that the 5.7kW Evo is effectively the same battery. To my knowledge, both have 1C rate and 10-year warranty. But I see very little in this forum (or any other) on the Evo. Hope it’s okay that I post here given similar questions. Any advice would be appreciated. Unfortunately I’m also new to this so I can’t help you at all Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 26, 2022 Author Posted May 26, 2022 On 2022/05/25 at 1:47 PM, Speedster said: C rate is an important consideration, but becomes less so the bigger your battery bank becomes. If you've got 5kWh of battery the difference between 1C (5kW) and 0.5C(2.5kW) is pretty significant. If you have 10kWh of battery the difference is potentially less so. AFAIK with the sunsynk you can set a max discharge rate and it will pull the balance of usage in from the grid (if available). Also, C rate is mostly important when only runnng on battery as panels will take up the majority of the load during sunlight hours. @Speedsterthanks for the info, I’m yet to start a new topic in inverters because I have so many questions about stuff like this Quote
Jaza Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 14 hours ago, Derek Ramos said: Unfortunately I’m also new to this so I can’t help you at all Thanks Derek. Sorry I’m new to how this forum works Quote
isetech Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) I have found that people get lost in the figures, KVA, kwh ratings, electricity account figures, etc and loose focus on the important stuff. The important stuff being the part that you understand your load requirements and time of use. If your electricity account is R10k and you install your whole roof full of panels and a small inverter with a battery suitable for the inverter, you going to be pretty screwed if you entertain in the evening and run heaters, a sauna/ jacuzzi or aircons etc, or have tons of security lights around the property, etc. Like the C rating and cycles of your battery, if you only use a small percentage of the total power of the inverter, because you want a long backup for your security system, then a 0.5C battery could be ideal which will also reduce the DOD adding years to your batteries, if you understand what it is you looking for, choosing the right equipment is simple. My point - focus more on the important stuff, then design a system around it. It's trying to find a person or company to take the time to understand your specific requirements and create long term solution becomes the biggest challenge. This industry has become a means to a quick buck for many due to the lack of understanding, I find it rather amusing when customers request I sit in on meeting with installers. "baffling people with bullshyte" comes to mind Edited May 28, 2022 by isetech GreenFields 1 Quote
FixAMess Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 14 hours ago, Derek Ramos said: So what you say is that I want to get an 8kw sunsynk inverter, the discharge rate is 190amps so then I would need to get 4 x 4.8kw pylon because it’s a 0.5c and it will allow me to discharge at 200amps to match the inverter Remember the battery is at 48V, if you want to pull a max of 200A from that battery you will have 190A X 48 V = 9120Watts....Your household breaker is probably the std +- 60A, so the max your home can / should draw is 60A X 230V = 13,800W.... Consider the loads you draw that you will ever need 9000W concurrently from your battery i.e mostly at loadshedding time? Turn on your tumble drier, kettle, microwave and hair drier and see what you draw. Will you ever be running all these concurrently during loadshedding? The point is, don't get too hung up on maxing out the system because it is rated to do so, a 1C battery is good if you only have a small battery bank (as mentioned previously) and dont let the 1C be the most NB aspect of buying a battery... All the LiPo4 batteries are similar technology, what sets them apart is price, support, quality of parts and most NB 1)the BMS quality and 2) the ability of the batteries to speak natively to the Inverter and 3) Support (questionable - if you buy tried and tested you don't need much support) Go read all the "battery problem" threads, they all follow the same pattern; clever dick buys battery X because he saves R2, or its's a 1C battery and he saves R2. He then finds he needs special software to speak to the battery because his crappy inverter (also saved R2) does not speak to the batteries as advertised, so he buys Y tool to do so (more cost). He then finds the SOC is never correct, and the BMS gives errors...and so on. In short, if you're the average guy, just go the toyota route and buy Sunsunk and Pylontechs...Simple, combination works, very reliable, well supported and there's plenty of forum support. We tend to overthink everything..... Nexuss, Robbo and Piper 3 Quote
Bernardf Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, FixAMess said: "Turn on your tumble drier, kettle, microwave and hair drier and see what you draw. Will you ever be running all these concurrently during loadshedding?" My wife seems to need all of those appliances exactly at load shedding time..... Derek Ramos, Piper, LDK and 2 others 5 Quote
P1000 Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 If price is not a consideration then Bluenova because LiFeYPO₄. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted June 1, 2022 Author Posted June 1, 2022 On 2022/05/27 at 5:20 PM, P1000 said: If price is not a consideration then Bluenova because LiFeYPO₄. @P1000Are there any other reasons why you would go for bluenova Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.