Good Day

If I receive a CoC for a very good job done (in my opinion, as everything is working and trust the guy), how will I know or can verify if I have received a valid CoC for insurance purposes? This is SA afterall?

Thanks in advance.

Take a copy of the CoC to your Insurance Company and ask them to verify if it is what they require. Then they can stamp your CoC as accepted

 

Edited April 1, 20232 yr by zsde

Insurance companies don't go around and verify CoCs. It is your own responsibility.

They might request that you have it in place when you claim

Check that the master electrician is Registered with the department of labor. He will have recorded his registration details etc. 

As far as I understand, COC's can only be issued online and in the case of a COC for a solar installation, will be issued as an amendment to the existing COC. I can only presume that a registered electrician will have access to the online system.

There is officially 1 Certificate of Compliance. When your house was built & established a Master electrician would have signed off & recorded how many plug points & lights etc your premises has. This is the initial inspection done. This is the main CoC document. When install a solar installation a supplement to the this CoC is made reference to & there is Red reference number on each CoC form. Each CoC form also has information pertaining to an initial New CoC or it's a Supplement. 

The master electricians will charge accordingly for a new CoC along the lines of R2.5k & for a supplement along the lines of R1.5k. 

Stands to reason you cannot issue a supplement if the original CoC is not in possession because which document number can be used for reference. 

So together with the initial & the supplement you have a comprehensive CoC document. 

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated!

Only a master electrician can issue a house COC.
To issue an electric fence COC the electrician needs to have done an extra exam.

Can any master electrician issue a solar COC or is he also required to do an extra course/exam?

COCs where normally filled in by hand on a pink (or was it green) form.  So @Peter V it sounds as if the system changed.  Has the content of the COC changed as well, or has the form just moved into the digital domain?  It would be good if someone could post a copy of this COC "solar supplement" so that people still on their way of getting their own solar system could view the technical aspects that need to be signed off.

I also have questions around SANS.  What document (number) covers single phase residential wiring?  Is only one document required, or are there multiple documents?  For instance, does it cover DC and low voltage DC regulations as well, or would one find that in a separate document?

Finally, what would it cost to obtain the required document(s)?

It's a yellow form with a red ticket reference number. Yes only a master electrician can carry out the inspection report. What is the CoC for exactly? Well it's for the AC side of the installation. This is why so many electricians are so nervous to sign off on solar systems. I can already tell you that the most fire hazard part is the DC side especially the PV side of the installation. In the case of the Sunsynk Inverters the string Voltage can range anywhere from 300V DC to 700V DC. 

That is why the master electrician need to get up to speed quickly with DC side of things. I have seen this shortcoming when seeing the work of a purely electrician solar installation. You end up finding ferrule & Insulation tape connections on roofs exposed to the elements like rain & heat. 

The AC switch gear has a lot more protection & is more forgiving. The DC side given the chance can create massive arcs & because of the high voltage nature of the modern inverter it can create a lot of sparking & usually they are close to roof structural timber etc so you can see the fuel is there it just requires the right time to make it all happen. 

It is with this in mind that the PV Green card & the AREP P4 solar courses are of good intention to try to communicate & inform of the hazards & respect one must show to the DC side of things. That is why with all the demand of red tape of the Cape town registration process & hoops to jump through, I think it makes your home that little bit safer. Doesn't guarantee safety but tries to weed out ppl not qualified to tackle the task. 

 

@Steve87 Yes I agree with you.  So if I understand you correctly, there is no extra training requirement for a master electrician to legally issue solar installation COCs?  Just a reluctance of some to do so?

No specific training, because if you look at the form it only articulates details on the AC side of the installation. Measurements are taken from the Neutral to Earth in terms of Voltage & some earth leakage testing takes place. However, you will not find a single detail on PV Array size, voltage, number of strings.  So you can see why so many master electricians are very reluctant. Some reluctant because they actually don't know what they are signing off & herein lies the massive safety gap. 

So I am an installer that needs an installation Inspection & the master electrician is signing me off on aspects he does not have an education on. Really depends if he has taken the time to explore the solar world & gen himself up. So you can see what a very messed up situation this really is in the world of installations. 

The Sunsynk in Island mode without a Relay bond between Neutral & earth has a earth leakage that does not function on the load side. How many large installations have we seen here that look very good nice channelling & neat job but the total absence of this relay. The question is why? The poor inspector has absolutely no idea of the world of a Sunsynk. Please don't get me wrong a lot of them are very clued up & carry out Installations themselves. But there is a large portion of them that are not. 

So yes get the CoC but being a member of this forum there is more than enough resources here to make you aware of the shortcomings. 

Get the CoC for the insurance, but your home's safety remains your responsibility. 

So when a wiring diagram is requested & a form to be filled out in Cape Town I honestly think at least there is a record of what has been installed & what was planned. Better than the mess you find in so many homes. 

Edited April 2, 20232 yr by Steve87

An installation I'm helping get properly completed was done by a master electrician that will issue the COC. He cut all of the MC4 connectors off the 16 panels and used ferrules and insulation tape. Cable and joints are lying in unistrut which fill with water when it rains, no conduit. Earthing is only on four points on the unistrut of the four strings. No panels have earth connected to them directly. Flat concrete roof. A PrEng contracted them and will sign off but hasn't bothered to climb onto the roof to inspect. The homeowner is unable to climb onto the the roof and they know this. 

Edited April 2, 20232 yr by Mako
Add info.

@MakoThat's nothing.  A few years ago I sold a house in Pretoria and the electrician that came to do the COC didn't even have a multimeter.  But I got my COC.

@Makoa very honest account of the current state of affairs. No regulation whatsoever. Ignorance is one thing but if someone is paying for a service at least get gened up on the subject matter. Pride in the workplace is like common sense. It's not common & it's subjective.

Edited April 2, 20232 yr by Steve87

2 hours ago, Modina said:

@MakoThat's nothing.  A few years ago I sold a house in Pretoria and the electrician that came to do the COC didn't even have a multimeter.  But I got my COC.

We need to ask @Energy-Jason nicely for a facepalm / WTF emoji that members can only use once every six months (so that it won't be abused on rubbish).  

Attached information on COC'S. Master electrician and installation electrician can issue COC'S if registered with deparment of Labour. 

https://ecasa.co.za/member-support/understanding-the-new-electrical-certificate-of-compliance/

https://ecb.org.za/coc/electricians/

On 2023/04/01 at 6:06 PM, Longbow2000 said:

Good Day

If I receive a CoC for a very good job done (in my opinion, as everything is working and trust the guy), how will I know or can verify if I have received a valid CoC for insurance purposes? This is SA afterall?

Thanks in advance.

Insurers won't try to validate the COC unless there's a claim. Then they will send a loss adjuster who will try his best to find fault with it. 

I'm tempted to say that you can contact the ECB if you have concerns, but I've done that, and whilst they took action against the electrician (they say), they didn't send anybody around to inspect, nor did they tell him to make good at his expense. So that doesn't really help you.

You might get another electrician to repeat the certification process, but he won't be disinterested. 

Really us laypersons are the mercy of tradesmen. I don't say that they are all negligent or plain crooked, but some are. And we don't really have anyway of knowing if they've done what they say they have done or if they have done it properly.

Take the COC, send it to your insurer. Despite everything I've said, this is the wisest cause of action. If you put in a claim and the loss adjuster finds that what is in your house doesn't match the most recent COC provided, they will rule that you were not open with them and then all bets will be off.

I am informed in this regard by own broker who asked for a COC when he took on my business, and then, when I discussed a PV installation with him, requested an updated COC.

 

So from the above information a lay person can only just double check COC for general correctness

Correct serial no and inverter model , no of panels , etc

19 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

We need to ask @Energy-Jason nicely for a facepalm / WTF emoji that members can only use once every six months (so that it won't be abused on rubbish).  

Haha. How about a certain GIF of your choosing? 

5 hours ago, Energy-Jason said:

Haha. How about a certain GIF of your choosing? 

I see that we already do have one 🤦‍♂️ but it isn't available as a reaction.

A triple facepalm would be nice...

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by YellowTapemeasure

Hi All,

 

I know the above was done last year, but just a little bit knowledge

On some of the comments above, a registered installation electrician as well as a master installation electrician can sign of COC's on a solar installation. Both are allowed to work on DC circuits.

A registered single phase installation electrician may not work on 3 phase, as well as not allowed to work on DC circuits, therefore they may not work on solar as there is the DC component.

 

Difference between Master and Installation electrician is the master may work on electrical equipment in hazardous areas, e.g. flammable gases or dust may be present as this requires specialised electrical equipment (flameproof or explosion proof) and an installation (or 3 phase) electrician may not.

 

Hope this helps to clarify some points.

1 hour ago, Peter999 said:

A registered single phase installation electrician may not work on 3 phase, as well as not allowed to work on DC circuits, therefore they may not work on solar as there is the DC component.

An Installation Electrician or Master Installation Electrician is authorized to issue a certificate of compliance (COC) for a solar system.

The Occupational Health and Safety Act of 1993, under OHS 3/1/5/7/9, recognizes three categories of electricians in South Africa:

1. Single Phase Electricians (ETSP);

2. Installation Electricians (IE);

3. Master Installation Electricians (MIE).

An ETSP is only permitted to install a solar system under the direct supervision of a licensed IE or MIE with a valid wireman’s license. Furthermore, an ETSP cannot issue a compliance certificate for a solar installation unless they have passed the trade test and completed the required training for inspecting, testing, and certifying single-phase domestic installations. It’s important to note that, even after completing these requirements, an ETSP can only issue a compliance certificate for a single-phase solar system.

Both IE and MIE are authorized to install solar systems and issue compliance certificates for them. Additionally, they oversee ETSPs, ensuring that solar installations are completed in line with the relevant electrical and SANS standards.

A solar system that is installed by an unregistered electrician is considered "illegal."

How can one verify an electrician's qualifications? To be a Registered Electrical Contractor, an electrician must be registered with the Department of Labour and the Bargaining Council for the Electrical Industry. Therefore, it is recommended that you request the electrician’s registration certificate or card before hiring them. This document will indicate the electrician's registration level and confirm whether they are qualified to install a solar system or both install and issue a compliance certificate.