October 24, 20214 yr Just sold my house and the buyer has made a side offer on my solar equipment. So I need to do this again, and want to try to make more educated decisions. Current setup is whole house on a 5kVa Axpert with the jacuzzi on a changeover switch so it can be on grid if needed. This inverter size is adequate for us but I'd look at 6 or even 8kVa 3.6kW of solar in East/West configuration. It's enough for 8 months of the year but I definitely want more next time. The current inverter is already over panelled. New house has a lot of trees so looking at quite a short solar day 2 times 3.5kWH Pylontech (US3000B) I like them, but I want about 1/3 more capacity next time. So maybe 3, or a 9.6 or similar from another manufacturer. I'm using ICC on a Pi to control it. I see newer inverters seem to talk to apps directly but I don't know if there's enough functionality? Would like it to talk to my smart switches to do switching on SOC, etc. What would you guys recommend next time around? I pretty much only know the stuff I have
October 24, 20214 yr You can read about that how to plan a system here, if you have some time. I am sure many on here will chime in with suggestions.🥸
October 24, 20214 yr Whatever you do, next time go with a SunSynk inverter. More flexible options 😊 Edited October 24, 20214 yr by PowerUser
October 24, 20214 yr 8 hours ago, Hagu13 said: Just sold my house and the buyer has made a side offer on my solar equipment. So I need to do this again, and want to try to make more educated decisions. Current setup is whole house on a 5kVa Axpert with the jacuzzi on a changeover switch so it can be on grid if needed. This inverter size is adequate for us but I'd look at 6 or even 8kVa 3.6kW of solar in East/West configuration. It's enough for 8 months of the year but I definitely want more next time. The current inverter is already over panelled. New house has a lot of trees so looking at quite a short solar day 2 times 3.5kWH Pylontech (US3000B) I like them, but I want about 1/3 more capacity next time. So maybe 3, or a 9.6 or similar from another manufacturer. I'm using ICC on a Pi to control it. I see newer inverters seem to talk to apps directly but I don't know if there's enough functionality? Would like it to talk to my smart switches to do switching on SOC, etc. What would you guys recommend next time around? I pretty much only know the stuff I have You are in a better position to know exactly what works and what will not work for you. Look at your old installation and improve on what was lacking. The best educated decision you can make, will be one that is based on practical experience. You have already Identified the need for more panels and extra storage, go for that and good choice on Pylontechs, my favorite 😁 If money is not a determining factor, go for 8KW Sunsynk or 8Kw Deye. If You have budget constraints, go for two 5Kw Growatt SPF5000ES, then you will have 10Kw to play around with. For solar panels, I would go for the high power ones, 535w or 540w like the ones on the following links https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/solar-panels/products/copy-of-solar-panel-ja-solar-490w-mono-perc-half-cell-mbb-silver-frame https://www.inverter-warehouse.co.za/products/jinko-solar-panel-tiger-535w-mono-facial You want to have as much juice as possible to quickly charge your large storage, because of the short day of solar. And still be able to run the house 😀 Edited October 24, 20214 yr by hoohloc
October 24, 20214 yr One thing to remember is the maximum passthrough power on the Sunsynk 5kw is 35A i.e. 7700Watts So if you go over 7.7kw in your house combined Eskom/Battery/Solar the power will trips Pass thru on the 8kw inverter is +- 12kw so gives you a bit more room.
October 24, 20214 yr 20 minutes ago, Sc00bs said: One thing to remember is the maximum passthrough power on the Sunsynk 5kw is 35A i.e. 7700Watts So if you go over 7.7kw in your house combined Eskom/Battery/Solar the power will trips Pass thru on the 8kw inverter is +- 12kw so gives you a bit more room. That’s only true, if you have everything on the load side of the inverter. However, with SunSynk you have more options and it’s not necessary to be connected like an off grid inverter.
October 24, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, 87 Dream said: Let me disrupt the suggestions. You already had an Axpert 5kW which was a known quantity, hell, your new home buyer even wants to buy if off you. Probably you would agree it was value for money. There is an 8kW MAX version available now as well as the new to market MAXll 10kW version. @hoohlocis spot on, you know your requirements perfectly. The 10kW version will have zero limitations especially if your new home is Single Phase. If you are financing your new home, then it's also a great opportunity to extend that finance to your home solar system. 87 The MAX II 8 and 10kw are not bidirectional inverters, if I’m not mistaken. So, much less flexible installation options with them besides the others disadvantages. So, your suggestion is not even a mere disturbance against a very solid SunSynk product.
October 24, 20214 yr I agree that deye makes great inverters but we have a few members already running dual axperts or axpert type hybrids like the growatt spf5000es giving them 10kw peak power so it makes sense that there is a market for a 10kw axpert. The price point that axperts, growatt and luxpowertec come at is very attractive for what you get especially when you don't need the fancy grid tied features. I would check what your essential/backed up power is before bashing a 10kw axpert. I know that with my entire house on my offgrid inverter I can power everything. If there is no grid for days can you power your stove and geyser? Edited October 24, 20214 yr by Buyeye
October 24, 20214 yr I can only recommend what I know works well for myself. What I have is a SunSync 8.8 Kw inverter with 2x Hubble AM-2 5.5 Kw batteries, and just over 4 Kw of CanadianSolar panels. My aim is to build up to 13.6 Kw of panels over time. I have decided to put the entire house on essential for now. In the future I might change that, but I have tested loads of +- 8.2 Kw, and no problems. If you split your loads to essential and non-essential, of course you can put huge unimportant loads on non-essential, and power them with your solar during the day, and save a fortune in electricity bills, but during load-shedding or Eskom power failures, these non-essential loads will be off. Just as an example, today was a cold wet rainy day, not much solar generation, and at 16H00, load-shedding kicked in. The tumble dryer was running, the geyser was switched on and heating, and the usual house load was been drawn. The load was 6.4 Kw, and the inverter didn't bother, but kept on ticking. The two Hubble batteries together can supply 11 Kw of power, so they just idled along, no problems with voiding battery warranties. Oh, and by the way, I did switch the geyser off afterwards (don't like wasting battery power unnecessarily), but but let the tumble dryer complete its run. I'm extremely happy with my system, and hope whatever you choose, will suit your needs, and put a smile on your face.
October 25, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, Buyeye said: I agree that deye makes great inverters but we have a few members already running dual axperts or axpert type hybrids like the growatt spf5000es giving them 10kw peak power so it makes sense that there is a market for a 10kw axpert. The price point that axperts, growatt and luxpowertec come at is very attractive for what you get especially when you don't need the fancy grid tied features. I would check what your essential/backed up power is before bashing a 10kw axpert. I know that with my entire house on my offgrid inverter I can power everything. If there is no grid for days can you power your stove and geyser? My understanding, and suspect that I could be mistaken in some cases, is that the main difference between the Sunsynk inverters and the Axpert/Growatt inverters is the blending of power on the inverter. Sunsynk Inverter can blend solar/battery/Eskom power. For example, if you have a 6kw load and 4kw of solar power then the Sunsynk will pull 2kw from Eskom/battery to make up the difference (depending on inverter settings obviously). The Axpert cannot blend, so it has to be 6kw from either Solar/Battery/Eskom and it switches between those options Sounds like some models may be able to blend, maybe someone who knows the Axperts better than me can clarify? @BuyeyeWhilst you are 100% correct that there is a cost benefit to purchasing an Axpert/Growatt system and there is definitely a use case for the Axpert inverters, especially in off-grid applications. In my opinion, as a percentage of the overall cost of an installed system the difference is relatively small between a Sunsynk and Axpert system and the benefits on a grid attached system are worth the relatively small increase in overall price.
October 25, 20214 yr On 2021/10/24 at 9:43 AM, Hagu13 said: Just sold my house and the buyer has made a side offer on my solar equipment. So I need to do this again, and want to try to make more educated decisions. Current setup is whole house on a 5kVa Axpert with the jacuzzi on a changeover switch so it can be on grid if needed. This inverter size is adequate for us but I'd look at 6 or even 8kVa 3.6kW of solar in East/West configuration. It's enough for 8 months of the year but I definitely want more next time. The current inverter is already over panelled. New house has a lot of trees so looking at quite a short solar day 2 times 3.5kWH Pylontech (US3000B) I like them, but I want about 1/3 more capacity next time. So maybe 3, or a 9.6 or similar from another manufacturer. I'm using ICC on a Pi to control it. I see newer inverters seem to talk to apps directly but I don't know if there's enough functionality? Would like it to talk to my smart switches to do switching on SOC, etc. What would you guys recommend next time around? I pretty much only know the stuff I have Unfortunately this thread will become a "mine is better than yours" argument.. Consider the following criteria; 1) Price/Cost 2) Ease of use 3) Support availability, warranty, local, forum help 4) Ease of Installation, reduction in series vs parallel panels Anything else? If you look at all the above then you'd be hard pressed to beat Sunsync with Victron functionality but at a much lower price point. As for batteries, and since you are happy with the Pylontechs I would go the same UNLESS you want 1C discharge rates.
October 25, 20214 yr Author THanks all Plenty to research now but please keep the suggestions rolling in as 87 Dream put it, I don't want to make a less than optimal decision out of ignorance. I could slap in a new Axpert which has bigger MPPT than my existing one and some extra panels and 3 Pylons this time and I'll be ok. But there's scope to do better things and functionality I haven't even considered, so this is all great at targeting my reading from here.
October 25, 20214 yr Author OK after reading Sarel's thread and the other comments I think I should have given more info Although the new system will be at a new house it's the same family so a lot will be the same. We're light on juice. We consume about 300kWh per month total. More in summer as we pump water for irrigation and sometimes use AC. But there's always excess generation for this. Water heating is solar supplemented by gas, cooking is gas, space heating with wood. New appliances selected for energy efficiency, LED lighting, etc. We don't select essential or non essential loads. The jacuzzi is on a changeover switch so we have the ability to run it direct from grid when we want to run the 4kW element. The daily filter cycle is run on the solar though. The whole house is on the 5kVa Axpert. We typically don't have throughput issues and we're used to shifting loads around, but more size here would mean less management of the females in the house which can be akin to herding cats at times We have a grid connection, don't want to backfeed, just want reliable electricity and low bills. We get the battery full around lunch time for 8 months of the year so beyond the point of diminishing ROI with more panels. But I'm not dead against more and would like the capacity for it in case I get bored or have money burning a hole in my pocket. We run on batteries at night and usually make it, except in winter when we're not getting them to 100% before sunset, or when the girls insist on doing an oven cooked supper after the sun has gone. 50% more battery would resolve those issues. So I really have enough but more would make things go a little smoother and require less tweaking and management. From that perspective as well I have one of those dinosaur Axperts and needed to buy a RPi and ICC to make it less dumb and more Pylontech compatible. Where are we on the newer inverters in this regard? Do I still need the same add on or can the inverters talk to apps and IOT devices directly?
October 25, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Hagu13 said: We typically don't have throughput issues and we're used to shifting loads around, but more size here would mean less management of the females in the house which can be akin to herding cats at times I feel your pain "What do you mean I can't put the dishwasher on when the sun isn't up yet!!"
October 25, 20214 yr Most new inverters comes with a wifi dongle and you can monitor everything via an app but the apps can't switch loads on and off yet.
October 25, 20214 yr Author 22 minutes ago, Sc00bs said: I feel your pain "What do you mean I can't put the dishwasher on when the sun isn't up yet!!" It's more like when the oven is fired up at 6pm after the panels have been idling for 6 hours: "I've been working all day, and I don't want to stand in front of the stove. So do you want supper or not?" And I have 2 adult women here who gang up on me.
October 25, 20214 yr Sunsynk inverters blend power so they can supplement from the grid if the load is to high.
October 25, 20214 yr Author 1 hour ago, 87 Dream said: Hagu13, you are a customer coming from an already stable humble 5kW Axpert. Your needs sound like you need a little more Punch for your home so that as you say your loads don't have to be so smartly thought out. Given that you are very familiar with the Axpert & the old dinosaur served you so well. You have just described the 7.2kW Axpert MAX. It's a bigger unit than your old Dinosaur & gives you that 2.2kW breathing space you are seeking. Give that it's Retail is at +-R15k & it can accept 8kW of solar panels using 2 MPPTs. I think by the time you get bored you can play & add more panels. My suggestion to you would be to get this inverter because it's a known entity & because when you hook it up to the ICC or even the Solar Assistant with Rpi you will be able to make it smart, see & track data & remotely control the inverter. I would not increase the Solar panels as you are full by midday, and when you get itchy to add panels there is room to grow. Secondly, if your battery bank was ok for your needs before, then I would leave this as is, the inverter has the ability to protect a smaller bank with an option to set a discharge limit. If your loads needs require more juice it will blend & take from the Grid or PV whichever is in abundance up to the limit. I will advise you that the MAX is on another level when compared to your old Axpert Dinosaur. It can blend power & does it with ease. You will use less electricity than before with this unit & have the 2.2kW of breathing space for the ladies over and above your current limited dinosaur. This would be my suggestion to you based on exactly what you have described. It's also a very responsible use of funds & not simply buying for the sake of it. You are meeting your requirements full stop. 87 Great news. Looks like the Axperts have moved on nicely. My want for more panels is based on a probable need for them based on the move from a house with full sun on the roof from sunrise to sunset, to a house with tall trees to east west and north. They will be much less effective there. But with 8kW of capacity I'll be good no matter how it pans out. Similarly 2 batteries serve us well until the women act up, or we get a bad day of sun. But mostly it's just bragging rights I'm losing. The extra R16k battery would have saved me about R0.80 on Eskom spend in the last 3 weeks. So payback would be a few centuries.
October 25, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, Hagu13 said: OK after reading Sarel's thread and the other comments I think I should have given more info Although the new system will be at a new house it's the same family so a lot will be the same. We're light on juice. We consume about 300kWh per month total. More in summer as we pump water for irrigation and sometimes use AC. But there's always excess generation for this. Water heating is solar supplemented by gas, cooking is gas, space heating with wood. New appliances selected for energy efficiency, LED lighting, etc. We don't select essential or non essential loads. The jacuzzi is on a changeover switch so we have the ability to run it direct from grid when we want to run the 4kW element. The daily filter cycle is run on the solar though. The whole house is on the 5kVa Axpert. We typically don't have throughput issues and we're used to shifting loads around, but more size here would mean less management of the females in the house which can be akin to herding cats at times We have a grid connection, don't want to backfeed, just want reliable electricity and low bills. We get the battery full around lunch time for 8 months of the year so beyond the point of diminishing ROI with more panels. But I'm not dead against more and would like the capacity for it in case I get bored or have money burning a hole in my pocket. We run on batteries at night and usually make it, except in winter when we're not getting them to 100% before sunset, or when the girls insist on doing an oven cooked supper after the sun has gone. 50% more battery would resolve those issues. So I really have enough but more would make things go a little smoother and require less tweaking and management. From that perspective as well I have one of those dinosaur Axperts and needed to buy a RPi and ICC to make it less dumb and more Pylontech compatible. Where are we on the newer inverters in this regard? Do I still need the same add on or can the inverters talk to apps and IOT devices directly? Thanks for the consumption figures, very similar to my own (pre-solar). Nowadays it's 340 - 380 kWh, because I can 🙂 My needs are met by a 5.5K Sunsynk, it's perfectly sized for that level consumption. My base load in the evenings varies from 250-450W, so I cycle my 10.5Kw batteries down to around 45-50%, and in the summer they are charged again by 09H30 (on a clear day) by just over 6kWp on the roof, feeding 2x (relatively) high voltage integrated MPPT controllers. It has many clever features and is extensible, for example I have wired a genny on the bi-directional Aux port, but can substitute it for a smart load if I want to. All of my loads are on essential (including heatpump), but If I decide to wire in a power monster of some sort (CNC machine / pool pump / pool heater) then I can put it on the bi-directional non-essential side. I monitor it via the Solarman WIFI dongle on my phone or web interface, but will soon get the new Sunsynk logger, which I hear is a lot better. A lot of Smarthome integration has been done by Powerforum members, but I haven't dabbled in that yet, because of time constraints. I need reliable power with the minimum fuss and bother, I don't want to sit and tweak things every 5m, although if I feel like it, I'd like to know that it's possible. My setup has served me very well for well over over a year, all that I did was add 4 panels to the original 12. Plenty of savings, for example I last bought electricity in 2020, and over the course of 5 months in winter I consumed under 10 KWh from Eskom. I do not regret the decision to go Sunsynk, it's a fire-and-forget solution, it works beautifully and it's quite possibly the wisest decision that I have made in the past 10 years.
October 25, 20214 yr One suggestion that I have not seen yet in this thread: Instead of buying one lets say 8 or 10kW inverter unit rather install two smaller units in parallel. The benefits are: the units are less loaded, therefor suffer less stress. Hopefully that will extend their live time. And - if one suffers from a failure you still have the other one running while the faulty one goes for repair. Important is that the installation makes this easy. I suggest you read about my installation in my recent posts.
October 25, 20214 yr 30 minutes ago, Beat said: One suggestion that I have not seen yet in this thread: Instead of buying one lets say 8 or 10kW inverter unit rather install two smaller units in parallel. The benefits are: the units are less loaded, therefor suffer less stress. Hopefully that will extend their live time. And - if one suffers from a failure you still have the other one running while the faulty one goes for repair. Important is that the installation makes this easy. I suggest you read about my installation in my recent posts. The ability of inverters to operate in parallel is great, and especially so if a client is 1) tied into a particular ecosystem and a forklift is costly and 2) wants to increase capacity without going through a learning curve of a totally new system (and the peripheral upgrades It sounds good in theory, but it is also contradictory (especially to your argument), because with each unit you add, unless they are cold or warm standby (which is basically a waste), it decreases the MTBF rating.
October 26, 20214 yr 16 hours ago, 87 Dream said: My suggestion to you would be to get this inverter because it's a known entity & because when you hook it up to the ICC or even the Solar Assistant with Rpi you will be able to make it smart, see & track data & remotely control the inverter. One now has to use glue, duct tape, 3rd degree blackbelt tech skills just to get simple info from your inverter! There are inverters on the market that do all this for you without you having to reinvent the wheel...Or am I wrong? I have a Goodwe, a plug and forget inverter, it provides all reports etc without any major tech skills required. It does however lack remote congif changes by the home user...But just how critical is it to be able for a homeowner to make remote config changes?
October 26, 20214 yr Sunsynk has their own new dongle ( wifi and LAN ) coming out soon that will give remote control over all the parameters and info on the inverter
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