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Sunsynk 5kW - Charge from PV by day and discharge from batteries by night


Ant Seiderer

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On 2021/07/13 at 9:40 AM, RhysMcW said:

@Gareth_ZA - please also post a photo of your Flow Chart screen and also the screen with the 6 blocks showing the various values

Morning, after last weeks unrest the technician is able to come out tomorrow to find a solution to stop my prepaid meter from deducting credits when I export power to my non-essential (grid) circuit.

If we cannot resolve that, then I may resort to moving the geyser onto the inverter essential circuit.

The geyser has a timer, so I can at least determine when I want it to come on and off, and in that way could use surplus solar to cover that load.

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34 minutes ago, Gareth_ZA said:

Morning, after last weeks unrest the technician is able to come out tomorrow to find a solution to stop my prepaid meter from deducting credits when I export power to my non-essential (grid) circuit.

If we cannot resolve that, then I may resort to moving the geyser onto the inverter essential circuit.

The geyser has a timer, so I can at least determine when I want it to come on and off, and in that way could use surplus solar to cover that load.

the pre-paid meter would only charge for pushing back if the inverter is pushing back and the interter would only push back it was configured to do so, or possibly outdated firmware...

  1. what firmware is your inverter running?
  2. is the CT coil installed and working correctly? - post pics of the flow chart and the 6 block displays
  3. post a pic of your system mode settings (timers, zero export etc display)
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2 hours ago, RhysMcW said:

the pre-paid meter would only charge for pushing back if the inverter is pushing back and the interter would only push back it was configured to do so, or possibly outdated firmware...

  1. what firmware is your inverter running?
  2. is the CT coil installed and working correctly? - post pics of the flow chart and the 6 block displays
  3. post a pic of your system mode settings (timers, zero export etc display)

Unless someone jippo'd the prepaid meter and connected the essential loads before the meter.

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On 2021/07/21 at 10:30 AM, RhysMcW said:

the pre-paid meter would only charge for pushing back if the inverter is pushing back and the interter would only push back it was configured to do so, or possibly outdated firmware...

  1. what firmware is your inverter running?
  2. is the CT coil installed and working correctly? - post pics of the flow chart and the 6 block displays
  3. post a pic of your system mode settings (timers, zero export etc display)

Hi there

All of this is fine, the inverter was setup to export solar --- I have since stopped that during the first week of operations once I noticed the prepaid meter was decreasing in credits.

To your questions:
1) latest version : ver e419 
2) yes
3) all fine there

To summarize:
- My Prepaid meter is programmed to treat all flow as "paid" grid flow,
- Inverter was setup to export, now I have turned that off until the below is done.

- Long term solution We have started the process to apply for a bi-directional flow meter, which may just involve reprogramming the utility side meter at the fence.
- Short term solution: We will also be connecting the geyser (& its timer) to the essential circuit so that it can benefit from solar energy --- and by using the schedule, have it heat up water early in the morning either from batteries or grid depending on battery level.

- Once the bidirectional meter is installed, then I may return the geyer to the other circuit (grid) --- but will see later at that stage.

Thanks

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4 hours ago, Gareth_ZA said:

Hi there

All of this is fine, the inverter was setup to export solar --- I have since stopped that during the first week of operations once I noticed the prepaid meter was decreasing in credits.

To your questions:
1) latest version : ver e419 
2) yes
3) all fine there

To summarize:
- My Prepaid meter is programmed to treat all flow as "paid" grid flow,
- Inverter was setup to export, now I have turned that off until the below is done.

- Long term solution We have started the process to apply for a bi-directional flow meter, which may just involve reprogramming the utility side meter at the fence.
- Short term solution: We will also be connecting the geyser (& its timer) to the essential circuit so that it can benefit from solar energy --- and by using the schedule, have it heat up water early in the morning either from batteries or grid depending on battery level.

- Once the bidirectional meter is installed, then I may return the geyer to the other circuit (grid) --- but will see later at that stage.

Thanks

If the CT is installed and working correctly, there is no need to move the geyser to the essential side. The CT will pick up any current going back to the grid and throttle the inverter. 

In the system work mode you should set a tick in zero export and unticked limit to load. The CT will then not allow the inverter to feed any power to the prepaid meter. 

Maybe I'm just not getting why your inverter is sending power back to the prepaid meter if the CT is working and installed correctly. 

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11 hours ago, Gareth_ZA said:

Short term solution: We will also be connecting the geyser (& its timer) to the essential circuit so that it can benefit from solar energy --- and by using the schedule, have it heat up water early in the morning either from batteries or grid depending on battery level.

Hi Gareth

The geyser does not need to be on the essential circuit to benefit from solar energy. The Sunsynk uses solar energy for both essential and non essential loads. The only time it won’t do this is if “Limit to load” is ticked. 
 

How far is your CT from your inverter? Maybe post pics of your installation showing where your CT is placed and also the inverter flow diagram. 

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7 hours ago, Leshen said:

Hi Gareth

The geyser does not need to be on the essential circuit to benefit from solar energy. The Sunsynk uses solar energy for both essential and non essential loads. The only time it won’t do this is if “Limit to load” is ticked. 
 

How far is your CT from your inverter? Maybe post pics of your installation showing where your CT is placed and also the inverter flow diagram. 

Morning Leshen

I've spokem to the technician, the issue is not the installation --- but the prepaid meter, which is picking up current flowing back to the street. The CT is on the correct wire according to him. For me I can only see it measuring the power that the inverter is drawing from the grid to supply essentials.

As per the sunsynk flowchart the coil is sittin on the grid wire.

As I have mentioned previously, the CT coil is measuring accurately how much power I am purchasing to supplement my essential load, and I am in the process of getting a bi-directional meter for the house. This will stop the prepaid meter from charging me when export solar energy. Point is that I know that the inverter has been exporting power, and I can see the meter charging me for it --- even if I am using or not using it. I the next week I am getting the geyser (&timer) wired to the essential circuit so that I can make use of the solar energy in the interim.

QUESTION : Where is the CT meant to be connected to ?  On the ..
a) TOTAL GRID WIRE (ie. main input before any DB's) ? OR
b) the ESSENTIALS GRID WIRE (which the inverter uses to buy power) ? OR
c) the NON-ESSENTIALS GRID WIRE ?

QUESITON : Is the sunsynk flow chart correct?

 

TEST A
Basic Conditions: zero export with 10w trickle flow. Batteries are still charging.
- Test 1 (Photo 1) : I have no loads on the Non-Essential circuit, and lights on essentials
- Test 2 (Photo 2) : I have the 3kw geyser on the Non-Essential circuit, and lights on essentials
From this test I can tell that the Inverter cannot measure the load on the non-essential circuit.
And from previous tests, I can tell that the inverter can measure the loads on the essential circuit.

 

Thanks

 


image.png.d966428e043c82e2fc1a0aa2670a0c30.png

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image.png.d8a806321445f82a131d0a0faff13644.png
 

image.png.feda6cd5bcfc4115f19055ee8bd752ee.png

 

image.png.5b14ea27d9b09bddd97ff8424838a6c8.png

image.png.5edd850e70f1b98a17aafd2a42492bb4.png

image.png.4086ecf8491a7786ce5b85c8ed985d02.png 

 

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15 hours ago, Achmat said:

If the CT is installed and working correctly, there is no need to move the geyser to the essential side. The CT will pick up any current going back to the grid and throttle the inverter. 

In the system work mode you should set a tick in zero export and unticked limit to load. The CT will then not allow the inverter to feed any power to the prepaid meter. 

Maybe I'm just not getting why your inverter is sending power back to the prepaid meter if the CT is working and installed correctly. 

Please see my reply above, I think you might be onto something as I suspect that my inverter cannot see the load on the essential circuit, so it does not know how/when to limit that export based on load.. but please check above

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34 minutes ago, Gareth_ZA said:

Morning Leshen

I've spokem to the technician, the issue is not the installation --- but the prepaid meter, which is picking up current flowing back to the street. The CT is on the correct wire according to him. For me I can only see it measuring the power that the inverter is drawing from the grid to supply essentials.

As per the sunsynk flowchart the coil is sittin on the grid wire.

As I have mentioned previously, the CT coil is measuring accurately how much power I am purchasing to supplement my essential load, and I am in the process of getting a bi-directional meter for the house. This will stop the prepaid meter from charging me when export solar energy. Point is that I know that the inverter has been exporting power, and I can see the meter charging me for it --- even if I am using or not using it. I the next week I am getting the geyser (&timer) wired to the essential circuit so that I can make use of the solar energy in the interim.

QUESTION : Where is the CT meant to be connected to ?  On the ..
a) TOTAL GRID WIRE (ie. main input before any DB's) ? OR
b) the ESSENTIALS GRID WIRE (which the inverter uses to buy power) ? OR
c) the NON-ESSENTIALS GRID WIRE ?

QUESITON : Is the sunsynk flow chart correct?

 

TEST A
Basic Conditions: zero export with 10w trickle flow. Batteries are still charging.
- Test 1 (Photo 1) : I have no loads on the Non-Essential circuit, and lights on essentials
- Test 2 (Photo 2) : I have the 3kw geyser on the Non-Essential circuit, and lights on essentials
From this test I can tell that the Inverter cannot measure the load on the non-essential circuit.
And from previous tests, I can tell that the inverter can measure the loads on the essential circuit.

 

Thanks

 


image.png.d966428e043c82e2fc1a0aa2670a0c30.png

image.png.a326bf43454dff54956734258135b134.png

image.png.d8a806321445f82a131d0a0faff13644.png
 

image.png.feda6cd5bcfc4115f19055ee8bd752ee.png

 

image.png.5b14ea27d9b09bddd97ff8424838a6c8.png

image.png.5edd850e70f1b98a17aafd2a42492bb4.png

image.png.4086ecf8491a7786ce5b85c8ed985d02.png 

 

Give me your number and I’ll call you. 

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21 minutes ago, Gareth_ZA said:

TEST A
Basic Conditions: zero export with 10w trickle flow. Batteries are still charging.
- Test 1 (Photo 1) : I have no loads on the Non-Essential circuit, and lights on essentials
- Test 2 (Photo 2) : I have the 3kw geyser on the Non-Essential circuit, and lights on essentials
From this test I can tell that the Inverter cannot measure the load on the non-essential circuit.
And from previous tests, I can tell that the inverter can measure the loads on the essential circuit.

that looks like the CT is not in the correct location.
Your flow diagram, showing the locations of grid, switch over etc, shows the switch over before both the non-essential and essential load DBs, thereby implying that either the grid or the inverter would supply to both DBs, thereby making both DBs essential load if change over is on inverter feed or both DBs non-essential if change over is on grid feed.

My setup has the grid in to the non-essential DB then on to a change over switch at the essential load DB so I can switch the essential load DB to get power from either the inverter or the grid.

116389545_InverterwiringdiagramwithCT.png.f8552fd6e53da0029dbb4987e9a01e84.png

The CT needs to be on the live wire between the grid and the non-essential load DB, thereby measuring all current drawn from the grid.

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32 minutes ago, RhysMcW said:

that looks like the CT is not in the correct location.
Your flow diagram, showing the locations of grid, switch over etc, shows the switch over before both the non-essential and essential load DBs, thereby implying that either the grid or the inverter would supply to both DBs, thereby making both DBs essential load if change over is on inverter feed or both DBs non-essential if change over is on grid feed.

My setup has the grid in to the non-essential DB then on to a change over switch at the essential load DB so I can switch the essential load DB to get power from either the inverter or the grid.

116389545_InverterwiringdiagramwithCT.png.f8552fd6e53da0029dbb4987e9a01e84.png

The CT needs to be on the live wire between the grid and the non-essential load DB, thereby measuring all current drawn from the grid.

There definitely is an issue somewhere as the 3kw geyser load isn’t showing on the flow diagram

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42 minutes ago, RhysMcW said:

that looks like the CT is not in the correct location.
Your flow diagram, showing the locations of grid, switch over etc, shows the switch over before both the non-essential and essential load DBs, thereby implying that either the grid or the inverter would supply to both DBs, thereby making both DBs essential load if change over is on inverter feed or both DBs non-essential if change over is on grid feed.

My setup has the grid in to the non-essential DB then on to a change over switch at the essential load DB so I can switch the essential load DB to get power from either the inverter or the grid.

116389545_InverterwiringdiagramwithCT.png.f8552fd6e53da0029dbb4987e9a01e84.png

The CT needs to be on the live wire between the grid and the non-essential load DB, thereby measuring all current drawn from the grid.

I am going to ask the technician to draw a flow diagram for me, I think your concerns have merit.
Point being that my inverter had no visibility when I was running my geyser. If my CT coil was placed as per your flowchart, then I should have seen a 3kw draw I believe.

I am escalating to the technician as I think they have wired this thing incorrectly.

Edited by Gareth_ZA
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7 minutes ago, Gareth_ZA said:

I am going to ask the technician to draw a flow diagram for me, I think your concerns have merit.
Point being that my inverter had no visibility when I was running my geyser. If my CT coil was placed as per your flowchart, then I should have seen a 3kw draw I believe.

I am escalating to the technician as I think they have wired this thing incorrectly.

That’s correct. The Sunsynks work fine if installed correctly so I can only imagine that this is an installation issue. 

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21 hours ago, Gareth_ZA said:

I am going to ask the technician to draw a flow diagram for me, I think your concerns have merit.
Point being that my inverter had no visibility when I was running my geyser. If my CT coil was placed as per your flowchart, then I should have seen a 3kw draw I believe.

I am escalating to the technician as I think they have wired this thing incorrectly.

Is it a sunsynk technician or your installer? 

There are a number of posts on this forum where installers have no idea how to correctly install the sunsynk and especially where to place the CT coil. 

The CT coil need to be installed immediately after the prepaid meter on the live wire. If its on the live wire before the inverter then it's only picking up the loads on the inverter. 

It's a simple fix and I would do this before going through the process of installing a bidirectional meter. Depending on where the prepaid meter is and where the CT is currently installed, it should take less than 5 minutes. 

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49 minutes ago, Leshen said:

Please make sure that there is no load on the inverter before removing the CT and reinstalling. 

@LeshenAn installer. 

@Achmat , @RhysMcW

I am reading the Sunsynk training manual and it agrees to the flowchart shared with us all above by @RhysMcW. Ie CT coil on the live cable on the main fuse feeding the building, 

Im now 100% certain they've done it wrong despite what they are saying to reassure me. 

Its simple for me as I am holding back the last 20% payment until its done correctly. 

I am sure they will relocate the CT coil and we can retest 

Edited by Gareth_ZA
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, I am a newbee here. Please tell me if I transgress somewhere, it will be a matter of stupidity.

I started up my system 3 days ago. I did the installation etc myself. (Probability of getting it wrong is definately there.)

Seems to work as intended,

Sunsynk 5kW 1 Phase

8 x 400 W panels in one string on one MPPT for now.

No batteries for now. (No batteries ticked in setup.)

Very simple connection currently. Supply from Escom, then CT, arrow with flow, tee off to the earth leakage supplying the whole lot, then carry on to supply the invertor. Full stop. No loads on the other side. Ct wires into connection block on ports 2 (White wire +) & 3 (Black wire -) as per manual.

Day before yesterday it produced 16 kW

Metering does not quite add up.

Suspect something with CT and need some pointers please  !!!!

It is dark already, so no power from the panels. I measure 7 A with a hand clamp meter right next to the inverter ct. The display on the inverter alternates between 0 and 0.6 A.

How do I fix this ??

I have tried to turn the ct arround, no difference, then swopped the ct wires around, no difference. then uncoiled the ct wire ball, no difference.

Any suggestions please ???

Pieter

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Hi @Eksteen

Welcome to the forum, there's plenty great information around...

I'm not entirely sure how the inverter will/won't work with no batteries and no essential load but I guess it should still be able to feed back to the non-essential loads with the PV produced, if setup correctly...

  1. what firmware is your inverter running?
  2. post pics of the flow chart and the 6 block displays
  3. post a pic of your system mode settings (timers, zero export etc display) or if you're on v419 then the Workmode 2 screen
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...
On 2021/06/18 at 6:29 PM, Nexuss said:

Ok cool thats exactly about what i have in regards to PV and directions on roof.  that second sentence is interesting , why would you not just put those loads on the non essential side ? or am n missing something ? i dont think you quite fully understand how this inverter works yet , you will soon though it takes a while haha. took me a few months to realize some of my settings were causing me to not save as much on power as i could have .

Could you explain what you mean by "put those loads on the non essential side".  How would that be done? 

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1 hour ago, dragoon said:

Could you explain what you mean by "put those loads on the non essential side".  How would that be done? 

The non essential loads are before the inverter so they are not coming through the UPS . The Grid/non essentials connection on the inverter is an input /output controlled via CT coil on the main incoming ESKOM red conductor. Check out the Sunsynk training videos on youtube as Keith explains it all quite well there.

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  • 5 months later...

Can the Sunsynk be programmed to start at night with 100% Battery power and only use the batteries if the grid is NOT available, for example, during load shedding. What worries me, sometimes at night, the Batteries start with 84% and when load shedding start at 20:00 or 22:00, I stress because the batteries drop below 50%. 

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